UK UK - Corrie McKeague, 23, Bury St Edmunds, 24 September 2016 #10

[Ashbeck]

I am beginning to seriously doubt the timing of the grapes video now. Wasn't that supposed to be 01:20 ? It couldn't have been if he was only leaving flex at that time. I am wondering again if the first cctv issued is really the last one and not the horseshoe one.

Way back in thread #1 when The Grapes footage was released it was reported in MSM as being 3:20am that he walked past. I'm wondering if any of the timeline we've followed before he goes in to the horseshoe is accurate.

http://www.eadt.co.uk/news/watch_cc...s_on_saturday_night_did_you_see_him_1_4715900

 

[markymint]

I think most of us following these threads are in agreement his behavior that night is a bit odd. Rather, that what we're all seeing, is being described to us in a "highly positive" light.

That said, people have traits. I have problems with people who say they'll be here at 7pm and turn up at 8.15, relentlessely, like, subcioncious mental issues or something, I don't know. Only that it's 99% likely to happen every time.

So let's look at it this way. Maybe Corrie is always playing "catch up" and is never quite at the pub with his "mates" from Hon because he's naturally like that, somehow. So maybe his behavior for the most part is "normal".

But what about the final CCTV moments of him? Running, and slyly walking to the bins. Who is he trying to catch up with at this point in the night, 3.30am? His family nor police haven't really described his actions in that part of the evening, what do they think he's up to? Just "being Corrie"? So he does have some slightly odd personality traits? One or the other needs to be admitted really. That he's doing something odd in the horseshoe, or he has some odd personality traits hence his actions, all his actions, that night, which to the rest of us - seem a little bizarre.

So he does a pee, walks over to Short Brackland and gets a lift, and then annoys someone. Maybe one of those traits of his finally came into conflict. Well, I hope for the families sake, they can attempt to or actually postulate the negatives. They may never know otherwise.

Sorry that probably isn't so clear right now. I'm still working it out myself

<modsnip>

 

[Northern Light]

The one think that stands out to me is flex, he was only in the club about 30 mins, not to drunk to go in but 30 mins later asked to leave, that would be 2 drinks at the most as probely had to wait at the bar for around ten mins to even get served and have first drink, even this doesn't sit right to me, we're told this and told that but not told any real facts whatsoever ,

In the BBC News video on Look East, the doorman said he appeared to be looking for someone. In another venue he was approaching tables and talking to people. Perhaps he was doing the same in Flex and it was seen by the door guys or reported. Quiet tap on the shoulder and asked to leave. May have been a polite way of putting it, that he was looking for someone, instead of saying he was approaching tables. JMO

 

[Dcflag]

Way back in thread #1 when The Grapes footage was released it was reported in MSM as being 3:20am that he walked past. I'm wondering if any of the timeline we've followed before he goes in to the horseshoe is accurate.

http://www.eadt.co.uk/news/watch_cc...s_on_saturday_night_did_you_see_him_1_4715900

If the public has been deliberately misled over timings I will be stumped. Why?

 

[haynat21]

In the BBC News video on Look East, the doorman said he appeared to be looking for someone. In another venue he was approaching tables and talking to people. Perhaps he was doing the same in Flex and it was seen by the door guys or reported. Quiet tap on the shoulder and asked to leave. May have been a polite way of putting it, that he was looking for someone, instead of saying he was approaching tables. JMO

This was what I was going to suggest that he was maybe bothering people? I have seen many a guy being ejected from nightclubs as girls have reported to bouncers thet are bothering them.

 

[TheTruthWillOut]

Looks like our timings are wrong originally scorpio. This guy says he was asked to leave flex at 01:20 thats 40 mins after we had him leaving so he could have been there longer than we thought.

The Look East report isn't available on iPlayer now.....Didn't it have the Mama Mia's visit down as 01:10 or 01:15? If so then it stands to reason the Flex ejection couldn't be 01:20?

