UK - Alesha MacPhail, 6, raped & murdered, Ardbeg, Isle of Bute, Scotland, 2 Jul 2018 -teen arrested

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The POI was a friend of the family, he may have gone to the house for a smoke or a drink with friends once the pubs closed. One of the flats was a holiday let so I doubt the main door was left open. The simplest explanation would be that he was let in.
 
If a child is asphyxiated and they know that cause of death from the autopsy, it's still not clear if that means premeditated murder. So IMO that's what the police have probably been doing, trying to find out if it was planned and fully intentional. Asphyxiation can happen easily because the abductor is much stronger and they want to keep the victim quiet. TV shows give the impression cause of death is always obvious, when in reality it can take quite a bit of time to work out....unless it is really obvious and a weapon is found.
 
I don't think lack of obvious cause of death necessarily means her death was an accident or unintentional or not criminal.

Yes, we have seen these cases where the child was beaten to death, or strangled, or stabbed.

However, we have also seen positional asphyxia, when the child was unable to free themselves.

We've seen suffocation while attempting to silence and/or assault the child. We've seen intentional suffocation with a pillow.

We've seen all sorts of causes of death that didn't leave marks. I don't know the laws over there. However, in the US it's generally an additional charge if you "accidentally" kill someone in the process of committing another crime. (Rape, kidnapping, robbery, etc.)

I'm looking at prior cases like this and thinking that this death occurred during/after another crime. I just hope she did not suffer.
 
I do wonder why some people find it hard to work out why such a crime could occur?
Thinking of the most pheasable innocent answers?
Think of male, impulses, & urges and you have your answer.
 
evans242 said:
I do wonder why some people find it hard to work out why such a crime could occur?
Thinking of the most pheasable innocent answers?
Think of male, impulses, & urges and you have your answer.
Click to expand...

Sorry, I don't agree whatsoever...I'd suggest that's a severe oversimplification to the point of being offensive (suggesting that it's understandable for men to have sexual urges for children?!).

Also, suggesting that cases like this (noting we don't actually know what's happened here)...always have a sexual element (and lets all hope that's not the case).
 
MsFacetious said:
I don't think lack of obvious cause of death necessarily means her death was an accident or unintentional or not criminal.

Yes, we have seen these cases where the child was beaten to death, or strangled, or stabbed.

However, we have also seen positional asphyxia, when the child was unable to free themselves.

We've seen suffocation while attempting to silence and/or assault the child. We've seen intentional suffocation with a pillow.

We've seen all sorts of causes of death that didn't leave marks. I don't know the laws over there. However, in the US it's generally an additional charge if you "accidentally" kill someone in the process of committing another crime. (Rape, kidnapping, robbery, etc.)

I'm looking at prior cases like this and thinking that this death occurred during/after another crime. I just hope she did not suffer.
Click to expand...

I'm still catching up from yesterday, but why is it assumed that she had no marks/visible cause of death on her body?

Has this info been released? Thanks,
 
Stemcell said:
The POI was a friend of the family, he may have gone to the house for a smoke or a drink with friends once the pubs closed. One of the flats was a holiday let so I doubt the main door was left open. The simplest explanation would be that he was let in.
Click to expand...
There are two flats the upper one where the MacPhails & (Rab McPhail's girlfriend on occasion) stayed & the ground floor flat.
The entrance to the ground floor flat is the front door of the building.
Entry to the top floor flat is achieved by a stair tower at the rear
 
Bullverine said:
I'm still catching up from yesterday, but why is it assumed that she had no marks/visible cause of death on her body?

Has this info been released? Thanks,
Click to expand...

I believe it's just based on the fact that they didn't call it a murder until after the autopsy. One would think if she was beaten/stabbed/strangled/shot that it would have clearly been a murder from her discovery. Obviously that's not 100% but that's what people are interpreting right now.

Deviskan said:
Sorry, I don't agree whatsoever...I'd suggest that's a severe oversimplification to the point of being offensive (suggesting that it's understandable for men to have sexual urges for children?!).

Also, suggesting that cases like this (noting we don't actually know what's happened here)...always have a sexual element (and lets all hope that's not the case).
Click to expand...

I don't think it was meant to imply that it's normal. Simply that it's the most common and most likely motive.

I am trying really hard to come up with a case that involved a young girl killed by an unrelated teen/young adult male that was not sexually motivated.

I'm trying.... but I'm not thinking of any. I can think of a dozen but they were all sexually motivated.

Maybe someone else remembers one?
 
Hedgehog said:
That is exactly what will happen, in Britain he will NOT be locked up until he is old. And he will almost certainly get a new name.
If he does get a new name (which it's almost certain he will) with that will come police protection which will costs 100s of thousands each year. He will be guaranteed to receive social welfare payments & he will not have to jump through hoops (prove he is looking for work) that normal people do. He will literally never have to work again. BUT if he chooses to he will be allowed to work in places where families go to. No one will be warned, just as happened with one of the Bulger killers
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That's not strictly true I'm afraid, upon release - he most certainly will have hoops to jump through and will not just have an income paid to him indefinitely.



This is exactly why, as a minor, he should not be 'named and shamed' - he has only just been charged, there's been no evidence given, no trial and no guilty verdict and yet, some are already assuming the outcome.

Everyone deserves a fair trial.

Even Jon Venables and Robert Thompson deserved a fair trial, and in my opinion they did not get the trial that they should have and I for one, am glad that changes have been made so that the trial of a child/children is not turned into a blood thirsty media circus.

For anyone who has never followed a Scottish case before, do not expect to hear/read much because you'll be disappointed! Even when it's an adult accused, the Scottish legal system reveals very little, even after the verdict in many cases.
 
Hedgehog said:
There are two flats the upper one where the MacPhails & (Rab McPhail's girlfriend on occasion) stayed & the ground floor flat.
The entrance to the ground floor flat is the front door of the building.
Entry to the top floor flat is achieved by a stair tower at the rear
Click to expand...
Are you sure there are not three flats?
 
Deviskan said:
Sorry, I don't agree whatsoever...I'd suggest that's a severe oversimplification to the point of being offensive (suggesting that it's understandable for men to have sexual urges for children?!).

Also, suggesting that cases like this (noting we don't actually know what's happened here)...always have a sexual element (and lets all hope that's not the case).
Click to expand...

No! I am not stating all men have the desire!, no I'm not male bashing either.
I know what females can be capable of with regards abuse & I also know what males are capable of, wether they be adolescent or mature. & Yes it beggars belief sometimes
There are enough cases in the world to read upon.
There has been information posted in detail. I am not at liberty to repeat. But it will unfold eventually.
I don't go through life with rose tinted specs.
 
mrazda71 said:
That's not strictly true I'm afraid, upon release - he most certainly will have hoops to jump through and will not just have an income paid to him indefinitely.
Click to expand...
I respectfully disagree. They do not & will not deny an income to someone given round the clock police protection & a new identity if that person refuses to get a job. It would make it more likely that their cover would be blown if that person becomes homeless. They aren't doing it to be kind, they are doing it to avoid having to give them a new identity
Tortoise said:
Are you sure there are not three flats?
Click to expand...
Not unless it has been subdivided further.
The layout is such that it would be unlivable if the attic became a separate flat from the upper floor area. And these days I doubt you'd get it past council's planning dept.
 
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