GUILTY UK - Bernadette Walker, 17, left parent's car, Peterborough, 21 July 2020 *Arrests* #5

[hellobear]

Do you think it could be a control thing? That she always needed to be in control and decide when and if Scott would leave the house, maybe depending on how things panned out with her new boyfriend and the paternity issues, and suddenly Bee's report was going to usurp her position of power?

I mean I do think SaW's reaction after Bee's murder was not normal for a mother, so whilst evil might not be the best descriptor, certainly I think there were deep issues with her relationships to her children, and the detachment and all the scheming and lies and manipulation, as well as her narcissism, would point to sociopathic personality traits which wouldn't have suddenly sprung last year. These traits would have been responsible for people thinking she was previously a good mother whereas that would have been part of the show. I think it's not helpful to try to understand her just in terms of her being a mother and with that trying to fit her into any kind of mould. I think she just didn't genuinely care about anyone but herself and once anyone stopped being of use or service to her (ie a reason she could be praised) they were history. It's the constant manipulation, as a way of life, that leaves people in the inner circle in disbelief, shock and denial, because that means they have to question their own judgement, I think, and their part in enabling the abuser. I see her as an abuser, I think she is abusing her oldest children right now. I think Bee's report threatened to remove the castle that Sarah had built over years, where she had 'standing', where everything was a sham and others were keeping the show going. I think everything had to be done and was done on Sarah's terms. So the question what did she have to gain is better asked as what did she have to lose, IMO.

Only my opinion from following true crime and premeditated murders at WS, not a professional opinion.

Very well said. I have been thinking this way about SaW from very early on but could not quite convey it the way you have.

There is definitely some cluster B disorders going on there with SaW IMO

 

[MissMarbles]

Very well said. I have been thinking this way about SaW from very early on but could not quite convey it the way you have.

There is definitely some cluster B disorders going on there with SaW IMO

Personality disorders are very interesting, but a little confusing in that from what I can make out there is a degree of overlap between different ones, and someone might not meet all the criteria for a single diagnosis either. Some people might have narcissistic traits, but I wonder if that means they would therefore have a disorder

 

[SaintMoore]

despite Hearing from the wife of Scott and what has come from Sarah which anything from her can be covered in a grey cloud could there be an argument that Sarah was in fact the controlling one?

There doesn't have to be "A" controlling one.
People are controlling in different ways

 

[Agent Startled]

That is very interesting,thanks for posting .

What two memories did you have last year?

What type of land is it where you think police should search: fields,woodland ,ponds, private or public....

Have you had a look yourself?

Long post which I hope covers off your questions.

Too scared to look myself and my family have begged me not to.
I have given police the three word references to the exact locations (x2). Not sure I should post them here though. One is a Triangle of thick shrubbery at the side of the road and the other is a layby a quarter of a mile further a long the same stretch of road.

One memory is from last July, around the time schools were finishing for the summer. I noticed a pair of well worn, white but grubby looking ladies trainers discarded in the shrubbery. The trainers were quite a way apart and further into the bushes I noticed what I would call a swim bag (drawstring type) I drive by the are 4-6 times a day and remember thinking i should stop and retrieve the items as they might be a childs PE kit that's been thrown out of a school bus as a prank. They were there for 4-5 days and then I don't remember seeing them anymore - the shrub/hedges had grown over them,

The other memory is not nice and I'm too scared to google if its relevant. At the start of this year I stopped in the layby along the same stretch of road to get rid of old coffee cups out of my car (there is always 3 wheelie bins in this layby) as I got out of my car the stench was like nothing I'd ever smelt before, it made me gag..I assumed the smell must be coming from the bins but when I opened the lid it didn't smell at all, the stench was coming from under the hedges. I looked under there into the shrub and saw a selection of old children's garden toys that had been dumped, and further in layers of plastic groundsheets. This was about 8 foot in and i would need to crawl to explore, so chose not to. When I got back into the car and told my teenage son, he said it was probably just a dead badger and a bit of flytipping.

I hope to goodness the first memory is what i thought at the time, a kids PE kit tossed out of a school bus, and hopefully someone can tell me a body would not smell for that long (8/9 months)!

