BILL COSBY SENTENCED 3 TO 10 YEARS FOR SEXUAL ASSAULT
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UK UK - Ann Noblett, 17, Marshalls Heath, Herts, 30 Dec 1957

Discussion in 'Cold Cases' started by Robin Hood, Apr 3, 2011.

  1. Robin Hood

    Robin Hood New Member

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  2. Dreamnine

    Dreamnine New Member

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    Interesting - a case I hadn't heard of.
     
  3. wfgodot

    wfgodot Former Member

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    Good one, thanks RH. I remember reading about this long ago; when it was being wondered (still is I think) if JY had been on the verge where she was discovered since just after she went missing, I was trying to remember this case (as, if JY had been placed there later, she could have been, say, kept in a deep freeze till then) but couldn't think of it.
     
  4. Robin Hood

    Robin Hood New Member

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    On the Jo Yeates thread there was lots of discussion about whether a frozen body could be lifted easily onto the verge, seems Ann was carried 100 yards into bush. 11 stone is hell of a weight to move frozen or not but it was obviously done.
    I also noted Ann had possibly been re-dressed, I think it's possible Jo was too and it's not been released. Sexual gratification doesn't always present itself as rape and I think in Jo's case it was sexual but not in the 'norm' IYSWIM.
    I'm a believer Jo was frozen either by being left somewhere outside or in a freezer and moved when an alibi was available. The crying girl could well have been a member of VT's family knowing the timeline was moved back or forward.
    There must be hundreds of folk going to meet their maker wondering if they will be judged by a higher force and so they should.
     
  5. wfgodot

    wfgodot Former Member

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    I think I'm going with the "body wasn't in a deep-freeze - the location where found was the site of death" theory. Hard to tote 11 stone very far, and the notion of an accomplice violates Occam's Razor rule about needlessly adding new assumptions. An interesting aspect is the £1.50 found in the purse, but I believe that Scotland Yard, et al., were outthinking themselves in trying to solve this one - refrigerated trucks prowling lanes, money left so-as to avoid facing gallows, etc. It was what it was - a death after a walk - perhaps a forced one - in the wood. The biologists said the body had lain there a fortnight at least; chances are it was there the full month. Chances are she entered the car willingly and her killer was known to her. This case should have been solved.
     
  6. Robin Hood

    Robin Hood New Member

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    You could very well be correct.
    I've searched the net looking for the cause of death and can't find any reference to it, it's possible it's in the many books available on the subject.
     
  7. wishuwerehere

    wishuwerehere New Member

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    Interesting similarity to another murder noted at end of article.

    http://www.newsshopper.co.uk/news/46461.the_mystery_of_the_frozen_body/

    wfgodot: Thanks for starting a thread for Mary Kriek, UK UK ∙ Mary Kriek, 19, au pair from Holland murdered in Colchester 05 January 1958 - Websleuths Crime Sleuthing Community
     
  8. Robin Hood

    Robin Hood New Member

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    This looks like where Anne was buried, most possibly with her relatives. Note - comment on Page 2
    http://www.websleuths.com/forums/showthread.php?t=224862&page=2

    http://www.completetext.com/wheathampstead.html

    In memory of Anne Noblett 30-12-1957 aged 17
    Thomas John Noblett 25-11-1985 aged 75

    Sacred to the memory of Thomas James Noblett 16-10-1940 aged 60
    Lydia Ann Noblett 2-2-1975 aged 95
    Leonard Robert Noblett 20-9-2001 aged 87
    Enid Margaret Noblett (Peggy) beloved wife of Leonard 22-9-03 aged 85
     
  9. STANDREID

    STANDREID A slacker when slacker wasn't cool

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    That 1.5 Pounds seems like more money than a 17 y/o would need to be carrying around and that doesn't even allow for what she might have spent during her outing. This was before the Pound was devalued in the 1960s and plus inflation, that would be about 17 Pounds or $28 US today.
     
  10. STANDREID

    STANDREID A slacker when slacker wasn't cool

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    That would have been on a Monday evening the day before New Year's Eve.

    I don't know what sort of time England was on but I'm pretty sure that 6 in the evening at that time of year would have been well after dark. But, she and her friend on the scooter were still out and alone? If it was in America, this time would have been during the Christmas/New Year school break but, again, I don't know about England. Perhaps some UK posters can clear some of this up.
     
