UK UK - Corrie McKeague, 23, Bury St Edmunds, 24 September 2016 #12

[Diamba85]

You have just illustrated why only "those two" have come forward so far. I have also had a thought why the doorway footage and no other footage between 3.08 and 3.24 had been shown. After sending the photo perhaps C nodded off again and dropped the phone. Some youngsters come by and rob him. He wakes and gives chase but they give him the slip. Going into the H/S to see if they are there..... The police may have agreed that the thieves would not be in trouble if they just come forward... phone is traced in bin.....AJMO

IMO that's extremely realistic.


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[Greater Than]

I believe it was stated in a previous post by a poster purporting to be a friend of a friend.


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We have no verified insiders in this case, so it (and anything else unverifiable) is considered rumor and not permitted.

Thanks.

 

[MidsummersDay]

Not posted for a while but still lurking and waiting for more info.
Re the 55 minute " wait" Two things spring to mind.
1st... if it was a Hook up then sitting in a car for 55 mins then following the bin Lorry suggests to me that they were getting to know each other first before moving on so that would suggest a stranger?? Female ??? And also surely the vehicle would be closely behind the bin lorry and easily picked up on CCTV.
On the other hand if a quick hook up to get Jiggy then IMO they would quickly exit in the vehicle so not to be spotted in the HS (But this doesn't explain the Phone)
I Do have a bizarre theory on the 55 mins though........ Corrie spotting someone he recognised near to the rehab centre, being invited in, something happening, corrie bundled into the vehicle of interest .. the perp being someone in a public or high media position hence police and family having to get 110 % concrete evidence before proceeding ( Yes I know its mad but who knows )

It explains the phone. The phone slips down the side of the seat. It doesn't explain how Corrie exits BSE without being seen though.

I doubt he'd know anyone at Focus 12. The environment is totally confidential. Possible but not probable IMHO.

Bumping into a minor celeb outside F12 is a possibility. I can't see them being intentionally instrumental in the demise of Corrie though.

JMO


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[MidsummersDay]

The hole I see in the first scenario is that he would still have his phone, with battery life between his accident and his death. Why wouldn't he call for help?

2nd scenario more plausible but if all drivers have been identified and spoken to then why the delay in an arrest? Even if just to place listening devices in the perps house (unless sovereignty laws prevent this).

Good points...
Scenario one:
Unconscious?
No signal?
Water logged?
Damaged?

Scenario two:
Unknown as of yet. Formulating a theory.


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[KaiserSauzee]

EDIT: Having now read the Q&A with Corries mum, I believe that the bin lorry timings were actually only around 4 minutes (not far off what I suggest below). Therefore please disregard the bulk of this post.

One other area that is of interest, is the bin lorry timings. If I am reading the timeline correctly, it took around 30 minutes to park up and load ONE bin with just 11kgs of material in it. Okay there is paperwork etc, but 30 minutes? When the bin lorry comes to our work the driver doesnt even get out, a large arm with forks extends over the front of his cab and lifts the bin back over the top of the cab and deposits the cardboard into the skip bin section of the lorry. The whole process takes about 2 minutes flat at the very most. (I know because the bin shelter area is the designated smoking area and also right next to our warehouse main doors, so I witness it quite regularly).



My theory: Corrie was hanging around hoping to sober up so he could drive his car back in the morning. He hopped into cardboard bin for a few hours kip then accidentally got tipped into refuse truck. During trucks journey back to the depot he has somehow exited it. Possibly disorientated/injured/concused he has wandered into the forrest/river and perished.

 

[jessie]

If his phone was opportunistically thrown into the bin lorry, in the very short time that it was actually in the Horseshoe, I would think, who was spotted in that area at that time and by whom?
IIRC, the lorry driver saw the teenagers. Would that make sense?

EDIT: Just noticed cross-post. I'm way behind today!!!

Truly I am sorry after following all this, but we cannot be confident his phone was in that bin lorry.

There is really no evidence to support this, just assumption due to some pings/pongs.

IF C had been separated from his phone (maybe consider circumstances this may have happened?)

then where is Corrie?? This is the big question, not where his phone is/may be imo.