I'm disappointed the police have not followed up this information yet,

Interestingly when i look at the map of the search sites I live in the bit that has not been searched, so maybe i'm way off track with the other info the police have. To me it looks like a number 9 on the map and if you joined the tail up to make it an 8 that is the stretch of road they mention they are believed to have travelled - and where ScW lived previously - the road I'm talking about.

Just want her found, I'm new here so if I have broken any rules please let me know asap, I don't want to get into trouble.

 

[Skigh]

Long post which I hope covers off your questions.

Too scared to look myself and my family have begged me not to.
I have given police the three word references to the exact locations (x2). Not sure I should post them here though. One is a Triangle of thick shrubbery at the side of the road and the other is a layby a quarter of a mile further a long the same stretch of road.

One memory is from last July, around the time schools were finishing for the summer. I noticed a pair of well worn, white but grubby looking ladies trainers discarded in the shrubbery. The trainers were quite a way apart and further into the bushes I noticed what I would call a swim bag (drawstring type) I drive by the are 4-6 times a day and remember thinking i should stop and retrieve the items as they might be a childs PE kit that's been thrown out of a school bus as a prank. They were there for 4-5 days and then I don't remember seeing them anymore - the shrub/hedges had grown over them,

The other memory is not nice and I'm too scared to google if its relevant. At the start of this year I stopped in the layby along the same stretch of road to get rid of old coffee cups out of my car (there is always 3 wheelie bins in this layby) as I got out of my car the stench was like nothing I'd ever smelt before, it made me gag..I assumed the smell must be coming from the bins but when I opened the lid it didn't smell at all, the stench was coming from under the hedges. I looked under there into the shrub and saw a selection of old children's garden toys that had been dumped, and further in layers of plastic groundsheets. This was about 8 foot in and i would need to crawl to explore, so chose not to. When I got back into the car and told my teenage son, he said it was probably just a dead badger and a bit of flytipping.

I hope to goodness the first memory is what i thought at the time, a kids PE kit tossed out of a school bus, and hopefully someone can tell me a body would not smell for that long (8/9 months)!

I'm disappointed the police have not followed up this information yet,

Interestingly when i look at the map of the search sites I live in the bit that has not been searched, so maybe i'm way off track with the other info the police have. To me it looks like a number 9 on the map and if you joined the tail up to make it an 8 that is the stretch of road they mention they are believed to have travelled - and where ScW lived previously - the road I'm talking about.

Just want her found, I'm new here so if I have broken any rules please let me know asap, I don't want to get into trouble.

Thanks so much for your detailed reply. I do hope the police do now follow up on this information.
You have done as much as you possibly can by providing exact locations for what you saw.

 

[cherryautumn]

dbm (not sure if sharing google maps location is allowed)

 

[mspuurfect]

Long post which I hope covers off your questions.

Too scared to look myself and my family have begged me not to.
I have given police the three word references to the exact locations (x2). Not sure I should post them here though. One is a Triangle of thick shrubbery at the side of the road and the other is a layby a quarter of a mile further a long the same stretch of road.

One memory is from last July, around the time schools were finishing for the summer. I noticed a pair of well worn, white but grubby looking ladies trainers discarded in the shrubbery. The trainers were quite a way apart and further into the bushes I noticed what I would call a swim bag (drawstring type) I drive by the are 4-6 times a day and remember thinking i should stop and retrieve the items as they might be a childs PE kit that's been thrown out of a school bus as a prank. They were there for 4-5 days and then I don't remember seeing them anymore - the shrub/hedges had grown over them,

The other memory is not nice and I'm too scared to google if its relevant. At the start of this year I stopped in the layby along the same stretch of road to get rid of old coffee cups out of my car (there is always 3 wheelie bins in this layby) as I got out of my car the stench was like nothing I'd ever smelt before, it made me gag..I assumed the smell must be coming from the bins but when I opened the lid it didn't smell at all, the stench was coming from under the hedges. I looked under there into the shrub and saw a selection of old children's garden toys that had been dumped, and further in layers of plastic groundsheets. This was about 8 foot in and i would need to crawl to explore, so chose not to. When I got back into the car and told my teenage son, he said it was probably just a dead badger and a bit of flytipping.

