UK - Constance Marten & Mark Gordon charged, Newborn (found deceased), Bolton Greater Manchester, 5 Jan 2023 #6

Status
Not open for further replies.

StillDiggin

Well-Known Member
Joined
Feb 14, 2020
Messages
3,098
Reaction score
12,440
Police are searching for a couple who have gone missing with their newborn baby after their car broke down on a motorway.
Constance Marten and Mark Gordon left the car near junction four of the M61 near Bolton on Thursday night and walked towards Anchor Lane bridge, Greater Manchester Police (GMP) said.
Officers believe Ms Marten had recently given birth and neither she nor her baby had seen medical professionals.
They are appealing for information.
The bridge the couple walked towards links the Highfield and Little Hulton areas.

Thread #1
Thread #2
Thread #3 (thread pulled)
Thread #4
Thread #5
 
Last edited by a moderator:
I think their unofficial marriage in Peru is very symptomatic of their belief that they do not acknowledge any law but their own or possibly 'Gods' - whoever their God is. They do not feel the need to be accountable to laws they do not believe in, whatever the country (UK or Peru) or whatever the organisation (SS)

If - and it's a big if, they still hold some Christian cult-like beliefs, then they will come from the POV that there is no law but Gods... man-made laws aren't anything they would feel a need to respect. If they are coming to it from their own insular belief system (whatever that is) I think the same would be true. In other words - they think they are above the law because they are morally superior (as bizarre a concept as that is given what has happened). Just in the way they have answered questions in interview there is an air of superiority.
 
"Gordon said that Marten was driving when the car exploded as he cannot drive.

He added that Marten had the baby, adding: "She had her, she took her out, she took her out [of the car].""

(From the Argus)

So... CM was driving with the baby in her lap? On a motorway? In a car which had previously stopped working which they bought a few days before?

Which then exploded?

IMO it's possible MG was in the backseat behind her as in the trial podcast they detail the fact that she lost 2k in cash because her handbag was on the driver's seat .

I assumed he was in the back because he was holding the baby but apparently not.

What was he doing back there?!
 
"Gordon said that Marten was driving when the car exploded as he cannot drive.

He added that Marten had the baby, adding: "She had her, she took her out, she took her out [of the car].""

(From the Argus)

So... CM was driving with the baby in her lap? On a motorway? In a car which had previously stopped working which they bought a few days before?

Which then exploded?

IMO it's possible MG was in the backseat behind her as in the trial podcast they detail the fact that she lost 2k in cash because her handbag was on the driver's seat .

I assumed he was in the back because he was holding the baby but apparently not.

What was he doing back there?!


Ken Hudson said MG got out of the driver’s side of the car when it exploded on the motorway

Link in previous thread, will copy it over




Mr Hudson said he saw a woman get out of the passenger’s side of the car and run past him on the hard shoulder, while the male driver "frantically" pulled items out of the burning vehicle.


 
Last edited:
Ken Hudson said MG got out of the driver’s side of the car when it exploded on the motorway

Link in previous thread, will copy it over




Mr Hudson said he saw a woman get out of the passenger’s side of the car and run past him on the hard shoulder, while the male driver "frantically" pulled items out of the burning vehicle.


I believe the witness more than them.
 
I'm updating my timeline again; not many additions this time but easier to keep track this way. New changes in bold.

