UK UK - Billie-Jo Jenkins, 13, Hastings, Sussex, 15 Feb 1997

[Kaykedi]

Depends which side of the case you're on. It was evidence for the prosecution. The defence relied on the blood from the nostril to explain it. I believe this is being re-examined to see if the spatter on SJ's clothes contains any bone tissue. If it does that would suggest spatter directly from blunt force impact, i.e. SJ would have to be at the scene when the attack took place. I'm sure that evidence would be contested also.

Thank you, most helpful of you

 

[Mrs Marple]

If SJ noticed the bubble in her nose then he DID look. He saw there was proof of life, surely? Or at least it was worth trying to resuscitate her.

 

[Tortoise]

If SJ noticed the bubble in her nose then he DID look. He saw there was proof of life, surely? Or at least it was worth trying to resuscitate her.

I suppose that depends on whether he is suspected of inserting the plastic in her nostril.

 

[Kaykedi]

If SJ noticed the bubble in her nose then he DID look. He saw there was proof of life, surely? Or at least it was worth trying to resuscitate her.

Agree. Most likely Billy Liar was at it again! Did you see the documentary Mrs Marple?

 

[Kasmeer]

Just caught up on the documentary,very interesting indeed, and seemed to cover the points well (at least, it sounded fair, not that I know enough about the case to know if anything got missed but nobody here is saying "they ignored X" so I assume it's not too bad!), although I wasn't overly keen on the actor's way of speaking sounding as though it was intended to make SJ's thoughts sound as self-serving and unreliable as possible; I'd prefer a neutral tone to make it easier to make my own mind up as to how much credence to give his words.

Overall I was left understanding well how it ended in a hung jury - while I can well see how people believe he did it, and I'm leaning that way myself, there are questions which the defence side can play up in his favour. I do find it very odd that such a violent frenzied attack apparently resulted in zero visible blood, only a fine spray? I'm no blood spatter expert, but it's not what I'd expect to hear; I can certainly accept that it's possible, but I don't think I could find it 100% convincing as evidence. Now, if there really is bone matter in the blood, that is a whole other matter, and the final trial absolutely should have been delayed to allow that evidence to be included; it may well have tipped the balance!

The plastic in the nose is just plain weird - why?? That one makes a lot more sense if the other guy is involved - yes, I get that the timing was meant to be impossible, but how accurate are people's recollections of timings? I don't think there was as much CCTV coverage back in 1997 to verify timings so well, so it's entirely possible that people being slightly mistaken could leave a window of opportunity.

Meanwhile the SJ timeline left me a little confused as it wasn't really defined, just a vague mention (I think from the defence side) of him only having 2-3 minutes opportunity, which sounds a bit short to me - not impossible, but rather short to go in the house, become enraged, bludgeon your daughter to death, while somehow not getting covered in blood, stuff some plastic up her nose (while still not getting any blood on your hands, or else while having enough time to wash them on the way out), regain full composure and go back out again, acting like nothing happened. I'd be interested to know if there's any source giving a clear timeline anywhere to see how much was actually available (or might have been available) to him, preferably with outside sources, not just what SJ says.

I certainly lean towards his guilt based on the various points about his personality, his having the opportunity, his odd behaviour about driving around and then sitting in the car after Billie was found, etc etc, but those three points are real questionss in my mind, and those are probably what led to the trials failing. I do hope enough evidence can eventually be found to prove it one way or another, as justice has not been done.

 

[Little Nicki]

As much as I found the documentary pretty persuasive, I've always been in the SJ innocent camp an still am. I just can't get my head around the fact that he is supposed to have exploded with so much rage that he attacked a young teenage girl in his back garden by repeatedly beating her her with a tent peg, so violently that she died of her injuries - Yet his other 2 daughter were stood just feet away, waiting by/in the car for him - and they didn't hear a thing? That and the no obvious blood spatter? I'm just not buying it, they would of heard SOMETHING.

 

[Kaykedi]

As much as I found the documentary pretty persuasive, I've always been in the SJ innocent camp an still am. I just can't get my head around the fact that he is supposed to have exploded with so much rage that he attacked a young teenage girl in his back garden by repeatedly beating her her with a tent peg, so violently that she died of her injuries - Yet his other 2 daughter were stood just feet away, waiting by/in the car for him - and they didn't hear a thing? That and the no obvious blood spatter? I'm just not buying it, they would of heard SOMETHING.

Hi Little Nicki. Reading your post I can appreciate your opinion, but, I do question if SJ didn't kill Billie Jo, who did? Who would know that she was home alone? Who would know about that available window of time? Who would want to go to that property, at that time to kill an innocent young girl?

 

[Little Nicki]

Hi Little Nicki. Reading your post I can appreciate your opinion, but, I do question if SJ didn't kill Billie Jo, who did? Who would know that she was home alone? Who would know about that available window of time? Who would want to go to that property, at that time to kill an innocent young girl?