I hope to goodness the first memory is what i thought at the time, a kids PE kit tossed out of a school bus, and hopefully someone can tell me a body would not smell for that long (8/9 months)!

I'm disappointed the police have not followed up this information yet,

Interestingly when i look at the map of the search sites I live in the bit that has not been searched, so maybe i'm way off track with the other info the police have. To me it looks like a number 9 on the map and if you joined the tail up to make it an 8 that is the stretch of road they mention they are believed to have travelled - and where ScW lived previously - the road I'm talking about.

Just want her found, I'm new here so if I have broken any rules please let me know asap, I don't want to get into trouble.

This is great information @Agent Startled so glad you have told the police - it could of been a dead badger but it could of been B! Are you meaning the road 'Littleworth Drove'?

I've always said any clue is a good clue in this as we all would agree finding B is literally like looking for a needle in a haystack, we all just want her found so everything helps! Thanks for posting

 

[Agent Startled]

This is great information @Agent Startled so glad you have told the police - it could of been a dead badger but it could of been B! Are you meaning the road 'Littleworth Drove'?

I've always said any clue is a good clue in this as we all would agree finding B is literally like looking for a needle in a haystack, we all just want her found so everything helps! Thanks for posting

Hi, Yes I spoke to a police call centre (101) they took it very seriously and said it was right to report it, they said they would pass to detectives and to expect a call,,,,nothing so far..and they haven't been to search yet, as far as I can tell, (I frequently drive by the two locations)

The road is a strange one, some call it littleworth, others call it Main Rd Deeping St Nicholas and i believe it is officially the A1175 and others call it the old Spalding Rd!

 

[CSIAngus]

Long post which I hope covers off your questions.

Too scared to look myself and my family have begged me not to.
I have given police the three word references to the exact locations (x2). Not sure I should post them here though. One is a Triangle of thick shrubbery at the side of the road and the other is a layby a quarter of a mile further a long the same stretch of road.

One memory is from last July, around the time schools were finishing for the summer. I noticed a pair of well worn, white but grubby looking ladies trainers discarded in the shrubbery. The trainers were quite a way apart and further into the bushes I noticed what I would call a swim bag (drawstring type) I drive by the are 4-6 times a day and remember thinking i should stop and retrieve the items as they might be a childs PE kit that's been thrown out of a school bus as a prank. They were there for 4-5 days and then I don't remember seeing them anymore - the shrub/hedges had grown over them,

The other memory is not nice and I'm too scared to google if its relevant. At the start of this year I stopped in the layby along the same stretch of road to get rid of old coffee cups out of my car (there is always 3 wheelie bins in this layby) as I got out of my car the stench was like nothing I'd ever smelt before, it made me gag..I assumed the smell must be coming from the bins but when I opened the lid it didn't smell at all, the stench was coming from under the hedges. I looked under there into the shrub and saw a selection of old children's garden toys that had been dumped, and further in layers of plastic groundsheets. This was about 8 foot in and i would need to crawl to explore, so chose not to. When I got back into the car and told my teenage son, he said it was probably just a dead badger and a bit of flytipping.

I hope to goodness the first memory is what i thought at the time, a kids PE kit tossed out of a school bus, and hopefully someone can tell me a body would not smell for that long (8/9 months)!

I'm disappointed the police have not followed up this information yet,

Interestingly when i look at the map of the search sites I live in the bit that has not been searched, so maybe i'm way off track with the other info the police have. To me it looks like a number 9 on the map and if you joined the tail up to make it an 8 that is the stretch of road they mention they are believed to have travelled - and where ScW lived previously - the road I'm talking about.

Just want her found, I'm new here so if I have broken any rules please let me know asap, I don't want to get into trouble.

I think it highly unlikely that a body left out in the open from the middle of Summer to 8/9 months later would still be giving off decomposition stench. Much more likely to be dead wildlife. I also do not believe that BW was left out in the open. The intention was for her never to be found.

I also think it highly unlikely that BW would have a school PE bag when she was attending an FE College. She had a backpack which was found in ScW's lockup. White trainers do not appear to be her goth style of dress. She was reported to have been wearing all black with a denim jacket.

