UK - Constance Marten & Mark Gordon & Newborn (found deceased), Bolton Greater Manchester, 5 Jan 2023 #2 *Arrest*

[JennieM]

Police fear a baby at the centre of a massive search operation has come to "serious harm".

Police have asked for more time to question Constance Marten and Mark Gordon who were arrested on suspicion of gross negligence manslaughter.

People charged with gross negligence manslaughter could face up to 18 years in prison if found guilty over a death caused by negligent behaviour.

This is different to unlawful act manslaughter, where a prison term can be up to 24 years if someone is proven to have intentionally done something unlawful or dangerous that inadvertently caused death.

Constance Marten arrest: Police fear baby has come to 'serious harm'

Constance Marten and Mark Gordon are held on suspicion of gross negligence manslaughter.

www.bbc.co.uk

 

[JennieM]

Police will quiz missing aristocrat and her boyfriend for another 36 hours to try and get answers on missing baby's whereabouts amid fears newborn 'has come to serious harm' - as frantic search across 90 square miles of countryside continues​

Police have applied for 36 hours more to quiz them.

The baby has never been pictured, but two taxi drivers who ferried the couple early in January said they had been able to see the shape of the infant moving and hear it crying during the journeys.

Police fear aristocrat's missing baby 'has come to harm'

Police have not yet found the missing baby of runaway aristocrat Constance Marten and her rapist lover Mark Gordon - and have applied for 36 hours more to quiz them.

www.dailymail.co.uk

 

[Telltale]

Just MOO but I don’t think drugs are at play here. Not sure why, I just don’t.

I don't either. I think it's a relationship that was mix of coercive control and extreme co-dependence.

They made a cult of two, and their isolation, sense of persecution and hostility towards interference from friends, family and services grew with every child that was taken from them. Mental health and trauma compounded into this insular existence nobody could penetrate. To the point that when she got pregnant again, they hatched this plan to keep their child from SS. They were successfully flying under the radar with all their moving until the car fire.

Unfortunately the massive manhunt, national public interest and the press digging up all their dirty laundry just turbocharged their worldview - that they were a target of governmental persecution and social judgment. Which sent them into a sort of twisted survival mode. A mental state that didn't allow them to see giving up or putting their baby in the hands of services as putting it's welfare first, even, possibly, if it meant saving it's life.

Massive IMO of course.

 

[lvbut]

Just the simple fact that it is impossible to go off the radar completely if you are hooked on something. You'd have to keep finding dealers, so talking to people and making connections and there aren't that many in the woods

Drugs are super easy to get hold of when you’re in that ‘world’. An ex was a cocaine addict and could get it anywhere, even when we were out of the country. I’m a regular cannabis user and have NEVER had difficulty finding a dealer. I’ve never tried to purchase on the run, admittedly.

 

[lvbut]

I don't either. I think it's a relationship that was mix of coercive control and extreme co-dependence.

They made a cult of two, and their isolation, sense of persecution and hostility towards interference from friends, family and services grew with every child that was taken from them. Mental health and trauma compounded into this insular existence nobody could penetrate. To the point that when she got pregnant again, they hatched this plan to keep their child from SS. They were successfully flying under the radar with all their moving until the car fire.

Unfortunately the massive manhunt, national public interest and the press digging up all their dirty laundry just turbocharged their worldview - that they were a target of governmental persecution and social judgment. Which sent them into a sort of twisted survival mode. A mental state that didn't allow them to see giving up or putting their baby in the hands of services as putting it's welfare first, even, possibly, if it meant saving it's life.

Massive IMO of course.

I agree with every word you just said - “cult of two” especially. Some toxic relationships are exactly like that.

 

[wizardizzo76]

Drugs are super easy to get hold of when you’re in that ‘world’. An ex was a cocaine addict and could get it anywhere, even when we were out of the country. I’m a regular cannabis user and have NEVER had difficulty finding a dealer. I’ve never tried to purchase on the run, admittedly.

I don't disagree. I have been offered drugs in all sorts of places all over the world and have been with people who have sought them out. Easy as pie. Very hard when you are in the woods and keeping off the radar though, as you need to find people and places. I genuinely think if they were drug dependent, they would have been spotted weeks ago. Furthermore, that £10k reward would have been claimed, by some "upstanding citizen"!

 

[lvbut]

I don't disagree. I have been offered drugs in all sorts of places all over the world and have been with people who have sought them out. Easy as pie. Very hard when you are in the woods and keeping off the radar though, as you need to find people and places. I genuinely think if they were drug dependent, they would have been spotted weeks ago. Furthermore, that £10k reward would have been claimed, by some "upstanding citizen"!

Ah, yes. I didn’t think of the reward. That’s a very good point!

 

[Bluebear15]

IMO this has always been about finding the baby and removing the baby from its parents, and that is why they continued running.

And them running is why the police are now looking for a dead baby imo.
If they were in any way capable of looking after a child they wouldn't have run imo.

 

[Kingsley]

Ms Marten and Mr Gordon were arrested around 9.30pm on Monday night after 53 days on the run.

They had just visited the Mulberry's grocery store where they had stocked up on 'supplies'.

Asked if they had bought any baby products, a shop assistant said: 'I don't think so, not a that I can remember.'