- 1974 - MG born in Birmingham, the youngest of 7 children, to mum Sylvia
- ~1985 - MG, 11, and family move to Hollywood, Florida
- 26th May 1987 - CM born, lives at Crichel Down, a stately home in Dorset. Her parents are Napier and Virginie Marten (nee Camu, later de Selliers)
- 1989 - MG convicted of rape, age 14
- 1996 - Napier Marten, CM's father, leaves the family, heads to Australia, and leaves behind his 'materialistic' life. He variously has an out-of-body experience with Aborigines, goes whale watching, lives in a lorry, works as a chef and trains in Indian head massage. Unknown when he returned to the UK, but it's 2013 at the latest.
- 2005 (presumed) - CM leaves school - St Mary's Shaftesbury
- 6-18 months in 2006-7 (dates unclear, reports vary) - CM joins TB Joshua's SCOAN cult in Nigeria, which is later linked to sex abuse. Friends report she's not the same afterwards.
- 2008 - CM starts studying Arabic and Middle Eastern Studies at the University of Leeds
- Jan 2009 - CM listed as Tatler 'Babe of the Month'
- 2010 - MG released after 20 years and deported to UK
- 2010-11 - CM on a year abroad in Cairo, studying Arabic. She was, presumably, there when the Arab Spring / Egyptian Revolution happened in Cairo in Jan-Feb 2011. A friend, Noisette Tahoun, she met during this time, and stayed in touch with afterwards, later suggests she had a history of unhealthy relationships, referring to a relationship with a "vulgar" man, and that "when she falls in love she doesn't listen to anyone". It's unclear who or when this vulgar man was.
- 2012 - CM graduates from Leeds with a 2:1
- Aug 2012-June 2013 - CM works as a researcher for Al Jazeera in London, and pitches an idea for a documentary about TB Joshua
- 2013 - CM's childhood stately home at Crichel Down is sold. CM's father reported to be working as a tree surgeon, having passed the estate on early to his eldest son. At the time of CM's disappearance, he is reported to be a film and music producer.
- June-2013-14 - CM works in three short term jobs, two lasting less than a month and one lasting three months; appears to be out of work
- 2014 - CM does a NCTJ course in court reporting. I think this is possible a MOOC rather than anything terribly in depth.
- 2016 - CM leaves E15 Acting School and is listed as a graduate. It is unclear what year she started in - it could have been a second BA starting in 2013 (which would explain her work history) or an MA starting 2015.
- 2016 - CM and MG meet in unclear circumstances, but MG is reported to live near her and be working as a labourer. CM rapidly starts to cut off family and friends.
- June 2017 - CM pregnant, presents at a hospital in London, seeking antenatal care for the first time, says she's living in a campervan
- Sept 2017 - SS issues an alert because they can't locate her
- late 2017 - CM goes to a hospital in Wales in early labour, fake Irish accent, claims to be a traveller called Isabella O'Brien, and living in a campervan nearby. She says she lives in Leeds but is avoiding her family. MG pretends to be a friend, Mr Aymer, borrowing a surname from CM's sister-in-law.
- unspecified time later, it emerges they were living in a flimsy festival style tent with black bin bags and bottles of urine.
- Interim care order made, and CM and the first baby (FF) go into a mother and baby foster care placement. CM warned about the danger of falling asleep with baby on her. It's unclear if she leaves this foster placement with FF, or when GG is born.
- Jan 2020 - local authority starts care proceedings
- 4 Feb 2020 - CM posts a facebook album with three children entitled "my love sprogs", with different children labelled bty / cof / dav. IMO she posted that in the hope that it would make it easier for the children to find her on social media when they're older. Many of her facebook friends express surprise that she has any children at all. One of the comments suggests that a picture is taken in Ilford, East London.
- Some point between Jan and June 2020 - baby HH is born
- June 2020 - MG and CM refuse a placement in a residential unit, so an emergency care and separation order is made for all three children.
- Unknown date around this time - CM and MG are evicted from a property in Ilford.
- August 2020 - MG and CM are reported to be living on the Coldharbour Estate, Greenwich / Eltham, though it's unknown when they moved in. Neighbours report shouting, and the couple spending long periods of time elsewhere. NB: I believe the same property is variously referred to as being on the "Coldharbour Estate, Greenwich" and "in Eltham", though there is a possiblity there were two homes very close together.
- May 2021 - CM pregnant again with baby II, refuses entry to a social worker, SS arrange a scan, CM disappears and claims she's having private healthcare. Date of birth unclear, but she later leaves hospital without II, despite having been told that if she does that the baby will be recorded as abandoned. The next day she returns to the hospital but is upset to be refused entry because she wouldn't take a covid test. She tells SS that she and MG are 'naturalists' who disagree with any medical intervention.
- August 2021, CM's brother Max Marten marries Ruth Aymer, and the wedding is featured in Vogue. CM is nowhere to be seen due to the estrangement.
- 28 Jan 2022 - care and placement orders made for all four children (adopted, or SGO, presumably) at which point they will have known that they have lost all hope of getting those children back.
- March / April(?) 2022 CM pregnant again, conceals pregnancy
- August / September 2022 (sources differ) - MG and CM withdraw £15,000 cash, are evicted, and leave their property in Coldharbour Estate Greenwich / Eltham (they were evicted, but IMO: this coincides with when her bump started to show). They weren't paying rent, and left smoke damage and a collapsed ceiling behind them.