Perhaps the 'prowler' who had previously been reported and extra security measures installed because of? Maybe someone from the empty building/flat conversions next door? I still think it's possible that the guy with the plastic fetish was involved. If a couple of those witnesses who saw him were out with their timelines, (a perfectly possible human mistake to make - remember we didn't all have smart phones etc... back then so it was not as easy to retrace yr steps as these days), then his alibi wouldn't stand. Let's not forget the police and media focused on SJ from almost the very beginning so who's to say what other leads weren't properly investigated?

I just honestly don't see how the daughters wouldn't of heard at least a raised voice or something. Even if they were IN the car, the roof was down so they would of heard any noise - they was literally a few feet and some fresh air between them and the back of the house.

 

[Mrs Marple]

@Kaykedi l did see it, yes.

<modsnip>

I can't fathom the plastic up he nose but l do think this; it was vicious and it was persona

 

[ryan2032]

I thought one of the daughters went into the house and spoke to Billie and said she was playing music? Then the father told her to go back to the car? If music was playing maybe that's why both daughters heard nothing. How come both daughters went to the shop to get something as simple as white spirit? I'm not sure of the ages of the other 2 daughters? Could they not have stayed at home?

I also read there was a 10 minute and in that window SJ drove past his own house.

 

[ekardh]

Did the recent documentary mention SJ’s little tale about the killer posing as a plain clothes officer to console him at the crime scene?

 

[Kaykedi]

Did the recent documentary mention SJ’s little tale about the killer posing as a plain clothes officer to console him at the crime scene?

Yes, it did. Never heard anything like it!

 

[markymark2022]

Sorry to be coming to this discussion rather late, but this case is one that I remember well at the time, and which I've followed developments on, over the years. I have only just seen the documentary, however.

This case is very multi-faceted. It's a case I feel so torn about, as I find myself in the rare position of finding both the 'case for' and the 'case against' very convincing; indeed, there are points on either side which have me almost nodding or shaking my head, thinking, "he definitely did/didn't do it."

In my mind, there are a couple of things which need more clarification. I heard from a few sources that four significant witness statements were disregarded by police at the time, as they insisted that they had "their man" (i.e. Sion Jenkins). One of which was a report of a man covered in blood and paint, seen running from the direction of the crime scene. If this was true (and it's an 'if'), then surely Jenkins is innocent, as that's simply too much of a coincidence; under what other circumstances does someone run around with paint AND blood on them?

Secondly, the much-talked-about 'plastic bag' guy. From what I gather, his social worker refused for him to be questioned by police, owing to his state of psychosis; but, surely, at least ultimately, that was a reason TO question him? I have heard that the police say that he was "ruled out forensically", but that this didn't extend beyond testing the clothes he was wearing TWO DAYS LATER (which might have not even been the same ones as he was wearing on the day of the murder). Surely he should have been considered a prime suspect, given his psychosis (he attacked a police officer who tried to arrest him, in the wake of the murder) and the 'plastic bag' similarity?

So many question marks.....

 

[markymark2022]

One other thing to note is that the house had a long front garden, and was elevated above the road, but with no off-road parking; which would have meant that sounds coming from the back garden wouldn't have reached the other girls stood by the car (i.e. on the road, and some distance from the back garden) as easily as would have been the case for a house with a more typically-sized frontage.

However, not hearing SCREAMS would still be unlikely. The only explanation for that would be if she was hit and knocked out in one go, without even a scream; which is more likely if it WAS Jenkins, as he could be behind her without her suspecting anything (unlike an intruder, who would likely find it hard to sneak up behind her, and thus a struggle and screams would be more likely), and could take aim more carefully. Of course, if it wasn't Jenkins, this factor isn't as relevant, as the girls wouldn't have been around to hear the screams anyway; but then, wouldn't NEIGHBOURS have heard screams (the one neighbour was in when Sion later summoned her)?

 

[markymark2022]

Yes, it did. Never heard anything like it!

Did the recent documentary mention SJ’s little tale about the killer posing as a plain clothes officer to console him at the crime scene?

What I find craziest about this, is that he effectively is undermining the credibility of another potential suspect, as well as someone described in a witness statement: namely, that 'Mr B' and someone described by a witness as running in the area, covered in paint and blood.

He is effectively saying that he doesn't think that the murder was the work of the two other people, and is thus shining the spotlight on himself.

 

[Bickles]

One other thing to note is that the house had a long front garden, and was elevated above the road, but with no off-road parking; which would have meant that sounds coming from the back garden wouldn't have reached the other girls stood by the car (i.e. on the road, and some distance from the back garden) as easily as would have been the case for a house with a more typically-sized frontage.