 

[suzyjackson]

When I read it back it makes me wonder about Corries state of mind. Was he lonely? I do believe everyone who knew Corrie from home who knew him as happy, fun, full of life. But that's not how it's coming across as life on base was for him. Not one friend (RAF or otherwise, because I'm sure after 3 years he had friends from outside of the military if he was indeed a regular on the club scene) from BSE or surrounding areas has come forward to say anything about Corries personality, that night, previous nights. All the people talking about what a good guy he was in media reports have been staff from bars, clubs or takeaways. Did he actually have may true friends away from home or are they all occasional drinking buddies?

It is beginning to look like he was lonely, especially considering the long calls to his brother, obtaining the puppy for company, desperate for company on this night and drowning his sorrows. We now have confusion over the timeline whether police contrived or by mistake I do not know but this seems a strange state of affairs.

I touched in this in the last thread. Robin Williams said that when everyone has that expectation of being the funny guy you put that mask on and give people what they want, but often it's to hide how desperately depressed you are or how much you're struggling (as we know he was)

The description of Corrie that night strikes me of a good facade. The fact that it appears his friends were just trying to ditch him all night supports that his outgoing nature was more for show. Him wanting to make his own way home and eating his food outside is so solitary.

I've been thinking about this for the past couple of days. The possibility of suicide isn't one which has been mentioned very often yet it's the main cause of death of men in Corrie's age group. I thought when I wastched the video clip of Corrie conducting the band that he was trying too hard, I found it an uncomfortable watch and some of the comments on the Look East report made me think the same.

I don't have a theory that fits with the pings and the CCTV but maybe Corrie was hiding some kind of mental health issue, having a puppy and making future plans don't necessarily preclude a deep sadness that might have become overwhelming. I stiil hope though that he's gone AWOL and turns up safe and sound

 

[Dcflag]

I've been thinking about this for the past couple of days. The possibility of suicide isn't one which has been mentioned very often yet it's the main cause of death of men in Corrie's age group. I thought when I wastched the video clip of Corrie conducting the band that he was trying too hard, I found it an uncomfortable watch and some of the comments on the Look East report made me think the same.

I don't have a theory that fits with the pings and the CCTV but maybe Corrie was hiding some kind of mental health issue, having a puppy and making future plans don't necessarily preclude a deep sadness that might have become overwhelming. I stiil hope though that he's gone AWOL and turns up safe and sound

I have mentioned it but not greatly discussed it. It would absolutely be a reason why he may bin his mobile phone.

 

[Ashbeck]

If the public has been deliberately misled over timings I will be stumped. Why?

Im not sure we've been deliberately misled and I don't believe that footage is 3:20am as originally reported, but I just wonder if there's confusion about when he did actually walk past The Grapes? If he was kicked out of Flex at 01:20 as the report from the bouncer states then he can't have been walking past The Grapes at 01:20 too. Have the police (rather than the family) confirmed exactly when he was seen on that cctv? So many parts of the timeline have changed, right from the very first part of when he arrived in BSE, that it's difficult trying to keep up!

 

[Shiressleuth]

Way back in thread #1 when The Grapes footage was released it was reported in MSM as being 3:20am that he walked past. I'm wondering if any of the timeline we've followed before he goes in to the horseshoe is accurate.

http://www.eadt.co.uk/news/watch_cc...s_on_saturday_night_did_you_see_him_1_4715900

Yes it was touted originally as the last footage I remember. Then they issued the horseshoe footage as the last and gave different times to the grapes cctv.

 

[Scorpio1]

Looks like our timings are wrong originally scorpio. This guy says he was asked to leave flex at 01:20 thats 40 mins after we had him leaving so he could have been there longer than we thought.

who knows as I fort that the original timings were from family from early days, how can the door man remember exactly! the timings will be on CCTV so some one must know, I rely can't see the point of all this clook and dagger stuff, what are we trying to hide, this is basic facts that could be important to people that might have seen him that night, we don't even have a reliable time line of ware he was that night,

 

[MidsummersDay]

So can we put the bin lorry to bed? At least for transporting corrie.