- September - December 2022 - live a nomadic lifestyle, staying in a series of Airbnbs
- 19 Dec 2022 - MG reports to a police station in Sheffield, presumably as part of his sex offender licence conditions.
- 20-26 Dec 2022 - CM & MG stay in holiday cottage in Northumberland
- 22 Dec - CM receives £15,590 from trust fund
- 24 Dec 2022 - CM claims Victoria was born, though this is disputed.
- 26 Dec 2022 - MG reports to a police station in Leeds
- 28 Dec 2022 - Car, a Peugeot 206, breaks down on M61 Greater Manchester (the podcast states this was a Suzuki in M18 Yorkshire). Recovery crew think they're living in the car but don't see a baby. Car towed to Leeds.
- 3 Jan 2023 - CM receives £3400 from a different trust fund
- 4 Jan 2023 - CM & MG check into hotel in Lymm, Cheshire and then later into a different hotel in Manchester
- 5 Jan 2023 - Peugeot 206 car catches fire on the M61 near J4 Bolton, around 6.30pm CM and MG depart leaving behind a passport, placenta, 30 'burner' phones, bible, clothes, 5 used nappies, and a cat in a box. The manhunt begins. Local man called Waiwai Balai gives them a lift to Bolton city centre. 20.02 spotted on CCTV at Bolton Bus Interchange. Take a taxi from Bolton to Liverpool, then a separate taxi from near Liverpool Royal Hospital to Harwich. Speculation is that, as both Liverpool and Harwich are ports, they are trying to leave the country but are hamstrung because MG doesn't have a passport and CM lost hers in the car fire.
- 6 Jan 2023 - CM and MG check in at 3am in Premier Inn Harwich. After departing, staff notice a strong odour that they liken to rotting flesh. WS speculation: this was trench foot (MG was seen with bags over his shoes) or a post partum issue (infection?) from CM. They had had consistent access to bathrooms, so simply body odour is less likely. They move to the Fryatt Hotel that night.
- 7 Jan 2023 - Check out of Fryatt Hotel in Harwich at 7am, then take a taxi to Colchester, then a taxi to East Ham, where they are seen 10.30-12.30. They take a taxi to Whitechapel Road, arriving at 6.15pm. Eat a meal at a restaurant on Brick Lane. Baby seen moving. MG buys a buggy at Argos, along with some camping gear. Try to get a taxi, fail, dump buggy, put baby in Lidl bag.
- 8 Jan 2023 - Shortly after midnight they ask taxi driver Abdirisakh Mohamud to take them to Tesco Extra Enfield. CM claims to be a Muslim using a hood and facemask as a hijab. MG claims to be doing the same because of a hair problem. The taxi driver becomes uneasy and drops the couple off prematurely on Green Lanes - presumably around the Green Lanes / Allison Road junction as they then catch another taxi, driven by Hasan Guzel, departing at 1.25am. During the journey, her phone pings and she asks to change the destination from Portsmouth to Newhaven. The baby is heard "meowing". They arrive at Newhaven at 4.56am. Seen sheltering from rain under an underpass around 6am. CM buys snacks at Texaco. 6.15am - seen walking along Cantercrow Hill towards fields with bag and tent.
- 9-11 Jan 2023 - CM claims baby died, changing her story during questioning.
- 12 Jan, just after 6am - CM purchases petrol and snacks from Texaco. She later claims this was because she considered cremating the baby.
- 19 Jan - Napier Marten issues appeal for CM to turn herself in
- 21 Jan - Karen Satchell, half sister of MG, goes to press saying he was wrongly convicted of rape
- 16 Jan 2023 - 11.45am Nicholas Frost, a dog walker sees tent and MG getting out of it at Stanmer Park Nature Reserve. It is not there a week later.
- Unknown date between 16-27 January, 10.30-2.30 - witness Sarah Hidden states she saw CM and MG in Seaford, on the path between Cuckmere Haven and South Barn car park, with them emerging from the buses. She states she was woken by a baby crying on the preceding two nights, sleeping with the windows open despite a (loud??) winter storm. She believes the sound to have been coming from around Seaford Head golf course.
- 8 Feb - Virginie de Selliers, CM's mum and a psychotherapist, issues an appeal for her to come forward
- 16/17 Feb 2023 - seen near Hollingbury Golf Course with a buggy but no baby
- 17 Feb - tent seen Coldean Lane / Stanmer Park, Brighton (Coldean Lane runs through the park). Sighting in Stanmer Park around midday by witness Mary Thomsen.
- 18 Feb - sighting of CM and MG around Coldean Lane, with CM appearing to have something under her jacket
- 19 Feb - CM and MG seen in Stanmer Park with blue tent, and a 'floppy headed' baby with no clothes. The witness, Pauline Mason, states in court that the baby was so pale she believes it was already dead. Her husband Michael Mason stated they went back later to look for evidence in bins and hedgerows, such as nappies or discarded clothing. However, they did not report the sighting until 1st March. Mr Mason also disclosed that Pauline was convinced that she saw the 1986 Babes in the Wood murder victims. WS member consensus: Pauline is not a convincing witness.
- 19 Feb - MG's mother Sylvia, who lives in Florida, goes to the papers saying he's a 'good boy', that he and CM had married in secret some time ago (no evidence of this is ever produced) and suggesting they could have been kidnapped.
- 20 Feb - CM and MG seen scavenging in bins around Hollingbury Golf Course
- 22 Feb - CM and MG attend Brighton Food Bank. They receive some food, but don't ask for baby items, which are available.
- 27 Feb 2023 - CM and MG go to Mulberry's Convenience Store and buy £20 worth of food in cash but no baby items. Shortly afterwards, they are arrested in Brighton, 9.35pm, smelling 'very unpleasant'. They refuse to tell police where the baby is.
- 1 March 2023 - Baby Victoria's remains found, so decomposed that the sex could not be identified visually and the post mortem could not identify a cause of death