 

[Hermit Holmes]

I'll double second that - great to have some more newbies and doubly great they're sharing their prof exp with us.

Hermit , IDK if this interests you.

Poster "trefew" put this up a couple of days ago.( I think it was that poster) Flex club licensing reports.

https://democracy.westsuffolk.gov.uk/documents/s5942/Review of Premises Licence - Appendix 2.pdf

PS Hermit, what's your view about his gait/stumbling/degree of drunkenness on the CCTV, just cause you've been in the business many years.

Wow, a quick scan of that licence review makes very interesting reading. Without saying too much, there certainly was a mistake made letting a customer in who openly admits he is drunk. I must say, with that level of history within the nightclub, i'm surprised it has a licence at all! I'd expect the club to be in constant supervision by licensing authorities and the Police with that level and varied criminal activity inside the club. I'd like have another look at that document. I think its very revealing to the sort of clientele that visit the club, and could shed new theory on a potential perpetrator?

I was going to mention Corries gait on the cctv but wanted to study it further. I managed a bar with a guy for many years, we had nicknames and names for everyone and different types of behaviour, you get to know drinkers, and can predict behaviour. You get angry drunk, happy drunk, sad drunk, crying drunk, over friendly drunk etc etc.

Corrie looks like a happy drunk, never likely to cause a problem himself, but possibly his personality and larger than life character could rub less open minded people up the wrong way. So as a doorman/manager, you just wouldn't be watching him, but, watching others , how they are reacting to him.

So his gait....When he has his food in the hand walking round the corner where the two figures are blacked out...My interpretation...He's got beer in his belly, 'beer fuel' 'beer power'..he's walking well, with purpose you can sense the 'beer power' but his feet and his legs are pretty stable...Then as he rounds the corner and passes the people, he drops something. There, his legs just seem to give a little, a little wobble. My feeling here, is that where he may realise that he's a little drunk. The booze, the takeaway games, fresh air, hot food, brisk walk, may just have caught up with him in that moment. It 'came over him' so to speak. That's what maybe influenced his decision to sit in the doorway. Just have a moment, finish his food, get his head together etc..

On the clip of him entering the horseshoe, his gait, body language is different. This gives me the impression that he's sobering up, heading to a hangover, that mood, that energy, no more larger than life, more....'****, i've just woke up in a doorway, bit cold, need a pee, headache, not sure how i'm getting home etc

If i'm desperate for a pee, my hands are in my pocket, maybe that explains his hands?

He's a little more stumbly, and less footsure, but to me that is more coming round from a drunken sleep in a doorway, not a sign of being drunk..

That's my thoughts...
HH

 

[lusijay]

Please find below, a transcript of the Live Q & A with Nicola Urquhart, Corrie's mother. I am currently transcribing part two and will post this in a few hours.
Just so people can use as a reference. I asked admin permission first as I was't sure if I was allowed to post this. Hope it helps. x




FACEBOOK LIVE Q & A - SESSION ONE 28/12/2016


On the subject of Corrie leaving the horseshoe - He cannot leave the horseshoe on foot without being seen on the CCTV.


*User asks if the slurry pits at the sugar beet factory have been searched*


The slurry pits at Sugar Beet factory are fenced all the way around, police decided he shouldn't have been able to get in without CCTV or security guards catching him so they've allowed security to monitor it on their own. With slurry pits they know its dangerous and they have full assistance of the security monitoring as if Corrie has come in it means he would rise to top if he was in one of slurry pits.


*User asks if any mutual aid from other forces?*


MIT team part of Norfolk and Suffolk are involved but we don't know if they've asked for more assistance. Thats’ something for police to answer, i’ll gather questions for them and send an open letter soon.