I think we can put the 'Corrie in the bin' to bed.
Not sure yet about putting the 'bin lorry' or his 'phone in the bin lorry' or even 'Corrie in the bin lorry' to bed.


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[Ashbeck]

I've been thinking about this for the past couple of days. The possibility of suicide isn't one which has been mentioned very often yet it's the main cause of death of men in Corrie's age group.

This was one of my first theories when I started to follow this case and one I've struggled to get away from for very long.

He had clearly had a crap night.
His 'mates' had left him at base and gone without him, he sat in his car drinking alone on the phone, he was alone talking to strangers in bars, he was kicked out of his regular club before he was ready to leave. He then wakes up cold and lonely on the streets at 3am, nobody around that he knows. He's probably in that awful groggy stage where you're no longer drunk but aren't sober or in a full on hangover yet. He's probably feeling pretty miserable by that point. Mixed with any possible underlying mental health issues or demons he may have from how life is for him on base, I can imagine it would be easy for dark thoughts to take over. If he's at all impulsive, ditch the phone and off he goes. Suicide or AWOL (because 'screw it, none of my so called mates will even care').

 

[Shiressleuth]

The one think that stands out to me is flex, he was only in the club about 30 mins, not to drunk to go in but 30 mins later asked to leave, that would be 2 drinks at the most as probely had to wait at the bar for around ten mins to even get served and have first drink, even this doesn't sit right to me, we're told this and told that but not told any real facts whatsoever ,

Way back in thread #1 when The Grapes footage was released it was reported in MSM as being 3:20am that he walked past. I'm wondering if any of the timeline we've followed before he goes in to the horseshoe is accurate.

http://www.eadt.co.uk/news/watch_cc...s_on_saturday_night_did_you_see_him_1_4715900

I think we can put the 'Corrie in the bin' to bed.
Not sure yet about putting the 'bin lorry' or his 'phone in the bin lorry' or even 'Corrie in the bin lorry' to bed.


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Not even sure what time that horsesh** cctv really is now. No wonder bin man didn't see him - he was probably still asleep in hughes doorway at the time imo.

 

[janeh]

This was one of my first theories when I started to follow this case and one I've struggled to get away from for very long.

He had clearly had a crap night.
His 'mates' had left him at base and gone without him, he sat in his car drinking alone on the phone, he was alone talking to strangers in bars, he was kicked out of his regular club before he was ready to leave. He then wakes up cold and lonely on the streets at 3am, nobody around that he knows. He's probably in that awful groggy stage where you're no longer drunk but aren't sober or in a full on hangover yet. He's probably feeling pretty miserable by that point. Mixed with any possible underlying mental health issues or demons he may have from how life is for him on base, I can imagine it would be easy for dark thoughts to take over. If he's at all impulsive, ditch the phone and off he goes. Suicide or AWOL (because 'screw it, none of my so called mates will even care').

The family insist however that this is all normal for Corrie. <modsnip> Maybe he is good at hiding his true feelings but I feel that those closest to him need to consider if the nights events has led to this situation.

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[MidsummersDay]

Doesn't this paint a completely different picture of that night? The picture I'm seeing is for whatever reason his friends didn't seem to want him there and Corrie drove himself to BSE and spent 2 hours chasing them from bar to bar?

Have another read and see what you think. There are glaringly inaccurate statements in the account. He spoke to Corrie at 0120? He was happily eating his Kebab and chips at that time and 'walking with purpose' towards Hughes doorway. No mention of him being 'ejected'. The phone died at 0500? That's defo contrary to the polices' statement of 'around 0800'. The list goes on.
How can we accept this as a reliable source if these simple facts are proved to be wrong? Is it the report writing? In which case all of the information from eadt must be taken with a pinch of salt as well.