The prosecution believe BW was murdered sometime between being picked up by ScW and ScW switching his mobile back on. When ScW switched his mobile off it was in the Gunthorpe telecom mast area and he was traveling east. If we are looking for a location for her disposal, it will be out east within a mile or two either side of the A47. It's also possible that he was traveling east on the B1443 but this also joins the A47.

MOO

 

[Bxo]

Any more news on this?

Apologies only just seen this! No further news as far as I know other than the article posted earlier saying the police are receiving information. Will have a look though!

 

[Agent Startled]

I think it highly unlikely that a body left out in the open from the middle of Summer to 8/9 months later would still be giving off decomposition stench. Much more likely to be dead wildlife. I also do not believe that BW was left out in the open. The intention was for her never to be found.

I also think it highly unlikely that BW would have a school PE bag when she was attending an FE College. She had a backpack which was found in ScW's lockup. White trainers do not appear to be her goth style of dress. She was reported to have been wearing all black with a denim jacket.

The prosecution believe BW was murdered sometime between being picked up by ScW and ScW switching his mobile back on. When ScW switched his mobile off it was in the Gunthorpe telecom mast area and he was traveling east. If we are looking for a location for her disposal, it will be out east within a mile or two either side of the A47. It's also possible that he was traveling east on the B1443 but this also joins the A47.

MOO

Hi, I appreciate your thoughts on the items but not sure you're thinking along the same lines as me.
I stated I thought it was a PE kit at the time, not that it definitely was and anyway who's to say SCW or Bee didn't discard these items out of the window - getting rid of evidence, what if he quite liked a young girl dressed in her old PE Kit?! yuk to think of I know. My son is 16 and only just stopped wearing his school kit!

On the Find My sister FB group a friend of the family (they said they were anyway) told me B was reported to be wearing black boots at the time of her disappearance, when i looked into this, the information was provided by what i would now consider a highly unreliable withess - SAW!

My sons GF (16) is a bit goth and sometimes turns up here in the style of trainers I saw, if they'r e planning on going for a walk or even just slobbing about watching TV. Bee had been at her Nans house the night before I dont think wearing her best goth outfit was her top priority, comfort would have been important to her too.

Also your thoughts on when and where the act occurred are interesting, I'm thinking the act and the disposal are two different locations at two different times.

From all you've read wouldn't you agree the phone was switched off for (i think this is right) 2 hrs 20mins or 1 hr 22mins the night the two, SAW and SCW travelled to Cowbit? I also read from the trial notes they are believed to have driven past my house on the main rd the night of the weird 3am outing to COwbit and Applegreen.

As for the stench, i really do not want to google it and as i mentioned it was not out in the open completely it (the sheets of tarpaulin/plastic groundsheets) were hidden under bushes about 8 foot set back into the bushes at the side of the layby. Plus i find it interesting that SAW slipped when she said something along the lines of "My B is scared of the dark i don't want her left out in the open...." not the exact words but similar.

Of course I hope you're correct and it doesn't fit but i definitely think its worth the police having a look. I have a very strong feeling.

This post is MOO and includes some info that could/hopefully just be my imagination working overtime,

 

[PharaohMark]

I haven’t posted here in a long time, but have certainly been following it closely.

I live in Gunthorpe, close to the Harrier pub that Scott claimed he sat in the car park of reading the paper and sleeping.

I also regularly walk my dog near to the Barn Garden Centre along a dyke that runs behind the car park to the Barn. I normally walk in the late evening when it is dusk, and in the past few weeks decided to have a bit of a closer look at different parts of it. In my opinion, ScW would have had no trouble in hiding B in any number of locations within that area. As someone has previously said, there is often a horse here, left by a local group of travellers, which I know was mentioned by Scw in his story. As has also previously been stated, these sort of areas change a lot over time and the foliage and ground layer plants will have changed quite considerably, which would be easy to conceal even a thinly buried body. There is also a sort of gate at the end of the dyke (I have attached pictures), which if physically able, ScW could have carries BW down to, especially in summer when the water would have been very low.

I have also attached a picture of the other end of the dyke, near a bridge at Cuckoo’s Hollow, which would also be easily accessible.

The police have already seemed to be aware of this area, so I haven’t reported this further.