*User asks do we have any positive leads?*


Not easy to answer, as we know Corrie has gone into the horseshoe area at 3.25 and has not been seen leaving on foot, only 4 vehicles go in between 3am and 6am - one is the BIFFA bin lorry at 4.20 and it takes 4 minutes to pick up the one bin from Greggs, which is predominantly cardboard and packaging, the way they charge the businesses is they weigh rubbish that they take so it was weighed in the bin before going into the back of lorry and it was about 11 kg. It was calibrated and there was seen to be a margin of error of a few grams. The police looked back at the previous 7 months history for that specific bin and it was always between 10 and 15 kg. Corrie probably weighs between 85 and 90 kg so there’s no way he was physically in the bin. Could there be other options? Yes but as far as him falling asleep or climbing in by mistake we appear to be able to rule that out.


The bin lorry has then left Bury St Edmunds and it has driven direct to barton mills roundabout then Waitrose (supermarket) in Mildenhall and picked up a bin there. The bin man can be seen doing his job as normal on CCTV there. He picks up rubbish and carries on with the rest of his shift. Now I’ve explained what’s happened with lorry but police also had a collision investigator to check the outside and under the vehicle to see if there are any signs of an accident and they had investigators check in the rear of the bin wagon and in the cab for any signs he had been there. That was a few weeks after Corrie went missing but still no trace of him in that vehicle and no trace at the scene by CSI that he'd been run over by the lorry or something happened there.


There is a reversing camera on the lorry but it doesn’t record. The driver has been spoken to on a number of occasions. He arrived at 4.20am and thought he saw Corrie in the horseshoe but through investigation by the police, this male is seen on CCTV there but it isn't Corrie. He has now been identified as people saw him on the footage in the pod and I have too, it was a man standing using his phone so it’s not the case that the bin man saw Corrie.


*User asks is it possible he jumped into the rear without being seen by the bin man*


Yes, it would be possible but CCTV sees the vehicle leave and has smooth sides so he couldn't hold on to it and he cant be seen on or under it as it leaves the horseshoe - given all of that though his phone left barton mills at 4.25am in the same direction as the bin lorry and has last been triangulated at the micro mass at Barton Mills. This doesn’t mean it was at Barton Mills, it means it was between 3-5km near the mass and there are other roads that you could be on and phone would still triangulate at that Barton Mills mass although common sense says that if he's been in that area and the bin lorry has too, and both left and triangulated within 1 min an half of the bin lorry being there its most likely that the phone has been in the bin lorry. We asked police to make enquires as to if the phone would work in the back of bin lorry as it may act as a faraday cage and we’re waiting for results. The results won’t be scientific but will give us reassurance that he hasn't been in the lorry with his phone.


It appears his phone has probably gone with the bin lorry and ended up at the tip but we couldn't be sure that he hasn't climbed in the back so we looked at the process the bin goes through at the local tip.


So, the bin lorry goes through a few different process. First, it dumps off everything from the back and it’s then sorted into 2 piles. One for incineration and rest is to landfill or recycling. It’s then sorted and put into other piles. BIFFA and the police believe Corrie’s mobile could go through this process and not be seen, but a body is too large to go through without being seen going to landfill. Incineration is a different matter. The process is that the burners are 1100 degrees celsius because they try to protect the metals that go through. Bone cant be burnt at that temperature, it has to be 1600 degrees average so if Corrie ended up there the process is that anything left goes to a conveyer belt which is operated and sorted by hand so metals can be taken, I understand on paper it’s easy to explain that’s how it works and it shouldn't be case that he would go unnoticed, however we will be looking for more reassurance of how it physically happens. As a family we are not happy that the tip wasn't searched.


I believe there are ways of getting information from his social media accounts and phone but without getting his phone physically, things like whatsapp you can’t see. Police can get numbers and times but they cant access the messages themselves. There could simply be a request to meet at this time etc and we need this to get more hope this is a mistake that’s been made, but it’s private land so we won’t ever be able to search with out permission, we haven’t stopped trying to get this to happen though.




*User asks could the phone have been taken by the bin man?*


I don't like to say this as he is utterly innocent and I don't want him to feel this is an attack on him but it is a question we have asked police. We’ve asked them to put a phone in the cab to see if still can get a signal.