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[Ashbeck]

The family insist however that this is all normal for Corrie. <modsnip> Maybe he is good at hiding his true feelings but I feel that those closest to him need to consider if the nights events has led to this situation.

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I think his family have their opinion on what has happened (third party) and aren't willing to see other options as being possible. They obviously love Corrie and I can completely see why they wouldn't want to believe he could just go AWOL and not contact them, or that they wouldn't want to believe he's capable of ending his life. But I think both of those are options that must be explored.

Last year my friends husband walked out infront of a train. No prior changes in his behaviour, no warning signs, no hint of depression. To all friends and family he was happy and enjoying life. But clearly he had demons that still they don't know about. It's clearly very possible to hide mental illness from your loved ones. Even easier to hide that side of you when your family and closest friends are hundreds of miles away.

 

[janeh]

I think his family have their opinion on what has happened (third party) and aren't willing to see other options as being possible. They obviously love Corrie and I can completely see why they wouldn't want to believe he could just go AWOL and not contact them, or that they wouldn't want to believe he's capable of ending his life. But I think both of those are options that must be explored.

Last year my friends husband walked out infront of a train. No prior changes in his behaviour, no warning signs, no hint of depression. To all friends and family he was happy and enjoying life. But clearly he had demons that still they don't know about. It's clearly very possible to hide mental illness from your loved ones. Even easier to hide that side of you when your family and closest friends are hundreds of miles away.

Absolutely and statistically young men are vulnerable to mental health problems around this age. They are also very good at masking those feelings. I can imagine that if Corrie was struggling with service life he would find it difficult to tell his family. I actually hope he is AWOL as I don't want the worst to have happened to him. The longer it goes I doubt this yet there is no evidence of anything else that we know at the moment.

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[MidsummersDay]

Totally agree! I mentioned this a few threads ago as it just doesn't seem the right behaviour to me for someone who's meant to be happy go lucky and the life and soul of the party. You'd want that person with you wouldn't you to make sure your night was fun?! Instead he was left in camp to make his own way into town, went to Flex by himself and spoke to strangers all night, was asked to leave and none of his group noticed, spent 2 hours asleep in the street and was missing for 48 hours before his mates realised.

When I read that back I immediately think AWOL but will no doubt change my mind again by the morning!

I'm not necessarily thinking AWOL now....I'm thinking desperation. Someone who needs attention, and intimate attention at that.

I posted a few weeks ago about him going AWOL. I was sure of the logistics of it. Now I'm still sure of the logistics of it but for a different reason. He still needs to get away, he still needs help to do that, he still needs transport, he still needs affection.....this now has more of the hallmarks of some sort of hookup than ever.

Everything that has happened that night suggests a person who is or has been ostracised. He's loud, he's flamboyant, he's the team medic so he stands out from his brick. He wears different clothes, he seems to occasionally be a social hand granade. He looking for some social interaction and his mates have disowned him to a certain degree. <modsnip>
I can now see a hookup developing in his mind. Read through the timeline again and try to imagine it. It's not too difficult.


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[Northern Light]

I think his family have their opinion on what has happened (third party) and aren't willing to see other options as being possible. They obviously love Corrie and I can completely see why they wouldn't want to believe he could just go AWOL and not contact them, or that they wouldn't want to believe he's capable of ending his life. But I think both of those are options that must be explored.

Last year my friends husband walked out infront of a train. No prior changes in his behaviour, no warning signs, no hint of depression. To all friends and family he was happy and enjoying life. But clearly he had demons that still they don't know about. It's clearly very possible to hide mental illness from your loved ones. Even easier to hide that side of you when your family and closest friends are hundreds of miles away.

I totally agree. And as a parent with a son in his early twenties, living hundreds of miles away, there are aspects of his life and about him that I will know nothing about, so I don't understand how a family can with absolute conviction, say that they know their son's mind and what he would or wouldn't do. We know what each of us allows outwardly and what emotions and feelings we choose to portray. JMO With mental health, very complex.