 

[Agent Startled]

Hey PharohMark

This is really interesting, the horse thing especially, I was thinking Peakirk for the horses thing as its so close to Mcdonalds.. He would need balls of steel to carry a dead girl in daylight on a Staurday though. I agree with you on the ditches and dykes, there are loads and they are ever changing with vegetation growing rapidly especially during July. Do you believe the night they drove by mine (DSN) was purely to try and trick authorities into thinking she'd run away to her ex boyfriends? Or do you think they were dumping evidence, phones items, or even her body?
Are you surprised like me that there isn't more outrage locally about it and you'd imagine teams of people out searching? If it was my child I wouldn't let it be so quiet - IMO SAW doesn't want her found and is manipulating siblings into thinking she is still alive.

MOO, just my thoughts after reading MSM and great work by the people on here, timelines etc

 

[Tortoise]

Hi, I appreciate your thoughts on the items but not sure you're thinking along the same lines as me.
I stated I thought it was a PE kit at the time, not that it definitely was and anyway who's to say SCW or Bee didn't discard these items out of the window - getting rid of evidence, what if he quite liked a young girl dressed in her old PE Kit?! yuk to think of I know. My son is 16 and only just stopped wearing his school kit!

On the Find My sister FB group a friend of the family (they said they were anyway) told me B was reported to be wearing black boots at the time of her disappearance, when i looked into this, the information was provided by what i would now consider a highly unreliable withess - SAW!

My sons GF (16) is a bit goth and sometimes turns up here in the style of trainers I saw, if they'r e planning on going for a walk or even just slobbing about watching TV. Bee had been at her Nans house the night before I dont think wearing her best goth outfit was her top priority, comfort would have been important to her too.

Also your thoughts on when and where the act occurred are interesting, I'm thinking the act and the disposal are two different locations at two different times.

From all you've read wouldn't you agree the phone was switched off for (i think this is right) 2 hrs 20mins or 1 hr 22mins the night the two, SAW and SCW travelled to Cowbit? I also read from the trial notes they are believed to have driven past my house on the main rd the night of the weird 3am outing to COwbit and Applegreen.

As for the stench, i really do not want to google it and as i mentioned it was not out in the open completely it (the sheets of tarpaulin/plastic groundsheets) were hidden under bushes about 8 foot set back into the bushes at the side of the layby. Plus i find it interesting that SAW slipped when she said something along the lines of "My B is scared of the dark i don't want her left out in the open...." not the exact words but similar.

Of course I hope you're correct and it doesn't fit but i definitely think its worth the police having a look. I have a very strong feeling.

This post is MOO and includes some info that could/hopefully just be my imagination working overtime,

Certainly I think the lay-by is a very good contender for the disposal of Bee's phone.

They left Applegreen services at 1:19am having been there for 2 minutes. Perhaps they were looking to dispose of it there but saw the CCTV so decided to not get out of the car.

Then at 1:29am Bee's phone disconnected. So one can presume that they had driven along the A1175 for 10 minutes, and I notice there are speed cameras on that route. Google maps says it is an 11 minute drive from Applegreen to the lay-by, 7.2 miles.

At 1:32am, so 13 minutes after leaving Applegreen, they are parked (perhaps they sat in the car and waited a few minutes before getting out because there was a passing motorist and they didn't want to be seen) and Sarah gets out of the car for 5 minutes, walking 33 steps. Say 16/17 steps out and 16/17 steps back. If she threw it in one of the bins she has no idea whether it will be spotted and fished out by another motorist, or when the bins ar emptied. I think there is a good chance she might have thrown it into the thicket instead and it's worth a search. 16/17 steps and 5 minutes seems like too many if they parked up beside the bins. And we have no idea if Scott also got out of the car but left his phone in the car so his steps weren't recorded.

At 1:37am Sarah is back in the car and at 1:49am they pass the camera at Glinton. So they didn't linger at the lay-by longer than 5 minutes.

I'd be very surprised if police didn't already thoroughly search this lay-by, after their arrests. It seems remiss if they didn't do the same drive that Sarah and Scott did that night, knowing the timings and the steps recorded. Perhaps a volunteer team could do a search of the undergrowth there. Why would she walk 33 steps if it was just to the bin and back? It's here I believe on streetview : Google Maps

and google maps overhead view : Google Maps

The only point against this being the disposal site for the body is that there is 1hr 20mins unexplained after they drove past Glinton, and if they drove east in that time, which seems highly likely, it matches with him driving east when he murdered Bee on the Saturday. It's hard to think what they were doing if they weren't going to her disposal/burial site.

