UK UK - Daniel Morgan, 37, Sydenham, London, 10 Mar 1987

[Legally Bland]

Family of murdered Daniel Morgan to sue Met for damages

 

[Legally Bland]

About time too! Justice has been kept away from Daniel’s family for far too long and the perpetrator(s), who are known, have continued to live their lives for the last 32 years. The Met Police have totally failed this man.
I don’t want to get or be all political but what is shameful is that quite rightly, Steven Lawrence was subjected to many enquiries too and Lord McPherson chaired an enquiry into his death where he accused the Police of incompetence on the basis of Steven being black and therefore it was endemic institutionalised racism.
I have some difficulty with that when compared to Daniel Morgan’s murder because he too was murdered , incidentally (it’s alleged) by other Police and former Police officers . The Met Police were incompetent in this enquiry and investigation too, as they were with Stevens , and yet this is not and never had been a high profile murder enquiry. Daniel was white . Its not always about racism although I accept that people in these minority communities do suffer, and on some occasions, depending on where they live, it’s disproportionate and some suffer tremendously and I think it’s absolutely disgusting and it’s something that should be addressed every single day.
However, sometimes we just have to say that the Met Police were incompetent in both of these investigations because they were just that , incompetent!!
#justice for Daniel Morgan

Your logic is flawed, your conflation of the two cases doesn't mean that the incompetence in one of the cases wasn't because of institutional racism. There quite clearly was institutional racism involved in the StePHen Lawrence investigation, whether it was treating a victim and witness as a suspect or surveilling Stephen's parents, the only reason it happened is because they are black.

I don't know whether you genuinely don't understand what institutional racism is, or are deliberately misrepresenting it, but either way I find your comment disgraceful.

Feel free to disagree with me, but I would appreciate it if you quoted from the Macpherson report as to what exactly you disagree with.

https://assets.publishing.service.g.../uploads/attachment_data/file/277111/4262.pdf

 

[Angleterre]

Your logic is flawed, your conflation of the two cases doesn't mean that the incompetence in one of the cases wasn't because of institutional racism. There quite clearly was institutional racism involved in the StePHen Lawrence investigation, whether it was treating a victim and witness as a suspect or surveilling Stephen's parents, the only reason it happened is because they are black.

I don't know whether you genuinely don't understand what institutional racism is, or are deliberately misrepresenting it, but either way I find your comment disgraceful.

Feel free to disagree with me, but I would appreciate it if you quoted from the Macpherson report as to what exactly you disagree with.

https://assets.publishing.service.g.../uploads/attachment_data/file/277111/4262.pdf

There is so much from the McPherson report that I disagree with
I do understand what Institutional racism is and I don’t appreciate the ‘disgraceful’ comment
I lived through this whilst a serving member of the Police and there was so much damage done by some of the representations of the McPherson report because it wasn’t and isn’t all that simple
Genuine police officers suffered
Those that were and are racist deserve the label as being a racist officer
However nobody suffered more than Doreen Lawrence at the loss of her son
As did Daniel Morgan mother
My point is that sometimes we just have to say that the MET ( not my force ) were incompetent
I am not going here any further with you on this thread because it’s about Daniel Morgan and he deserves his story to be heard
There’s no malice intended in my comments and maybe I have worded it badly but irrespective of that , the Met didn’t give this investigation the justice it deserved and it’s still happening to this day .
I worked on the Anthony Walker enquiry and we sought proper justice for him as a racially motivated murdered man . The team who investigated it, did so properly and professionally. The Met didn’t ! There needs to be a huge overhaul of a lot of their dealings .
So I will leave it there because I’m not as I said in my post, getting political. There’s hours worth of conversation that I could have with you on this exact subject.
So please, feel free to PM me and when I have time, I will enter into dialogue.
Have a great day. A

 

[Legally Bland]

There is so much from the McPherson report that I disagree with
I do understand what Institutional racism is and I don’t appreciate the ‘disgraceful’ comment
I lived through this whilst a serving member of the Police and there was so much damage done by some of the representations of the McPherson report because it wasn’t and isn’t all that simple
Genuine police officers suffered
Those that were and are racist deserve the label as being a racist officer
However nobody suffered more than Doreen Lawrence at the loss of her son
As did Daniel Morgan mother
My point is that sometimes we just have to say that the MET ( not my force ) were incompetent
I am not going here any further with you on this thread because it’s about Daniel Morgan and he deserves his story to be heard
There’s no malice intended in my comments and maybe I have worded it badly but irrespective of that , the Met didn’t give this investigation the justice it deserved and it’s still happening to this day .
I worked on the Anthony Walker enquiry and we sought proper justice for him as a racially motivated murdered man . The team who investigated it, did so properly and professionally. The Met didn’t ! There needs to be a huge overhaul of a lot of their dealings .
So I will leave it there because I’m not as I said in my post, getting political. There’s hours worth of conversation that I could have with you on this exact subject.
So please, feel free to PM me and when I have time, I will enter into dialogue.
Have a great day. A