Sources: as before, but the additional sources for the update are as follows



I'm updating my timeline again, seems like a good moment as we're onto a new thread, first time in a couple of weeks as the Old Bailey fire etc means we don't seem to have had much lately! New changes in bold. If I've missed anything let me know so I can edit it in.

- 1974 - MG born in Birmingham, the youngest of 7 children, to mum Sylvia
- ~1985 - MG, 11, and family move to Hollywood, Florida
- 26th May 1987 - CM born, lives at Crichel Down, a stately home in Dorset. Her parents are Napier and Virginie Marten (nee Camu, later de Selliers)
- 1989 - MG convicted of rape, age 14
- 1996 - Napier Marten, CM's father, leaves the family, heads to Australia, and leaves behind his 'materialistic' life. He variously has an out-of-body experience with Aborigines, goes whale watching, lives in a lorry, works as a chef and trains in Indian head massage. Unknown when he returned to the UK, but it's 2013 at the latest.
- 2005 (presumed) - CM leaves school - St Mary's Shaftesbury
- 6-18 months in 2006-7 (dates unclear, reports vary) - CM joins TB Joshua's SCOAN cult in Nigeria, which is later linked to sex abuse. Friends report she's not the same afterwards.
- 2008 - CM starts studying Arabic and Middle Eastern Studies at the University of Leeds
- Jan 2009 - CM listed as Tatler 'Babe of the Month'
- 2010 - MG released after 20 years and deported to UK
- 2010-11 - CM on a year abroad in Cairo, studying Arabic. She was, presumably, there when the Arab Spring / Egyptian Revolution happened in Cairo in Jan-Feb 2011. A friend, Noisette Tahoun, she met during this time, and stayed in touch with afterwards, later suggests she had a history of unhealthy relationships, referring to a relationship with a "vulgar" man, and that "when she falls in love she doesn't listen to anyone". It's unclear who or when this vulgar man was.
- 2012 - CM graduates from Leeds with a 2:1
- Aug 2012-June 2013 - CM works as a researcher for Al Jazeera in London, and pitches an idea for a documentary about TB Joshua
- 2013 - CM's childhood stately home at Crichel Down is sold. CM's father reported to be working as a tree surgeon, having passed the estate on early to his eldest son. At the time of CM's disappearance, he is reported to be a film and music producer.
- June-2013-14 - CM works in three short term jobs, two lasting less than a month and one lasting three months; appears to be out of work
- 2014 - CM does a NCTJ course in court reporting. I think this is possible a MOOC rather than anything terribly in depth.
- 2016 - CM leaves E15 Acting School and is listed as a graduate. It is unclear what year she started in - it could have been a second BA starting in 2013 (which would explain her work history) or an MA starting 2015.
- 2016 - CM and MG meet in a shop. MG is reported to live near her and be working as a labourer. CM rapidly starts to cut off family and friends.
- Approximately 2017 - CM and MG marry in Peru, but claim that this marriage was not recognised in the UK. No proof of this marriage is produced, nor whether it was a marriage legally recognised in Peru.
- June 2017 - CM pregnant, presents at a hospital in London, seeking antenatal care for the first time, says she's living in a campervan
- Sept 2017 - SS issues an alert because they can't locate her
- late 2017 - CM goes to a hospital in Wales in early labour, fake Irish accent, claims to be a traveller called Isabella O'Brien, and living in a campervan nearby. She says she lives in Leeds but is avoiding her family. MG pretends to be a friend, Mr Aymer, borrowing a surname from CM's sister-in-law.
- unspecified time later, it emerges they were living, with a baby, in a flimsy festival style tent with black bin bags and bottles of urine.
- Interim care order made, and CM and the first baby (FF) go into a mother and baby foster care placement. CM warned about the danger of falling asleep with baby on her. It's unclear if she leaves this foster placement with FF, or when GG is born.
- Jan 2020 - local authority starts care proceedings. CM claims in police interview that SS removed her children after MG was blamed for her falling out of a window. She also revealed that her family were involved with SS and had hired private investigators "trying to get involved with my children".
- 4 Feb 2020 - CM posts a facebook album with three children entitled "my love sprogs", with different children labelled bty / cof / dav. IMO she posted that in the hope that it would make it easier for the children to find her on social media when they're older. Many of her facebook friends express surprise that she has any children at all. One of the comments suggests that a picture is taken in Ilford, East London.
- Some point between Jan and June 2020 - baby HH is born
- June 2020 - MG and CM refuse a placement in a residential unit, so an emergency care and separation order is made for all three children.
- Unknown date around this time - CM and MG are evicted from a property in Ilford.
- August 2020 - MG and CM are reported to be living on the Coldharbour Estate, Greenwich / Eltham, though it's unknown when they moved in. Neighbours report shouting, and the couple spending long periods of time elsewhere. NB: I believe the same property is variously referred to as being on the "Coldharbour Estate, Greenwich" and "in Eltham", though there is a possiblity there were two homes very close together.
- May 2021 - CM pregnant again with baby II, refuses entry to a social worker, SS arrange a scan, CM disappears and claims she's having private healthcare. Date of birth unclear, but she later leaves hospital without II, despite having been told that if she does that the baby will be recorded as abandoned. The next day she returns to the hospital but is upset to be refused entry because she wouldn't take a covid test. She tells SS that she and MG are 'naturalists' who disagree with any medical intervention.
- August 2021, CM's brother Max Marten marries Ruth Aymer, and the wedding is featured in Vogue. CM is nowhere to be seen due to the estrangement.
- 28 Jan 2022 - care and placement orders made for all four children (adopted, or SGO, presumably) at which point they will have known that they have lost all hope of getting those children back.
- March / April(?) 2022 CM pregnant again, conceals pregnancy
- August / September 2022 (sources differ) - MG and CM withdraw £15,000 cash, are evicted, and leave their property in Coldharbour Estate Greenwich / Eltham (they were evicted, but IMO: this coincides with when her bump started to show). They weren't paying rent, and left smoke damage and a collapsed ceiling behind them.
- September - December 2022 - live a nomadic lifestyle, staying in a series of Airbnbs
- 19 Dec 2022 - MG reports to a police station in Sheffield, presumably as part of his sex offender licence conditions.
- 20-26 Dec 2022 - CM & MG stay in holiday cottage in Northumberland
- 22 Dec - CM receives £15,590 from trust fund
- 24 Dec 2022 - CM claims Victoria was born, though this is disputed.
- 26 Dec 2022 - MG reports to a police station in Leeds
- 28 Dec 2022 - Car, a Peugeot 206, breaks down on M61 Greater Manchester (the podcast states this was a Suzuki in M18 Yorkshire). Recovery crew think they're living in the car but don't see a baby. Car towed to Leeds.
- 3 Jan 2023 - CM receives £3400 from a different trust fund
- 4 Jan 2023 - CM & MG check into hotel in Lymm, Cheshire and then later into a different hotel in Manchester
- 5 Jan 2023 - Peugeot 206 car catches fire on the M61 near J4 Bolton. CM was driving as MG couldn't drive. Around 6.30pm CM and MG depart leaving behind a passport, placenta, 30 'burner' phones, bible, clothes, 5 used nappies, and a cat in a box. The manhunt begins. Local man called Waiwai Balai gives them a lift to Bolton city centre. 20.02 spotted on CCTV at Bolton Bus Interchange. Take a taxi from Bolton to Liverpool, then a separate taxi from near Liverpool Royal Hospital to Harwich. Speculation is that, as both Liverpool and Harwich are ports, they are trying to leave the country but are hamstrung because MG doesn't have a passport and CM lost hers in the car fire.
- 6 Jan 2023 - CM and MG check in at 3am in Premier Inn Harwich. After departing, staff notice a strong odour that they liken to rotting flesh. WS speculation: this was trench foot (MG was seen with bags over his shoes) or a post partum issue (infection?) from CM. They had had consistent access to bathrooms, so simply body odour is less likely. They move to the Fryatt Hotel that night.
- 7 Jan 2023 - Check out of Fryatt Hotel in Harwich at 7am, then take a taxi to Colchester, then a taxi to East Ham, where they are seen 10.30-12.30. They take a taxi to Whitechapel Road, arriving at 6.15pm. Eat a meal at a restaurant on Brick Lane. Baby seen moving. MG buys a buggy at Argos, along with some camping gear. Try to get a taxi, fail, dump buggy, put baby in Lidl bag.
- 8 Jan 2023 - Shortly after midnight they ask taxi driver Abdirisakh Mohamud to take them to Tesco Extra Enfield. CM claims to be a Muslim using a hood and facemask as a hijab. MG claims to be doing the same because of a hair problem. The taxi driver becomes uneasy and drops the couple off prematurely on Green Lanes - presumably around the Green Lanes / Allison Road junction as they then catch another taxi, driven by Hasan Guzel, departing at 1.25am. During the journey, her phone pings and she asks to change the destination from Portsmouth to Newhaven. The baby is heard "meowing". They arrive at Newhaven at 4.56am. Seen sheltering from rain under an underpass around 6am. CM buys snacks at Texaco Newhaven. 6.15am - seen walking along Cantercrow Hill towards fields with bag and tent.
- 9-11 Jan 2023 - CM claims baby died, changing her story during questioning. CM claims she died when she was in her coat, and CM fell asleep, with the inference being that she suffocated. They both say they attempted resuscitation, but heard a "bubbling" noise from the lungs.
- Unknown date, after the baby died; CM says they discussed what to tell the police; MG told her to say it was a cot death, she was put to sleep on her front, not being held by CM, and when she woke up the baby had died.
- Unknown date / extended period: they carry the baby around in a Lidl bag, but variously claim the bag became too heavy to carry, that soil was added to mask the smell, and that they considered burying her but were too weak to dig.