MOO

 

[Agent Startled]

Hi, Yes the picture of the location is correct but that is an old view, there are 3 bins there now. It also does not show the gaps in the hedges where people flytip all sorts of stuff, Its like a cave of junk if you bend down and look in. I'm 99% certain that layby has not been searched. Thanks for being so great with the timings. I'm not sure if you're local? but it is well known there is a triangular route to Cowbit , the old rd sort of runs parallels to the new road. Are you saying after glinton there is an hour and half of unknown activity? could they have driven round in a loop, like you would when trying to get a baby to sleep? or when you're trying to confuse the phone pings?


5 mins is enough time to roll the body into the hedges, I can imagine SAW stood at the edge on look out and ScW on his knees doing the dirty work. As you say if ScW phone in car nothing recorded for him, the layby is pretty long so SAW step count is plausible i think.

edited by me to actually answer the questions asked in previous post.
All moo and I just want her found, to think of her in a ditch or in those bushes is heartbreaking.

 

[Tortoise]

Hi, Yes the picture of the location is correct but that is an old view, there are 3 bins there now. It also does not show the gaps in the hedges where people flytip all sorts of stuff, Its like a cave of junk if you bend down and look in. I'm 99% certain that layby has not been searched. Thanks for being so great with the timings. I'm not sure if you're local? but it is well known there is a triangular route to Cowbit , the old rd sort of runs parallels to the new road. Are you saying after glinton there is an hour and half of unknown activity? could they have driven round in a loop, like you would when trying to get a baby to sleep? or when you're trying to confuse the phone pings?

All moo and I just want her found, to think of her in a ditch or in those bushes is heartbreaking.

No I'm not local. Yes, after Glinton roundabout there is 1hr 20mins of unknown activity until they arrive back home. All phones off, so not trying to confuse the pings because there is no record. The only problem I can see with them doing a circular route is they would have been picked up on the cameras they were caught on the first time round. It seems they might have gone east on the A47 after Glinton, IMO.

 

[Agent Startled]

Ah, ok thanks, which cameras are you referring to? are you thinking speed cameras? not sure if this map helps portray the loop i'm thinking of, not sure how to upload an image, so hopefully it works!

 

[Agent Startled]

Also, as a local myself it is worth pointing out you do not drive into the village of glinton for Mcdonalds, it is located on the crossover of the A15 and the B1443, plausible that they could drive along Werrington parkway and turn off At A16 back to Crowland, which is why i'm thinking loop. The other thing i think is important is that SCW is reported to have previously lived in DSNicholas meaning he knows how quiet it is out here at 3am. Anyhow i'm sure you know all this

All MOO

 

[Tortoise]

They were caught on the average speed camera on the A16 before Crowland water tower, and ANPR cameras on the A1175 near Market Deeping and again on the A15 at Glinton.

 

[CSIAngus]

My understanding of the evidence is that the murder of BW is likely to have taken place within the first window of opportunity after ScW picked up BW from the grandparents followed by a temporary disposal. This is the prosecution view - "Did you leave her where you killed her, Mr Walker?"; "No". ScW was on the east side of Peterborough traveling east when he switched his phone off.

In the early hours of the next day, ScW's phone does not leave a location (presumed hidden in a bush or hedge) on the east edge of the town in the vacinity of Uldale Way, affording easy access out to the east (Harrier pub car park has often been cited, including by me). This was the second window of opportunity and allowed for the full disposal of the body. On this basis, I believe that we should be looking at a location east of Peterborough and within driving range of the known times.

The Apple Garage road trip in the early hours of the next day was to lay a false trail that BW might be in the Spalding area. They may well have stopped at the layby cited above, as the timings fit, which would be a very good location for disposing of items is a public bin, and long gone before the Police had even begun to look. There then follows a further window that night when I believe ScW will have shown SaW the burial site. The road trip out to Kings Lynn, again out east, a few days later may have been to eyeball the burial location and allay their fears that ScW's activity had been noticed.

MOO