GUILTY UK - Conservative MP Sir David Amess, fatally stabbed, Essex, 15 Oct 2021 *arrest*

Ched

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This might sound a daft question how do names work in families, where’s the “Kullane” name of his biological father that I would call a surname gone . Thanks


Detectives meanwhile have been interviewing the father of murder suspect Ali at a home in north London.

Harbi Ali Kullane, 61, is a former media spokesman for the Prime Minister of Somalia, who, according to neighbours, splits his time between London and Nairobi - where he also has a home.
 
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Skigh

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Sir David Amess murder: Cops raid 'childhood home' of terror suspect Ali Harbi Ali


One friend told Mailonline that Mr Kullane (pictured left and right), who describes himself on Twitter as ‘Former Director of Media and Communication Department at the Office of The Prime Minister Federal Republic of Somalia,' is currently back in the UK for medical reasons as he was being treated for a heart condition at Bart’s Hospital. The friend described Mr Kullane as a friendly, educated man, adding: ‘He’s a keen Liverpool fan and sometimes I’ll go to his house to watch the matches'
 

JuicyLucy

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I'm quite surprised anyone would expect the priest to have been allowed into an active crime scene to gain access to a dying murder victim. The rationale seems very clear to me:
  • firstly to preserve the forensic integrity of the scene and the body
  • secondly for the priest's own safety given that the alleged murderer entered the location under false pretences and could well have been accompanied by others who did the same and who might still be there masquerading as witnesses or others
  • thirdly because if the alleged murderer was there under false pretences, the man we now know genuinely to have been a priest might have been too, as far as the officers present could be expected to know at the time.

At a more mundane level, I would think they could all have expected the kind of roasting that ends careers if they had let anyone into an active crime scene, especially a high-profile one, even if in the heat of the moment it might seem like a humane thing to do. I'm sure their training kicks in reflexively at such a time, and a good thing too.

From what I've read, the priest understands this too.

JMO
 

Ched

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I won’t copy first part as it’s a subscription


The Essex police have since provided The Spectator with the following statement about what happened. They don’t deny that the priest was denied access.

‘As with any police incident, it is of the utmost importance that we preserve the integrity of a crime scene and allow emergency services to tend to those in need. A cordon is put in place to secure and prevent contamination of the area. Access into a scene is at the discretion of the investigating officers. This is a fundamental part of any investigation to ensure the best possible chance of securing justice for any victim and their family. A cordon can also be used to restrict an area for emergency services to administer potentially life-saving medical treatment, in as much privacy as possible and to allow officers to confirm that an area is safe to enter.’

The most troubling element of the statement is that the police wanted to ‘allow the emergency services to tend to those in need. A priest is an emergency service. In the case of Sir David, the priest was someone who could help see him into the next world, not just keep him in this one. You don’t have to share a belief in the efficacy of confession to go along with this; you just need a very elementary knowledge of and respect for the faith to refrain from standing between a confessor and a dying man. As for the reference to the ‘emergency services administering potentially life-saving treatment,’ Catholic priests are used to operating together with medics for precisely this reason.

You might like to know that Essex police recently engaged in that exercise in cultural conformity, Hate Crime Awareness Week. Perhaps in future, some awareness of Christianity might be part of the training.

David Amess and the sanctity of the Last Rites | The Spectator
 

Ched

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He told The Telegraph: “I said I was the local Catholic priest and showed them my card but I wasn’t allowed.


However, Father Woolnough made a wider criticism of contemporary police attitudes towards the importance of religion for victims of crime.


If you’re a Catholic, it’s really important that if you’re involved in an accident you have a card saying 'I need to see a priest'.”

He added: “The police don’t call you anymore unless the family ask for it. You can’t give the last rites when the person is dead – it’s the last sacramental right that Christians will have before they die.”

No guidance on such situations
The College of Policing, which oversees some police training and development, said there was no national guidance on granting access to priests in situations such as Friday’s attack.

A spokesman said: “Officers would be expected to use their professional judgementto make decisions based on the circumstances they are faced with, using the National Decision Model to guide their decision making.”