- 12 Jan, just after 6am - CM purchases petrol and snacks from the same Texaco in Newhaven. She later claims this was because she considered cremating the baby.
- 19 Jan - Napier Marten issues appeal for CM to turn herself in
- 21 Jan - Karen Satchell, half sister of MG, goes to press saying he was wrongly convicted of rape
- 16 Jan 2023 - 11.45am Nicholas Frost, a dog walker sees tent and MG getting out of it at Stanmer Park Nature Reserve. It is not there a week later.
- Unknown date between 16-27 January, 10.30-2.30 - witness Sarah Hidden states she saw CM and MG in Seaford, on the path between Cuckmere Haven and South Barn car park, with them emerging from the buses. She states she was woken by a baby crying on the preceding two nights, sleeping with the windows open despite a (loud??) winter storm. She believes the sound to have been coming from around Seaford Head golf course.
- 8 Feb - Virginie de Selliers, CM's mum and a psychotherapist, issues an appeal for her to come forward
- 16/17 Feb 2023 - seen near Hollingbury Golf Course with a buggy but no baby
- 17 Feb - tent seen Coldean Lane / Stanmer Park, Brighton (Coldean Lane runs through the park). Sighting in Stanmer Park around midday by witness Mary Thomsen.
- 18 Feb - sighting of CM and MG around Coldean Lane, with CM appearing to have something under her jacket
- 19 Feb - CM and MG seen in Stanmer Park with blue tent, and a 'floppy headed' baby with no clothes. The witness, Pauline Mason, states in court that the baby was so pale she believes it was already dead. Her husband Michael Mason stated they went back later to look for evidence in bins and hedgerows, such as nappies or discarded clothing. However, they did not report the sighting until 1st March. Mr Mason also disclosed that Pauline was convinced that she saw the 1986 Babes in the Wood murder victims. WS member consensus: Pauline is not a convincing witness.
- 19 Feb - MG's mother Sylvia, who lives in Florida, goes to the papers saying he's a 'good boy', that he and CM had married in secret some time ago (no evidence of this is ever produced) and suggesting they could have been kidnapped.
- 20 Feb - CM and MG seen scavenging in bins around Hollingbury Golf Course
- 22 Feb - CM and MG attend Brighton Food Bank. They receive some food, but don't ask for baby items, which are available.
- 27 Feb 2023 - CM and MG go to Mulberry's Convenience Store and buy £20 worth of food in cash but no baby items. Shortly afterwards, they are arrested in Brighton, 9.35pm, smelling 'very unpleasant'. They refuse to tell police where the baby is.
- 1 March 2023 - Baby Victoria's remains found at the back of a disused shed in allotments off Lyncht Close, Brighton, so decomposed that the sex could not be identified visually and the post mortem could not identify a cause of death. She is in a Lidl bag, wrapped in sheets, with cans, bottles and leaves.

Sources: as before, but the additional sources for the update are as follows




 
Last edited:
It's highly possible that MG never learned to drive as he was too young in the USA and then in prison. If he'd paid for lessons and a test in the UK, then he'd likely hold a valid licence, unless it was revoked for some reason. I wonder if he ever did?
 