*User asks have the flats been searched in horseshoe area?*


In the horseshoe a lot of properties look like flats but are not, apart from one. All others are business premises e.g Greggs, Eye Candy, Super Drug etc and nobody lives above. The only way to gain access to above these shops is at the front of the shops, except for one building which is accessed through a large white gate and this place is called Focus 12, a drug rehab accommodation for people to stay whilst in rehab. This centre has been searched forensically on a number of occasions and they have complied with all requests. There was apparently nobody staying that weekend that Corrie went missing, however i was standing outside on another week when two men walked out and I asked them and they said “Don't say anything as we’re not supposed to be here”. So the police have been told nobody was there, but I know people stay when they’re not supposed to. But there is only so much the police can do if people aren't being honest with them.


A large problem I have had from the start is although the horseshoe has been forensically searched and helicopters and cadaver dogs have searched back to front and top to bottom and been in every single room in horseshoe, there’s no sign, however they haven't done the same on the other side of the road. As easy as he can get into a property in the horseshoe, he could have got into property on the other side of the road.


*End Session*

 

[Greater Than]

I'm seeing a few posts with some concerns regarding posts about Corrie.

Just to clarify, as stated in the victim friendly rule below, discussing a victim/missing person's behavior - good or bad - is allowed, as long as it is constructive and relevant.

Corrie's behavior the night he went missing is relevant. It may be the cause of his disappearance; it may not be. But discussion of his behavior as a possible factor is certainly permitted, as long as it doesn't cross the line into victim blaming or bashing.

Corrie's sexual preference, however, has been addressed by his family early on in the Q&A section of their website, as well as just a few days ago in the FB live Q&A chat. The family has categorically disputed the notion that Corrie is gay. Unless someone can point me in the direction of evidence to support the theory that he is (wears pink shirts and an earring, has a puppy, likes to sing Broadway musical songs, or the like, won't suffice), then we are going to accept his family's position on his sexuality. Please do not continue to suggest otherwise.

As always, if you see a post you feel is offensive or is in violation of the rules, please hit the alert button (red triangle at the bottom of the post) to report it.

Thank you.


The Rules - Etiquette & Information

VICTIM FRIENDLY

Websleuths is a victim friendly forum. Attacking or bashing a victim is not allowed. Discussing victim behavior, good or bad is fine, but do so in a civil and constructive way, and only when such behavior is relevant to the case.

The "victim friendly" rule extends to the family members of victims and suspects. Sleuthing family members, friends, and others who have not been designated as suspects is not allowed. Don't make random accusations, suggest their involvement, nor bash and attack them. Posting their personal information, including names, addresses, and background data -- even if it is public -- is not allowed. That does not mean, however, that statements made by family members and other third parties cannot come into discussion as the facts of the case are reported in the media.

 

[KaiserSauzee]

Truly I am sorry after following all this, but we cannot be confident his phone was in that bin lorry.

There is really no evidence to support this, just assumption due to some pings/pongs.

IF C had been separated from his phone (maybe consider circumstances this may have happened?)

then where is Corrie?? This is the big question, not where his phone is/may be imo.

I disagree.

There is more evidence to suggest that his phone was in the bin lorry than not.

Other assumptions such as him being in a car behind the bin lorry are much more far fetched imho.

My theory: Corrie was hanging around hoping to sober up so he could drive his car back in the morning. He hopped into cardboard bin for a few hours kip then accidentally got tipped into refuse truck. During trucks journey back to the depot he has somehow exited it. Possibly disorientated/injured/concused he has wandered into the forrest/river and perished.

 

[cotswoldemmie]

Is it beyond the realms of possibility that a "social hand grenade" who was pretty drunk, "talking to everyone" that night, apparently very "in your face", who would "go off with total strangers", could resist an open door, with the possibility of people/a party/somewhere warm to sleep inside?
Making his way past the entrance to the horseshoe, the open door of Focus 12/whatever the place is, catches his eye, he looks around sheepishly to see if anyone is about to catch him going in, realises there isn't and he heads off inside.
Person inside thinks he's a burglar/dangerous, bops him on the head with something, kills him or Corrie disturbs something he shouldn't have.
Not sure what happens next but the perp at some point, maybe for the second time that evening, exits the building, opportunistically throws phone, keys, wallet in the bin trunk as it leaves.