Priest wanting to give Sir David Amess the last rites was denied entry to crime scene
 

19thcenturynovel

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They're taking a while to formally charge him so must be wanting to be very sure of what they are dealing with. He didn't run away after the stabbing which is quite strange in itself. I wonder there were also mental health issues. He's been described as 'self-radicalised' so has accessed these ideas via the internet. Can be terrible for decent, law abiding parents to discover their son/daughter has been brainwashed in this way. Still unclear why he targeted DA. What a terrible business.
 

Dotta

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They're taking a while to formally charge him so must be wanting to be very sure of what they are dealing with. He didn't run away after the stabbing which is quite strange in itself. I wonder there were also mental health issues. He's been described as 'self-radicalised' so has accessed these ideas via the internet. Can be terrible for decent, law abiding parents to discover their son/daughter has been brainwashed in this way. Still unclear why he targeted DA. What a terrible business.
Im really curious about the motive.
I mean, he chose Sir David from over 500 MPs and made the effort to travel by train over 50 miles or so.
I think it is a personal grudge - I read the killer once lived in this area and his sister still lives there.
Mental issues are obvious to me.
MOO
 
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Ched

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The statement in full:
The family would like to thank everyone for the wonderful, wonderful tributes paid to David following his cruel and violent death. It truly has brought us so much comfort. The support shown by friends, constituents and the general public alike has been so overwhelming. As a family it has given us strength.

We have realised from tributes paid that there was far, far more to David than even we, those closest to him, knew.

We are enormously proud of him. Our hearts are shattered. However, there was still so much David wanted to do – this we know from the events of the last few days. So, this is not the end of Sir David Amess MP. It is the next chapter and as a family we ask everyone to support the many charities he worked with. There are so many to mention, so find one close to your hearts and help.

David had recently joined a campaign to help raise funds for a memorial to Dame Vera Lynn. To him she epitomised the strength and courage of our nation. We would ask as many people as possible to support this and meet the target to complete the project.

Closer to home, David was working hard for Southend to gain city status. In his memory, please show your support for this campaign.

Strong and courageous is an appropriate way to describe David. He was a patriot and a man of peace. So, we ask people to set aside their differences and show kindness and love to all. This is the only way forward. Set aside hatred and work towards togetherness.


Whatever one’s race, religious or political beliefs, be tolerant and try to understand.

As a family, we are trying to understand why this awful thing has occurred. Nobody should die in that way. Nobody.

Please let some good come from this tragedy.

We are absolutely broken, but we will survive and carry on for the sake of a wonderful and inspiring man.

We ask at this time that the family’s privacy be respected so that we can grieve in private.
Family of Sir David Amess pay tribute to MP: 'He was a patriot and a man of peace. Nobody should die in that way'
 

RosyCheeks

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I live less than 300 yards from the church. The police cordon has only just been lifted.

it would be disingenuous to suggest that Sir David’s politics have not been divisive at times- just a few weeks ago people were leaving empty plates outside his offices... however, he was well known, attended the opening of an envelope and promoted our local areas at every opportunity- everything you’d expect from a good MP.

the local community are reeling- this kind of thing doesn’t happen here (!)- it’s not one of the dodgier areas of his constituency, it’s a church, it’s home...

I have first hand information from an eye witness that after the attack the killer just sat and waited to be arrested. They didn’t try to get away which would have been easy in the circumstances- there is an alleyway next door to the church and mainly residential area. You could be ‘gone’ in minutes if you wanted to.

It also sounds as though by the time the priest arrived Sir David had already passed and that could be a reason LR weren’t given. The paramedics were seen bringing their equipment back out at about 1.15pm suggesting he had passed before this.

It’s senseless and cruel. I am sad for his friends and family.
 

Ched

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Sir David Amess murder suspect had considered killing other MPs, the Telegraph understands


Sir David Amess murder suspect had considered killing other MPs, the Telegraph understands
The investigation into the tragic death of the MP suggests he was not specifically targeted, but may have been picked at random

The investigation into the tragic death of Amess suggests he was not specifically targeted, but picked at random as part of a plot to kill any national politician.

Ali was seen using his mobile phone moments after the murder, according to sources. The Telegraph has not been able to establish whether the phone was used to record comments after the attack - including identifying with a particular terrorist organisation - or to send a message to a third party.

The actions, seen by witnesses in the room, though, are understood to be at the centre of why investigators labelled the attack a “terror incident” within hours of the murder.
According to sources, he said nothing of note during the attack, but then picked up his phone before his arrest.