Argos:
The jury are now being shown an identical tent to the one bought by Marten and Gordon in Argos while they were on the run.
Jurors are now also being shown identical sleeping bags to the ones used by Marten and Gordon.

One is dark blue with white stars while another is turquoise with unicorns and rainbows on.

There are 2 sleeping bags on Argos's website which are navy blue with white stars. One is only 200gsm and a 2 season bag, the other is 250gsm and a 3 season bag. Both are completely inadequate for winter camping. They would need a 4-5 season bag in Jan / Feb. Nothing you could buy in Argos would be adequate.


Can't find a unicorns & rainbows bag apart from this:

It may be something that has since been discontinued... or it could be this - who knows given their bizarre choices!
 
@rightsaidfred - re your timeline at UK - Constance Marten & Mark Gordon charged, Newborn (found deceased), Bolton Greater Manchester, 5 Jan 2023 #5

Do you know whether the Texaco mentioned on the 8th Jan is the same as the Texaco on the 12th Jan?

I don't think it has been explicitly stated, but I think this is the only Texaco they had time to get to on the 8th - it's the only one in Newhaven, and near the bottom of Cantercrow Hill

The CCTV from the 12th matches the streetview

So on that basis I'd say a fairly confident yes.
 
Someone’s probably already mentioned this, but the buggy they buy (then abandon) is not safe for a baby under about 6 months. For a newborn it must lay flat as baby can Not hold up it’s head or body if put in seated position. It will have warnings on the box / tags.

Did they do anything right for baby?
 
It's highly possible that MG never learned to drive as he was too young in the USA and then in prison. If he'd paid for lessons and a test in the UK, then he'd likely hold a valid licence, unless it was revoked for some reason. I wonder if he ever did?

It's also possible CM gave him some lessons and they never bothered with a formal test. It wouldn't surprise me put it that way.
 
I'm updating my timeline again, seems like a good moment as we're onto a new thread, first time in a couple of weeks as the Old Bailey fire etc means we don't seem to have had much lately! New changes in bold. If I've missed anything let me know so I can edit it in.