Seems a fairly simple theory. Corrie remains there until perp can find a means to dispose of the body, phone & other things in the bin headed towards Mildenhall recycling.
Sadly the expression curiosity and a cat, comes to mind.

Just my thoughts...

 

[cottonweaver]

Thanks for that Hermit H.
can't remember the capacity now but was hoping to get some Flux customers on WS here when we were discussing where it was safe to be a bit different/ more tolerant. ( Based on experience of city bars/clubs and on Corrie's larger than life personality.)
I know their closing time was at 3. How long in your exp, would it take for all staff to exit there?

 

[cottonweaver]

Please find below, a transcript of the Live Q & A with Nicola Urquhart, Corrie's mother. I am currently transcribing part two and will post this in a few hours.
Just so people can use as a reference. I asked admin permission first as I was't sure if I was allowed to post this. Hope it helps. x............

snipped

Brilliant , thankyou.

 

[Greater Than]

I have new thread prepared.

This one will close in about 10 minutes.

 

[KaiserSauzee]

Please find below, a transcript of the Live Q & A with Nicola Urquhart, Corrie's mother. I am currently transcribing part two and will post this in a few hours.
Just so people can use as a reference. I asked admin permission first as I was't sure if I was allowed to post this. Hope it helps. x




FACEBOOK LIVE Q & A - SESSION ONE 28/12/2016


On the subject of Corrie leaving the horseshoe - He cannot leave the horseshoe on foot without being seen on the CCTV.


*User asks if the slurry pits at the sugar beet factory have been searched*


The slurry pits at Sugar Beet factory are fenced all the way around, police decided he shouldn't have been able to get in without CCTV or security guards catching him so they've allowed security to monitor it on their own. With slurry pits they know its dangerous and they have full assistance of the security monitoring as if Corrie has come in it means he would rise to top if he was in one of slurry pits.


*User asks if any mutual aid from other forces?*


MIT team part of Norfolk and Suffolk are involved but we don't know if they've asked for more assistance. Thats’ something for police to answer, i’ll gather questions for them and send an open letter soon.


*User asks do we have any positive leads?*


Not easy to answer, as we know Corrie has gone into the horseshoe area at 3.25 and has not been seen leaving on foot, only 4 vehicles go in between 3am and 6am - one is the BIFFA bin lorry at 4.20 and it takes 4 minutes to pick up the one bin from Greggs, which is predominantly cardboard and packaging, the way they charge the businesses is they weigh rubbish that they take so it was weighed in the bin before going into the back of lorry and it was about 11 kg. It was calibrated and there was seen to be a margin of error of a few grams. The police looked back at the previous 7 months history for that specific bin and it was always between 10 and 15 kg. Corrie probably weighs between 85 and 90 kg so there’s no way he was physically in the bin. Could there be other options? Yes but as far as him falling asleep or climbing in by mistake we appear to be able to rule that out.


The bin lorry has then left Bury St Edmunds and it has driven direct to barton mills roundabout then Waitrose (supermarket) in Mildenhall and picked up a bin there. The bin man can be seen doing his job as normal on CCTV there. He picks up rubbish and carries on with the rest of his shift. Now I’ve explained what’s happened with lorry but police also had a collision investigator to check the outside and under the vehicle to see if there are any signs of an accident and they had investigators check in the rear of the bin wagon and in the cab for any signs he had been there. That was a few weeks after Corrie went missing but still no trace of him in that vehicle and no trace at the scene by CSI that he'd been run over by the lorry or something happened there.


There is a reversing camera on the lorry but it doesn’t record. The driver has been spoken to on a number of occasions. He arrived at 4.20am and thought he saw Corrie in the horseshoe but through investigation by the police, this male is seen on CCTV there but it isn't Corrie. He has now been identified as people saw him on the footage in the pod and I have too, it was a man standing using his phone so it’s not the case that the bin man saw Corrie.