However, not hearing SCREAMS would still be unlikely. The only explanation for that would be if she was hit and knocked out in one go, without even a scream; which is more likely if it WAS Jenkins, as he could be behind her without her suspecting anything (unlike an intruder, who would likely find it hard to sneak up behind her, and thus a struggle and screams would be more likely), and could take aim more carefully. Of course, if it wasn't Jenkins, this factor isn't as relevant, as the girls wouldn't have been around to hear the screams anyway; but then, wouldn't NEIGHBOURS have heard screams (the one neighbour was in when Sion later summoned her)?

I agree, I have often found the info on this case conflicting and am quite torn about Sion.

If Billie-Jo had some music on, it may have been easier for someone to sneak up behind her and deliver a fatal blow. Does anyone know if there was music playing? Most teens would.

Plastic bag man is a concern, imho, and there was mention in the recent documentary that Billie-Jo was concerned she was being watched/followed.

 

[markymark2022]

This is it, there are so many facets to this case.

I have actually heard that she DID have music playing, and Sion said he had turned it down, yet denied having seen Billie when he did so (unlikely-sounding, given that she was painting the patio doors to the room the music would have been playing in, however).

And yes, there are many reports - and confirmed by Lois, his wife, and neighbours - that Billie had feared having been stalked, as well as there having been prowlers in the neighbourhood, and even their garden, as well as, albeit from Sion, of someone staring intently at their house. This strange, highly disturbing behaviour could well have been part of a lead-up for someone to do something very bad to Billie.

I have also heard convincing rebuttals of two points for the 'prosecution', namely that he took a long route to the Do It All, and that he went to a place that wasn't the closest shop to buy white spirit from.

Someone from Hastings has said that Lower Park Road, where they lived, was a road almost impossible to do a three-point turn on; so going the long way round could be something he always did.

Regarding the choice of shop, the Do It All had free parking, whereas the other shop apparently didn't have plentiful parking spaces in its vicinity, and parking charges could have applied; I often use stores further away, on this basis.

Additionally, the prosecution claimed that being aware of the opportunity to access Billie on her own was unlikely. However, given that they lived opposite a park, I say it wasn't. Living opposite a park can make for a lovely view, but, as someone who lives opposite a park, it can have its downsides, even in a nice area. Although it's not on the scale of MURDER, my house has had youths throwing apples at its windows, and there is often drug-taking going on, and mentally unwell people about.

A person so inclined - and Billie had reported being stalked - could easily keep watch from the park, and wait until he'd seen everyone else he knew to be living in the house, go out. Although he likely wouldn't know that she was actually outside, on the patio, he could have been aiming to break in and kill her - who knows?

I do admit that Sion sitting in his car, waiting for the ambulance seems suspect, and quite possibly a likely tactic to explain any blood droplets found later in the car. On the other hand, he could quite possibly have wanted to ensure that the ambulance found the right house, and might have found that waiting in his car gave him that tiny bit more privacy at a distressing time, than standing on the pavement, on a busy road, would have done. That said, didn't he actually claim it was to put the roof of the car up? God, this case makes one's head hurt!

I would still love to know more about the dismissed witness statement of someone covered in blood and paint reported to have been seen running in the area. If this IS true, than there's surely no doubt that it was that person, rather than Sion; how many people does one tend to see, running around covered in blood and paint???

 

[markymark2022]

As an aside, does anyone else think that Billie-Jo looked way older than 13, in that famous picture? Looks more like 16/17, to me. This could increase the chances of someone getting stalked, as a stalker may assume her to be much older.

 

[Bickles]

Yes, this plus the fact the plastic was found in Billie-Jo's nostril and the person they released had a thing for bits of plastic...witness saw someone running away covered in blood...the house was in full view from the park where apparently plastic bag man sat. It all makes me wonder if there's more to the case.

As an aside, does anyone else think that Billie-Jo looked way older than 13, in that famous picture? Looks more like 16/17, to me. This could increase the chances of someone getting stalked, as a stalker may assume her to be much older.

 

[MsMiniSleuth]

COLD case cops probing the murder of teenager Billie-Jo Jenkins are carrying out a fresh trawl of the evidence in hope of a break-through.

The 13-year-old was bludgeoned to death with a 18-inch metal tent peg in the garden of her new home on February 15, 1997.

[...]

Earlier this year, Sussex Police announced a forensic review to find out if scientific advances can provide new evidence, 25 years after the horror.

And tests are continuing almost six months on, the force told The Sun.

A spokesperson said Billie-Jo's murder will be revisited after every two years to see if the killer can ever be snared.

"Currently no new information has been provided in this case and it is not being re-investigated," he said.

"However, as part of the regular assessment process, we have been carrying out a forensic review of material held on the case in order to establish whether or not scientific advances can provide new evidence or lines of enquiry."

[...]

Murder cops continue 'forensic review' of evidence in Billie-Jo Jenkins case

COLD case cops probing the murder of teenager Billie-Jo Jenkins are carrying out a fresh trawl of the evidence in hope of a break-through. The 13-year-old was bludgeoned to death with a 18-inch met…

www.thesun.co.uk