  11. STANDREID

    STANDREID A slacker when slacker wasn't cool

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    The frozen part is a puzzler. It does look like she was there for a long time but then how was she frozen? The story sounds like the weather wasn't that cold. Freezing is 32 degrees F. but that is pure water. I'm sort of guessing but it would seem that a body with all its dissolved ingredients acting as antifreeze would at least need to get down to something like 28 degrees F. to freeze solid. Maybe some forensic scientist can tell me if I'm anywhere in the ballpark.

    Edit: For what it's worth, Wiki Answers says that meat freezes at 28 degrees F so I think I'm pretty close.
     
  12. wishuwerehere

    wishuwerehere New Member

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    I’m leaning toward the idea that the murderer placed Ann’s body in the woods after the initial searches. If he was known to Ann and her family he would be privy to the areas which were searched and therefore when the timing would be right to place her body in the woods.

    To me, this also speaks to familiarity with the victim.

    Still, though, where and how did he keep the body frozen until he presumably moved it to the woods?

    http://www.watfordobserver.co.uk/nostalgia/crimelibrary/annenoblett/
     
  13. Robin Hood

    Robin Hood New Member

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  14. Robin Hood

    Robin Hood New Member

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    http://groups.yahoo.com/neo/groups/stalbansnostalgia/conversations/topics/725

    Thomas Noblett - a director of Helmets, then Wheathampstead's largest employer - notified the police. Within days Scotland Yard was called in and 300 soldiers joined the hunt. In January Mr Noblett told the Herts Advertiser that he and his wife had received so many messages of sympathy that they were completely overwhelmed and her uncle Leonard Noblett commented to the newspaper: "Since the recent unfortunate occurrence, there has been considerable agitation for lighting on that spot. People here are afraid to walk round."
     
  15. Robin Hood

    Robin Hood New Member

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    I have been looking at Ann's background. Ann wasn't just any old girl, she was the Grand daughter to a quite wealthy family who owned 'Helmets' see Pathe film link

    http://www.britishpathe.com/search/query/wheathampstead+helmets

    I'm going out with my theory about Ann. Initially I think it was thought she was kidnapped for ransom and they were half expecting she was being held somewhere.
    This, IMO, is why the murderer had to try to preserve her body. Ask yourself why anybody would go to that trouble unless they were trying to deflect the investigation to her death not being on the day she went missing.
    I think she was taken from her road by somebody travelling in the same direction and was offered a lift which she accepted, knowing the driver.
    What ever reason was given I don't know but I believe she was driven past her home and taken somewhere where an assault took place. She had to be killed because she knew her attacker and had to be silenced.
    Her body was kept left somewhere until the murderer had knowledge about what I think is the ransom theory. The murderer then realised it was in his best interest to go back to the body and try to preserve it, not realising all this would be thwarted by her digestive system.

    Whoever took Ann's life knew her and what was happening between the Police and her parents.
    I'm looking in a certain direction but until I've followed up background details about the person, his work addresses and social life I'm not yet happy to throw out another theory.


    I have been told by a poster, Wishuwerehere, that there's a book out called ''Hertfordshire casebook'' by Paul Heslop, published in 2007, the author was a Policeman for 30 years and discusses Ann's case in his book. Scroll down to the 3rd book.
    I would love him to join us here and see if he can add anything to my theory.
    http://www.rjerrard.co.uk/law/bookcastle/bookcastle.html
     
  16. wfgodot

    wfgodot Former Member

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  17. wishuwerehere

    wishuwerehere New Member

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    Hertfordshire Murders by Nicholas Connell and Ruth Straton: The Deep Freeze Death Weathampstead, 1957

    A couple of new facts (to me) I gleaned from the linked chapter:

    Anne was a student driver. (Perhaps this is how the perp convinced Anne to get inside his car; a promise to Anne to take the wheel.)

    Also, Anne was believed to have a bag of mushrooms on her person at the time of her disappaerance. However, when her body was found, the mushrooms were not at the scene. Odd, since Anne's other personal items were found with her body, i.e, glasses, purse, money. And, stranger still, the author states the mushrooms eventually turned up but doesn't say where. In the woods?
     
  18. Pipsissiway_Potts

    Pipsissiway_Potts Active Member

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  19. simviator

    simviator New Member

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    30 years ago I lived just 100 yards from where Ann disappeared. There were a couple of things the police must have taken into their investigation. 1. there was a pig farm with freezers very close to her family home. (almost next door) & 2. some years later another immediate neighbour murdered his wife and then took his own life - (there are only a small handfull of properties there - maybe 6 or 8). They had a son who then lived with his grandparents (who I knew.)
    Of course I don't know - but locals always said she had been in the pig freezer and that the police had not investigated properly at all - some locals said they wondered about all kinds of things!
     
  20. outlines

    outlines New Member

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