Reports had initially suggested the right wing Tory politician, who was MP for Southend West, had been selected because of his values, views or religion. There had been claims that Amess’s devout Catholicism had been a factor, but those were scotched last night. Police and intelligence officials now believe he was stabbed to death simply because his alleged killer had succeeded in booking a face-to-face appointment as part of an indiscriminate and chilling attack on democracy.

The Telegraph understands sources close to the investigation believe Ali may have considered killing other MPs, including Labour and Tory politicians, before picking Amess. Preliminary investigations will end any speculation that there was a specific motive for Amess to be killed.


It is unclear if Amess was chosen after posting on Twitter details of the time and place of his Friday lunchtime constituency surgery. Ali made a booking to see Amess a week before the MP was stabbed multiple times in a frenzied attack.

The alleged killer has no known connections to Leigh-on-Sea or to Amess, authorities have now concluded. He grew up in Croydon in south London and was living in Kentish Town in north London.

Police and security services believe the motivation may have been to strike down an MP to further the Islamist cause espoused by groups such as al-Qaeda, Islamic State and al-Shabab, which is active in Somalia. Ali himself was born in the UK and it is not thought he had made any recent trips to either Somalia or nearby Kenya, where al-Shabab also has a strong base. Nothing has been flagged on travel databases while travel to east Africa during the Covid pandemic has been difficult and may have raised concerns among authorities.
 
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Skigh

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Sir David Amess murder suspect 'radicalised after watching hate preacher'

One friend who witnessed his dramatic change told The Sun last night: “Choudary was someone he became utterly obsessed with.”

Despite Ali’s radicalisation, relatives claimed he had trained to become an NHS doctor after spending four years at top medical school University College London.

But investigators are confident that Ali, 25, was not directed by terror kingpins abroad.

He had been previously referred to the Government’s Prevent anti-terror scheme but investigators are still piecing together how and when he became radicalised.


Sources said his online contacts — and what material he viewed — were now “prime movers” in the investigation into the murder of Tory MP Sir David Amess.
 

Ched

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Sir David Amess murder suspect 'radicalised after watching hate preacher'

One friend who witnessed his dramatic change told The Sun last night: “Choudary was someone he became utterly obsessed with.”

Despite Ali’s radicalisation, relatives claimed he had trained to become an NHS doctor after spending four years at top medical school University College London.

But investigators are confident that Ali, 25, was not directed by terror kingpins abroad.

He had been previously referred to the Government’s Prevent anti-terror scheme but investigators are still piecing together how and when he became radicalised.


Sources said his online contacts — and what material he viewed — were now “prime movers” in the investigation into the murder of Tory MP Sir David Amess.

oh …


Preacher Anjem Choudary sparks fury by suggesting Sir David Amess may have been killed for being 'pro-Israel'
Preacher sparks fury by suggesting Sir David Amess may have been killed for being 'pro-Israel' | Daily Mail Online
 

Dotta

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Some of these bits of info are confusing.

1. I read he booked a meeting, and then that he didnt - but waited 4 hours and was let in.

2. I also read that he lived in the area of Sir DA constituency and now that he didnt.

Im surprised he studied for 4 years at medical school. A future doctor?

He might have read about Sir DA meeting with the locals and considered him an easy prey.
 

Ched

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The suspected killer of Sir David Amess attended an official Deradicalisation course
 

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Skigh

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Terror suspect 'who stabbed Sir David Amess to death wanted to be a doctor' | Daily Mail Online

Ali Harbi Ali, 25, was referred to Prevent, the Government's counter-terrorism programme, several years ago – but his behaviour was not considered to be extreme enough to alert MI5.

His referral is understood to have coincided with a deterioration in his relationship with his Somali-born parents.

Born in Southwark to a family described as 'high class' in Somalia, Ali grew up in a three-bed 1980s terrace house in Croydon with his mother, two sisters and younger brother. His parents split up when he was young and his father returned to Somalia.

One neighbour, who has known the family for 20 years, said Ali spoke of hopes of becoming a doctor. 'He told me he'd been doing exams and he seemed westernised,' the neighbour said.

But after finishing school, Ali is alleged to have shown an interest in radical Islam and was referred to the Prevent programme.

He decided to move in with an aunt and her sons in a council house in the upmarket north London enclave of Kentish Town, in a street of £2 million three-storey townhouses.
 
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