- 1974 - MG born in Birmingham, the youngest of 7 children, to mum Sylvia
- ~1985 - MG, 11, and family move to Hollywood, Florida
- 26th May 1987 - CM born, lives at Crichel Down, a stately home in Dorset. Her parents are Napier and Virginie Marten (nee Camu, later de Selliers)
- 1989 - MG convicted of rape, age 14
- 1996 - Napier Marten, CM's father, leaves the family, heads to Australia, and leaves behind his 'materialistic' life. He variously has an out-of-body experience with Aborigines, goes whale watching, lives in a lorry, works as a chef and trains in Indian head massage. Unknown when he returned to the UK, but it's 2013 at the latest.
- 2005 (presumed) - CM leaves school - St Mary's Shaftesbury
- 6-18 months in 2006-7 (dates unclear, reports vary) - CM joins TB Joshua's SCOAN cult in Nigeria, which is later linked to sex abuse. Friends report she's not the same afterwards.
- 2008 - CM starts studying Arabic and Middle Eastern Studies at the University of Leeds
- Jan 2009 - CM listed as Tatler 'Babe of the Month'
- 2010 - MG released after 20 years and deported to UK
- 2010-11 - CM on a year abroad in Cairo, studying Arabic. She was, presumably, there when the Arab Spring / Egyptian Revolution happened in Cairo in Jan-Feb 2011. A friend, Noisette Tahoun, she met during this time, and stayed in touch with afterwards, later suggests she had a history of unhealthy relationships, referring to a relationship with a "vulgar" man, and that "when she falls in love she doesn't listen to anyone". It's unclear who or when this vulgar man was.
- 2012 - CM graduates from Leeds with a 2:1
- Aug 2012-June 2013 - CM works as a researcher for Al Jazeera in London, and pitches an idea for a documentary about TB Joshua
- 2013 - CM's childhood stately home at Crichel Down is sold. CM's father reported to be working as a tree surgeon, having passed the estate on early to his eldest son. At the time of CM's disappearance, he is reported to be a film and music producer.
- June-2013-14 - CM works in three short term jobs, two lasting less than a month and one lasting three months; appears to be out of work
- 2014 - CM does a NCTJ course in court reporting. I think this is possible a MOOC rather than anything terribly in depth.
- 2016 - CM leaves E15 Acting School and is listed as a graduate. It is unclear what year she started in - it could have been a second BA starting in 2013 (which would explain her work history) or an MA starting 2015.
- 2016 - CM and MG meet in a shop. MG is reported to live near her and be working as a labourer. CM rapidly starts to cut off family and friends.
- Approximately 2017 - CM and MG marry in Peru, but claim that this marriage was not recognised in the UK. No proof of this marriage is produced, nor whether it was a marriage legally recognised in Peru.
- June 2017 - CM pregnant, presents at a hospital in London, seeking antenatal care for the first time, says she's living in a campervan
- Sept 2017 - SS issues an alert because they can't locate her
- late 2017 - CM goes to a hospital in Wales in early labour, fake Irish accent, claims to be a traveller called Isabella O'Brien, and living in a campervan nearby. She says she lives in Leeds but is avoiding her family. MG pretends to be a friend, Mr Aymer, borrowing a surname from CM's sister-in-law.
- unspecified time later, it emerges they were living, with a baby, in a flimsy festival style tent with black bin bags and bottles of urine.
- Interim care order made, and CM and the first baby (FF) go into a mother and baby foster care placement. CM warned about the danger of falling asleep with baby on her. It's unclear if she leaves this foster placement with FF, or when GG is born.
- Jan 2020 - local authority starts care proceedings. CM claims in police interview that SS removed her children after MG was blamed for her falling out of a window. She also revealed that her family were involved with SS and had hired private investigators "trying to get involved with my children".
- 4 Feb 2020 - CM posts a facebook album with three children entitled "my love sprogs", with different children labelled bty / cof / dav. IMO she posted that in the hope that it would make it easier for the children to find her on social media when they're older. Many of her facebook friends express surprise that she has any children at all. One of the comments suggests that a picture is taken in Ilford, East London.
- Some point between Jan and June 2020 - baby HH is born
- June 2020 - MG and CM refuse a placement in a residential unit, so an emergency care and separation order is made for all three children.
- Unknown date around this time - CM and MG are evicted from a property in Ilford.
- August 2020 - MG and CM are reported to be living on the Coldharbour Estate, Greenwich / Eltham, though it's unknown when they moved in. Neighbours report shouting, and the couple spending long periods of time elsewhere. NB: I believe the same property is variously referred to as being on the "Coldharbour Estate, Greenwich" and "in Eltham", though there is a possiblity there were two homes very close together.
- May 2021 - CM pregnant again with baby II, refuses entry to a social worker, SS arrange a scan, CM disappears and claims she's having private healthcare. Date of birth unclear, but she later leaves hospital without II, despite having been told that if she does that the baby will be recorded as abandoned. The next day she returns to the hospital but is upset to be refused entry because she wouldn't take a covid test. She tells SS that she and MG are 'naturalists' who disagree with any medical intervention.
- August 2021, CM's brother Max Marten marries Ruth Aymer, and the wedding is featured in Vogue. CM is nowhere to be seen due to the estrangement.
- 28 Jan 2022 - care and placement orders made for all four children (adopted, or SGO, presumably) at which point they will have known that they have lost all hope of getting those children back.
- March / April(?) 2022 CM pregnant again, conceals pregnancy
- August / September 2022 (sources differ) - MG and CM withdraw £15,000 cash, are evicted, and leave their property in Coldharbour Estate Greenwich / Eltham (they were evicted, but IMO: this coincides with when her bump started to show). They weren't paying rent, and left smoke damage and a collapsed ceiling behind them.
- September - December 2022 - live a nomadic lifestyle, staying in a series of Airbnbs
- 19 Dec 2022 - MG reports to a police station in Sheffield, presumably as part of his sex offender licence conditions.
- 20-26 Dec 2022 - CM & MG stay in holiday cottage in Northumberland
- 22 Dec - CM receives £15,590 from trust fund
- 24 Dec 2022 - CM claims Victoria was born, though this is disputed.
- 26 Dec 2022 - MG reports to a police station in Leeds
- 28 Dec 2022 - Car, a Peugeot 206, breaks down on M61 Greater Manchester (the podcast states this was a Suzuki in M18 Yorkshire). Recovery crew think they're living in the car but don't see a baby. Car towed to Leeds.
- 3 Jan 2023 - CM receives £3400 from a different trust fund
- 4 Jan 2023 - CM & MG check into hotel in Lymm, Cheshire and then later into a different hotel in Manchester
- 5 Jan 2023 - Peugeot 206 car catches fire on the M61 near J4 Bolton. CM was driving as MG couldn't drive. Around 6.30pm CM and MG depart leaving behind a passport, placenta, 30 'burner' phones, bible, clothes, 5 used nappies, and a cat in a box. The manhunt begins. Local man called Waiwai Balai gives them a lift to Bolton city centre. 20.02 spotted on CCTV at Bolton Bus Interchange. Take a taxi from Bolton to Liverpool, then a separate taxi from near Liverpool Royal Hospital to Harwich. Speculation is that, as both Liverpool and Harwich are ports, they are trying to leave the country but are hamstrung because MG doesn't have a passport and CM lost hers in the car fire.
- 6 Jan 2023 - CM and MG check in at 3am in Premier Inn Harwich. After departing, staff notice a strong odour that they liken to rotting flesh. WS speculation: this was trench foot (MG was seen with bags over his shoes) or a post partum issue (infection?) from CM. They had had consistent access to bathrooms, so simply body odour is less likely. They move to the Fryatt Hotel that night.
- 7 Jan 2023 - Check out of Fryatt Hotel in Harwich at 7am, then take a taxi to Colchester, then a taxi to East Ham, where they are seen 10.30-12.30. They take a taxi to Whitechapel Road, arriving at 6.15pm. Eat a meal at a restaurant on Brick Lane. Baby seen moving. MG buys a buggy at Argos, along with some camping gear. Try to get a taxi, fail, dump buggy, put baby in Lidl bag.
- 8 Jan 2023 - Shortly after midnight they ask taxi driver Abdirisakh Mohamud to take them to Tesco Extra Enfield. CM claims to be a Muslim using a hood and facemask as a hijab. MG claims to be doing the same because of a hair problem. The taxi driver becomes uneasy and drops the couple off prematurely on Green Lanes - presumably around the Green Lanes / Allison Road junction as they then catch another taxi, driven by Hasan Guzel, departing at 1.25am. During the journey, her phone pings and she asks to change the destination from Portsmouth to Newhaven. The baby is heard "meowing". They arrive at Newhaven at 4.56am. Seen sheltering from rain under an underpass around 6am. CM buys snacks at Texaco. 6.15am - seen walking along Cantercrow Hill towards fields with bag and tent.
- 9-11 Jan 2023 - CM claims baby died, changing her story during questioning. CM claims she died when she was in her coat, and CM fell asleep, with the inference being that she suffocated. They both say they attempted resuscitation, but heard a "bubbling" noise from the lungs.
- Unknown date, after the baby died; CM says they discussed what to tell the police; MG told her to say it was a cot death, she was put to sleep on her front, not being held by CM, and when she woke up the baby had died.
- Unknown date / extended period: they carry the baby around in a Lidl bag, but variously claim the bag became too heavy to carry, that soil was added to mask the smell, and that they considered burying her but were too weak to dig.