Police search for Constance Marten's's missing baby continues

Fears are growing for runaway aristocrat Constance Marten's baby after it emerged that she visited a food bank without have been without their baby for at least a week, MailOnline can reveal.

www.dailymail.co.uk

 

[CaptainNancy]

I've just "asked Alexa" what time is sunset tonight and it's 5.39 pm. Alexa has also told me that skies over Brighton will be clear tonight with a temperature of 1 degree Centigrade. It's 1.28 pm. Sadly time is not on the side of the Search Party. I pray to God something is found this afternoon, if not actual Baby then something definite that will lead the Police to the Baby before night draws upon us.

 

[CaptainNancy]

Anyone know why the Met are now leading this rather than Sussex police?

 

[infinit]

Anyone know why the Met are now leading this rather than Sussex police?

Det Supt Lewis Basford is head of Public Protection - East BCU in the Met. One of their areas of speciality is child protection/neglect/abuse and missing persons. Not sure why they've taken over from Sussex though.

EDIT: Based on his Twitter he shared an appeal before they were found so they might have already been involved. Perhaps they got involved when they were spotted in East Ham?

 

[Obergine]

This does look like her coat, but would she be so careless: Woman claims to have spotted Constance Marten and Mark Gordon's blue tent

 

[NextSprint]

Det Supt Lewis Basford is head of Public Protection - East BCU in the Met. One of their areas of speciality is child protection/neglect/abuse and missing persons. Not sure why they've taken over from Sussex though.

EDIT: Based on his Twitter he shared an appeal before they were found so they might have already been involved. Perhaps they got involved when they were spotted in East Ham?

I guess this has something to do with when they were in London. If Basford is East BCU, that would cover Whitechapel, and perhaps the Met are the ones who instigating the investigation.

 

[Meeky]

Someone posted about the pair possibly denying the existence of a new baby to police. I’m wondering if their phones might provide evidence of the child’s existence with photos which would be date stamped.

 

[ginnyw]

The references to them 'amassing' a lot of money (see link below): was this her family money, or something else?

Constance Marten and Mark Gordon: police fear baby may have come to harm

Couple being held on suspicion of gross negligence manslaughter have yet to tell police location of infant

www.theguardian.com

 

[Kingsley]

• Jan. 7: The pair is spotted in London with their faces covered leaving a taxi with an orange carrier bag and a stroller. Using cash, they paid for various items, including a tent, sleeping bags and pillows. The couple then dumped a buggy and other items later that day before continuing to travel.

The stroller was dumped on January 7 after a taxi ride and after they bought camping type equipment. Is it possible that they choice to stay outdoors is a result of the demise of the poor baby within the first few days of life -- that they have been on the run because of manslaughter rather than being on the run to keep their baby with them?

When was the last taxi ride with a moving, crying baby? Was Jan 7 the last one?
Sorry if the taxi dates were already established. The timeline from the cited article doesn't show anything else in January.

Heiress Constance Marten, partner arrested: Missing newborn's parents won't share baby's location

Heiress Constance Marten and Mark Gordons were arrested in England Monday night intensifying the search for their missing newborn baby.

www.usatoday.com

 

[infinit]

This does look like her coat, but would she be so careless: Woman claims to have spotted Constance Marten and Mark Gordon's blue tent

Not sure if I'm imagining it but you can almost see folds that look very similar to the CCTV.

Constance Marten and Mark Gordon: Timeline of couple’s disappearance

Constance Marten and Mark Gordon were missing for seven weeks

www.independent.co.uk

 

[infinit]

• Jan. 7: The pair is spotted in London with their faces covered leaving a taxi with an orange carrier bag and a stroller. Using cash, they paid for various items, including a tent, sleeping bags and pillows. The couple then dumped a buggy and other items later that day before continuing to travel.

The stroller was dumped on January 7 after a taxi ride and after they bought camping type equipment. Is it possible that they choice to stay outdoors is a result of the demise of the poor baby within the first few days of life -- that they have been on the run because of manslaughter rather than being on the run to keep their baby with them?

When was the last taxi ride with a moving, crying baby? Was Jan 7 the last one?
Sorry if the taxi dates were already established. The timeline from the cited article doesn't show anything else in January.

Heiress Constance Marten, partner arrested: Missing newborn's parents won't share baby's location

Heiress Constance Marten and Mark Gordons were arrested in England Monday night intensifying the search for their missing newborn baby.

www.usatoday.com

Police say 'remains' found in search for baby of Constance Marten - latest

Marten was Gordon have been arrested on suspicion of gross negligence manslaughter as the desperate hunt continues

www.manchestereveningnews.co.uk

It's believed by the Police the baby was alive when they arrived in Newhaven but they've not stated what leads them to believe that.

 

[Elleoshin]

Wasn't it Brighton that she went to drama school and then hooked up with Mark and then dropped drama school and cut everyone off... I'm not saying by any means this is the case I think they will have some 'links' in the area and they will know it well. I think that they may have found someone who would take pity on them and maybe the baby is safe... This is just more to get them to talk or to get whoever is out there to panic and come forward... The only thing is the longer it is I can't help but lose faith, and think this theory isn't the case. I initially thought they meant hadn't seen the baby on camera since 8th Feb when they said they hadn't seen the baby since the 8th, but they meant 8th January. The presser at 2.40pm didn't tell us much other than they'd been allowed to hold them longer.