The only person to conflate the investigations of Stephen Lawrence and Daniel Morgan is you. It's unfortunate that it's on this thread, but here we are. I have no inclination to PM you, I'm perfectly happy to air my opinions in public. I don't think you do understand institutional racism, you're misinterpreting it as overt racism. It's really very clear that by saying the police is institutionally racist, it isn't calling you, or your colleagues, racist. Seeing as you don't seem willing to quote the report I will:

6.6 The phrase "institutional racism" has been the subject of much debate. We accept that there are dangers in allowing the phrase to be used in order to try to express some overall criticism of the police, or any other organisation, without addressing its meaning. Books and articles on the subject proliferate. We must do our best to express what we mean by those words, although we stress that we will not produce a definition cast in stone, or a final answer to the question. What we hope to do is to set out our standpoint, so that at least our application of the term to the present case can be understood by those who are criticised.​

6.7 In 1981 Lord Scarman's Report into The Brixton Disorders was presented to Parliament. In that seminal report Lord Scarman responded to the suggestion that "Britain is an institutionally racist society,"in this way:-​

"If, by [institutionally racist] it is meant that it [Britain]is a society which knowingly, as a matter of policy, discriminates against black people, I reject the allegation. If, however, the suggestion being made is that practices may be adopted by public bodies as well as private individuals which are unwittingly discriminatory against black people, then this is an allegation which deserves serious consideration, and, where proved, swift remedy". (Para 2.22, p 11 -Scarman Report). ​

6.8 In policing terms Lord Scarman also rejected the allegation that the MPS was a racist force. He said:-​

"The direction and policies of the Metropolitan Police are not racist. I totally and unequivocally reject the attack made upon the integrity and impartiality of the senior direction of the force. The criticisms lie elsewhere -in errors of judgment, in a lack of imagination and flexibility, but not in deliberate bias or prejudice". (Para 4.62, p 64).

6.9 Lord Scarman accepted that some police officers, particularly those below the level of the senior direction of the force were guilty of "ill considered immature and racially prejudiced actions .... in their dealings on the streets with young black people". (Para 4.63, p 64). He stressed that "racist" prejudice and behaviour "does occur and every instance of it has an immense impact on community attitudes and beliefs. The damage done by even the occasional display of racial prejudice is incalculable. It is therefore essential that every possible step be taken to prevent and to root out racially prejudiced attitudes in the police service. The police cannot rest on the argument that since they are a cross-section of society some officers are bound to be racially prejudiced. In this respect, as in others, the standards we apply to the police must be higher than the norms of behaviour prevalent in society as a whole". (Para 4.64, p 64).​

6.10 Lord Scarman (Para 4.63) moreover referred specifically to the dangers of "racist" stereotyping when he said:​

"Racial prejudice does manifest itself occasionally in the behaviour of a few officers on the street. It may be only too easy for some officers, faced with what they must see as the inexorably rising tide of street crime, to lapse into an unthinking assumption that all young black people are potential criminals".​

6.11 Such assumptions are still made today. In answer to a question posed to a member of the MPS Black Police Association, Inspector Leroy Logan, he referred to "what is said in the canteen", citing simply as an example his memory that " ... as a Sergeant I was in the back of a car and a female white officer on seeing a black person driving a very nice car just said "I wonder who he robbed to get that?", and she then realised she was actually voicing an unconscious assumption". (Part 2, Day 2, p 215). This is a mere example of similar experiences repeatedly given to us during our public meetings.​

6.12 Lord Scarman further said:-​

"All the evidence I have received, both on the subject of racial disadvantage and more generally, suggests that racialism and discrimination against black people -often hidden, sometimes unconscious -remain a major source of social tension and conflict". (Para 6.35, p 110). ​

6.13 Thus Lord Scarman accepted the existence of what he termed "unwitting" or "unconscious" racism. To those adjectives can be added a third, namely "unintentional". All three words are familiar in the context of any discussion in this field. The Commissioner used all three in his letter written to the Inquiry on 2 October 1998, after his appearance at Hannibal House during our hearings.​

6.14 Dr Oakley indicates (in his first submission to the Inquiry, Paragraph 2) that in spite of Lord Scarman's use of the words "hidden and unconscious" and "unwitting" the concept of "racist conduct" that became established following his Report "was one of overt acts of discrimination or hostility by individuals who were acting out their personal prejudices. Racism was therefore a problem specifically of individual officers, of 'rotten apples' within the service who 'let the side down'. On this diagnosis, the solution to the problem would lie (a) at the selection stage, at which prejudiced individuals should be identified and weeded out, and (b) through the application of disciplinary sanctions against those who display such behaviour on the job. This conception of racism appears still to be the normal understanding in police circles, and appears also to have informed the conclusion by the PCA".​