- 12 Jan, just after 6am - CM purchases petrol and snacks from Texaco. She later claims this was because she considered cremating the baby.
- 19 Jan - Napier Marten issues appeal for CM to turn herself in
- 21 Jan - Karen Satchell, half sister of MG, goes to press saying he was wrongly convicted of rape
- 16 Jan 2023 - 11.45am Nicholas Frost, a dog walker sees tent and MG getting out of it at Stanmer Park Nature Reserve. It is not there a week later.
- Unknown date between 16-27 January, 10.30-2.30 - witness Sarah Hidden states she saw CM and MG in Seaford, on the path between Cuckmere Haven and South Barn car park, with them emerging from the buses. She states she was woken by a baby crying on the preceding two nights, sleeping with the windows open despite a (loud??) winter storm. She believes the sound to have been coming from around Seaford Head golf course.
- 8 Feb - Virginie de Selliers, CM's mum and a psychotherapist, issues an appeal for her to come forward
- 16/17 Feb 2023 - seen near Hollingbury Golf Course with a buggy but no baby
- 17 Feb - tent seen Coldean Lane / Stanmer Park, Brighton (Coldean Lane runs through the park). Sighting in Stanmer Park around midday by witness Mary Thomsen.
- 18 Feb - sighting of CM and MG around Coldean Lane, with CM appearing to have something under her jacket
- 19 Feb - CM and MG seen in Stanmer Park with blue tent, and a 'floppy headed' baby with no clothes. The witness, Pauline Mason, states in court that the baby was so pale she believes it was already dead. Her husband Michael Mason stated they went back later to look for evidence in bins and hedgerows, such as nappies or discarded clothing. However, they did not report the sighting until 1st March. Mr Mason also disclosed that Pauline was convinced that she saw the 1986 Babes in the Wood murder victims. WS member consensus: Pauline is not a convincing witness.
- 19 Feb - MG's mother Sylvia, who lives in Florida, goes to the papers saying he's a 'good boy', that he and CM had married in secret some time ago (no evidence of this is ever produced) and suggesting they could have been kidnapped.
- 20 Feb - CM and MG seen scavenging in bins around Hollingbury Golf Course
- 22 Feb - CM and MG attend Brighton Food Bank. They receive some food, but don't ask for baby items, which are available.
- 27 Feb 2023 - CM and MG go to Mulberry's Convenience Store and buy £20 worth of food in cash but no baby items. Shortly afterwards, they are arrested in Brighton, 9.35pm, smelling 'very unpleasant'. They refuse to tell police where the baby is.
- 1 March 2023 - Baby Victoria's remains found at the back of a disused shed in allotments off Lyncht Close, Brighton, so decomposed that the sex could not be identified visually and the post mortem could not identify a cause of death. She is in a Lidl bag, wrapped in sheets, with cans, bottles and leaves.

Sources: as before, but the additional sources for the update are as follows




Thanks for this. The 12th Jan Texaco was also Newhaven - Constance Marten: Woman heard baby cry on South Downs. Did Cm mean Newhaven and not Harwich?
 
rbbm
“She is a very special person. She’s an awesome woman and she would never do anything to harm a child under any circumstances,” he said.

He told police that they had wanted to “safeguard” the child, the “whole thing” was for her and what happened could not have been predicted.
Gordon told officers: “What have I done that you don’t think is right here?''
1708442321991.png

'He told me not to scream or he'd kill my kids'​

''The victim of a convicted rapist who is on the run with his aristocrat partner and their baby today told how he threatened to kill her sleeping children during a four-hour attack in 1989.
The mother-of-two was held captive during the burglary with a pair of garden shears and a kitchen knife.''
 
It's highly possible that MG never learned to drive as he was too young in the USA and then in prison. If he'd paid for lessons and a test in the UK, then he'd likely hold a valid licence, unless it was revoked for some reason. I wonder if he ever did?

I would guess he knows how to drive. It's not hard to learn to drive, but it is hard to learn how to drive safely and legally in order to pass a test, which I doubt he bothered with, especially if they lived in London. In lots of places in London it's easier not to drive!.

it's weird that he tries to cover himself with that lie though, maybe he thought that would be more of a problem for his parole? He obviously consider their actions with the baby as wrong.

I'm just speculating of course.

Someone’s probably already mentioned this, but the buggy they buy (then abandon) is not safe for a baby under about 6 months. For a newborn it must lay flat as baby can Not hold up it’s head or body if put in seated position. It will have warnings on the box / tags.

Did they do anything right for baby?

No.
 
Status
Not open for further replies.

Members online

Online statistics

Members online
60
Guests online
4,040
Total visitors
4,100

Forum statistics

Threads
592,491
Messages
17,969,812
Members
228,789
Latest member
Soccergirl500
Back
Top