*User asks is it possible he jumped into the rear without being seen by the bin man*


Yes, it would be possible but CCTV sees the vehicle leave and has smooth sides so he couldn't hold on to it and he cant be seen on or under it as it leaves the horseshoe - given all of that though his phone left barton mills at 4.25am in the same direction as the bin lorry and has last been triangulated at the micro mass at Barton Mills. This doesn’t mean it was at Barton Mills, it means it was between 3-5km near the mass and there are other roads that you could be on and phone would still triangulate at that Barton Mills mass although common sense says that if he's been in that area and the bin lorry has too, and both left and triangulated within 1 min an half of the bin lorry being there its most likely that the phone has been in the bin lorry. We asked police to make enquires as to if the phone would work in the back of bin lorry as it may act as a faraday cage and we’re waiting for results. The results won’t be scientific but will give us reassurance that he hasn't been in the lorry with his phone.


It appears his phone has probably gone with the bin lorry and ended up at the tip but we couldn't be sure that he hasn't climbed in the back so we looked at the process the bin goes through at the local tip.


So, the bin lorry goes through a few different process. First, it dumps off everything from the back and it’s then sorted into 2 piles. One for incineration and rest is to landfill or recycling. It’s then sorted and put into other piles. BIFFA and the police believe Corrie’s mobile could go through this process and not be seen, but a body is too large to go through without being seen going to landfill. Incineration is a different matter. The process is that the burners are 1100 degrees celsius because they try to protect the metals that go through. Bone cant be burnt at that temperature, it has to be 1600 degrees average so if Corrie ended up there the process is that anything left goes to a conveyer belt which is operated and sorted by hand so metals can be taken, I understand on paper it’s easy to explain that’s how it works and it shouldn't be case that he would go unnoticed, however we will be looking for more reassurance of how it physically happens. As a family we are not happy that the tip wasn't searched.


I believe there are ways of getting information from his social media accounts and phone but without getting his phone physically, things like whatsapp you can’t see. Police can get numbers and times but they cant access the messages themselves. There could simply be a request to meet at this time etc and we need this to get more hope this is a mistake that’s been made, but it’s private land so we won’t ever be able to search with out permission, we haven’t stopped trying to get this to happen though.




*User asks could the phone have been taken by the bin man?*


I don't like to say this as he is utterly innocent and I don't want him to feel this is an attack on him but it is a question we have asked police. We’ve asked them to put a phone in the cab to see if still can get a signal.


*User asks have the flats been searched in horseshoe area?*


In the horseshoe a lot of properties look like flats but are not, apart from one. All others are business premises e.g Greggs, Eye Candy, Super Drug etc and nobody lives above. The only way to gain access to above these shops is at the front of the shops, except for one building which is accessed through a large white gate and this place is called Focus 12, a drug rehab accommodation for people to stay whilst in rehab. This centre has been searched forensically on a number of occasions and they have complied with all requests. There was apparently nobody staying that weekend that Corrie went missing, however i was standing outside on another week when two men walked out and I asked them and they said “Don't say anything as we’re not supposed to be here”. So the police have been told nobody was there, but I know people stay when they’re not supposed to. But there is only so much the police can do if people aren't being honest with them.


A large problem I have had from the start is although the horseshoe has been forensically searched and helicopters and cadaver dogs have searched back to front and top to bottom and been in every single room in horseshoe, there’s no sign, however they haven't done the same on the other side of the road. As easy as he can get into a property in the horseshoe, he could have got into property on the other side of the road.


*End Session*

Excellent post thank you.

Certainly helps to clarify a few points that I was not aware of, such as the timings of the bin lorry uplift and when the bin lorry weighs the load + the fact that it was checked for calibration. This makes a big difference to my viewpoint.

I still believe that his phone & (now possibly) Corrie were in that bin lorry, I will need to have a think over some possible scenarios.

My theory: Corrie was hanging around hoping to sober up so he could drive his car back in the morning. He hopped into cardboard bin for a few hours kip then accidentally got tipped into refuse truck. During trucks journey back to the depot he has somehow exited it. Possibly disorientated/injured/concused he has wandered into the forrest/river and perished.

 

[Greater Than]

This thread is now closed.

Please continue on Thread #13