6.15 When Lord Scarman asserted in his final conclusion that "institutional racism does not exist in Britain: but racial disadvantage and its nasty associate racial discrimination have not yet been eliminated", (Para 9.1, p 135), many took this statement as the classic defence against all allegations that "institutional racism"exists in British society. His earlier words "knowingly, as a matter of policy, discriminates" and "practices may be adopted .... which are unwittingly discriminatory, "were not separated and given equal weight. Whilst we must never lose sight of the importance of explicit racism and direct discrimination, in policing terms if the phrase "institutional racism" had been used to describe not only explicit manifestations of racism at direction and policy level, but also unwitting discrimination at the organisational level, then the reality of indirect racism in its more subtle, hidden and potentially more pervasive nature would have been addressed.

https://assets.publishing.service.g.../uploads/attachment_data/file/277111/4262.pdf​

 

[dotr]

2021

From Jill Dando to a 'torso in the Thames' - 11 murders still unsolved

From the murder of a TV star to a banker gunned down at his front door while his children slept upstairs, some of Britain's most horrific murders have remained unsolved for decades.

www.dailymail.co.uk

''The murder of private investigator Daniel Morgan has been dubbed the 'most investigated unsolved murder in the history of the Metropolitan Police'.

The father-of-two was was found with an axe embedded in his heat at a pub car park in Sydenham, south east London, on March 10, 1987.

Two sticky plaster strips had been wrapped around the handle of the axe to protect from any fingerprint evidence.

Despite five police inquiries and an inquest, no-one has been brought to justice over the murder in more than 30 years.

The private investigator had been looking into allegations of police corruption when he was killed.''

''A damning inquiry that concluded in June earlier this year branded the force 'institutionally corrupt'.

It added that the force had been more interested in protecting its reputation than solving the murder.

The more than 1,200-page report also said the Met's handling of the murder scene in 1987 was 'totally inadequate' as it was not secured and was left unguarded.

It added that officers who took bungs in brown envelopes, 'moonlighted' in other jobs and sold lucrative information to criminals, may have scuppered the probe into Mr Morgan's murder.

Following the inquiry, Met Commissioner Dame Cressida Dick said it is a 'matter of great regret that no one has been brought to justice' in the case of Mr Morgan.''

 

[ctaylor]

Thank you @dotr , honestly I think the Daniel Morgan case is just so mired in corruption involving so many people that we will never get an actual admission to what actually happened. However I think we all know it was a major cover up.

 

[CSIAngus]

Thank you @dotr , honestly I think the Daniel Morgan case is just so mired in corruption involving so many people that we will never get an actual admission to what actually happened. However I think we all know it was a major cover up.

The perpetrator is pretty obvious but the waters are so muddied now by corruption, incompetence and deliberate obstruction that they will never be brought to justice.

 

[sds71]

We have apologised to the family of Daniel Morgan after documents were found. Some of these should have been disclosed to the inquiry into his murder. We are working with others to fully understand the impact.

Update: Documents relevant to Daniel Morgan Independent Panel found

A careful assessment has been completed to understand the significance of the documents and any potential impact.

news.met.police.uk

Police forced to apologise after lost Daniel Morgan documents ‘found in cabinet’

Met assisstant commissioner says force is ‘working to understand what has taken place’

www.independent.co.uk

 

[ctaylor]

I don't think sorry cuts it anymore. Honestly, it beggars belief there are even more Met errors on this case. I heard Daniel's brother on radio earlier saying he is almost now immune to getting updates on yet another error. He almost expects it now. It's a long shot but hope these documents might provide some sort of lead or bit of information that might help.

 

[Legally Bland]

Scotland Yard is reportedly to pay a £2m settlement after admitting that the investigation into the unsolved murder of a private detective more than 35 years ago was corrupt and incompetent.

Daniel Morgan: Met to reportedly pay family £2m over ‘corrupt’ murder investigation

No one has ever been convicted after private detective found dead in London pub car park in 1987

www.theguardian.com

 

[RichardKimble]

Apology from the MET. Question is are they actually going to bother to finally solve it.

The Metropolitan police commissioner, Sir Mark Rowley, has admitted the force prioritised its reputation in its handling of the Daniel Morgan murder case over 36 years, as a cycle of corruption, incompetence and defensiveness blighted the search for justice.

The admissions by Britain’s top police officer came as a settlement was announced, which both sides hope will end the Morgan family’s gruelling struggle after the 1987 unsolved murder of the private detective.


Rowley admitted liability for the Met’s errors and corruption, and will pay damages, declaring the family were fobbed off with “empty promises” as well as accepting “multiple and systemic failings”.

Daniel Morgan murder: Met admits failings and pays damages in settlement with family

Force had faced being sued over 1987 axe killing, with corruption and errors blamed for failure to convict perpetrators

www.theguardian.com