Identified! UK - David Lytton, South Pennines, 'Neil Dovestone', 65-75, Dec'15

[CoverMeCagney]

I know someone who is a member of the club. Apparently the present manager Eric got a visit or phone call off the police at the weekend. He's also been asked to appear in a documentary that's being made. I wonder if it could be Jim Gallagher's son Terry. There's a bit more information about the club below.

http://www.oldhamboxing.co.uk/history/

I'm sure I've seen a documentary about this boxing club. Done a little googling and the founder, Jim, died in 1974. I also found a family tree forum where a cousin asked the whereabouts of Ian Gallagher, a former boxing referee, son of Jim & Florence and brother of Terence. Is this the same family? Anyway, within that post it says Terence went off to North Rhodesia (Zambia?).

http://www.rootschat.com/forum/index.php?topic=149658.0

 

[CoverMeCagney]

Could be wrong but I think Jim & Florence married in 1928, which would probably put their sons in the right age bracket as our man.

I hope this is the breakthrough we need!

 

[Pisces Cloud]

It sounds like it might be them. Only time will tell now. If the police believe for sure it's someone connected to the club then I don't think it will be long now before the information is released to the public.

 

[dotr]

March 26/2016

http://www.news.com.au/world/europe...r/news-story/031275ef3170279faede970d46564569

Speculation rages over identity of mystery corpse found on Britain’s Saddleworth Moor

IT’S one of the loneliest landscapes in Britain, beautiful but desolate. A fitting place for a man to take his own life, should he be so inclined, but a very odd place to be murdered.

Those are two of the scenarios faced by investigators trying to make sense of the circumstances surrounding the death of an unidentified man at Saddleworth Moor in the north of England three months ago.

snip>

A post mortem examination revealed a titanium plate in his leg that had been inserted in Pakistan sometime between 2001 and 2015. Police have so far narrowed down their inquiries to 7000 patients. Searches of British DNA databases have found no matches

snip>

If he killed himself, why did he choose strychnine, which is known to cause a slow, agonising death? And why did he buy a return train ticket?

If he was murdered, it must have been at the hands of someone he had arranged to meet at Saddleworth Moor, or who followed him there. The addition of a “rare poison” to this already baffling picture has led to inevitable speculation the man was an international spy.

 

[carbuff]

What about an accident? It's not unheard of to get contaminated food or medication from third-world countries, or the reused bottle could have previously held the poison.

 

[ShakerSince92]

What about an accident? It's not unheard of to get contaminated food or medication from third-world countries, or the reused bottle could have previously held the poison.

Sorry this is my first post and wasn't sure how to post without quoting someone else.

Anyway this case intrigues me. I have been to dovestones reservoir once. From my limited knowledge of the area and a few Google searches I think "Neil Dovestone" died near a place called Ashway Gap House. It no longer stands and has a varied and sometimes tragic history. One on the last owners accidently shot himself on the moors. The house was later used as a hospital in world war one an Italian prisoner of war camp in world war 2 and later used by the water board. Apparently they had some of there annual dinners there. Possible link?

 

[ShakerSince92]

Oh and it was torn down in the 80s.

 

[CoverMeCagney]

Sorry this is my first post and wasn't sure how to post without quoting someone else.

Anyway this case intrigues me. I have been to dovestones reservoir once. From my limited knowledge of the area and a few Google searches I think "Neil Dovestone" died near a place called Ashway Gap House. It no longer stands and has a varied and sometimes tragic history. One on the last owners accidently shot himself on the moors. The house was later used as a hospital in world war one an Italian prisoner of war camp in world war 2 and later used by the water board. Apparently they had some of there annual dinners there. Possible link?

Welcome to Websleuths, great first post!!

Definite possible link, I think there has to be a good reason he went up there to die. Now whether it's because of the plane crash, the moors murders, or something connected to what you've suggested I don't know. It could have just been a regular haunt of his in his youth, or somewhere he and a sweetheart visited.

In my mind there's no doubt it was suicide, and that he specifically chose that spot in advance. Though why he had a cash and a return rail ticket I don't know... I wonder if anything has come of the boxing connection, surely they'd know by now?

 

[ShakerSince92]

Welcome to Websleuths, great first post!!

Definite possible link, I think there has to be a good reason he went up there to die. Now whether it's because of the plane crash, the moors murders, or something connected to what you've suggested I don't know. It could have just been a regular haunt of his in his youth, or somewhere he and a sweetheart visited.

In my mind there's no doubt it was suicide, and that he specifically chose that spot in advance. Though why he had a cash and a return rail ticket I don't know... I wonder if anything has come of the boxing connection, surely they'd know by now?

Thanks for the welcome.

I understand why they have to do it but it's so frustrating not having all the facts and only being drip fed information. For example the money. The police have repeatedly stated how much money he had on him and the quoted figure is a round number. £120 off the top of my head. How so? He bought a train ticket and food items. He clearly didn't use a card of he could have been traced by it so where is the small change? I could go on but I won't bore you. I have a free afternoon so I'm going to see if I can find out any more info on the hospital/pow theory.

 

[dotr]

Thanks for the welcome.

I understand why they have to do it but it's so frustrating not having all the facts and only being drip fed information. For example the money. The police have repeatedly stated how much money he had on him and the quoted figure is a round number. £120 off the top of my head. How so? He bought a train ticket and food items. He clearly didn't use a card of he could have been traced by it so where is the small change? I could go on but I won't bore you. I have a free afternoon so I'm going to see if I can find out any more info on the hospital/pow theory.

Welcome to Ws. ShakerSince92!
In some cultures, the deceased are placed in coffins with items the deceased either once loved or might need in a presumed after-life, maybe that is one possible reason Dove had those items.
Maybe he was delivering those things to someone else, or fulfilling a promise of those things, money and tickets- to somebody- he did not come through for at the time.
Maybe Dove did not intend to die at that spot, or he wanted whomever found his body to know that he was not a homeless person.
Speculation, imo.

 

[Elainera]

Dove? Was that an auto-correct?

 

[dotr]

Dove? Was that an auto-correct?

Sorry, middle of something and wonky hand- door on fingers- meant Doe.
Human, incorrect!

 

[ShakerSince92]

Welcome to Ws. ShakerSince92!
In some cultures, the deceased are placed in coffins with items the deceased either once loved or might need in a presumed after-life, maybe that is one possible reason Dove had those items.
Maybe he was delivering those things to someone else, or fulfilling a promise of those things, money and tickets- to somebody- he did not come through for at the time.
Maybe Dove did not intend to die at that spot, or he wanted whomever found his body to know that he was not a homeless person.
Speculation, imo.

I like that thinking. Certainly would explain a thing or 2.

 

[trendsetter]

I think that some of the difficulty in identifying this man may be due in part to the misleading information that the police have given in their appeals to the public in their attempts to identify him. They have described him as having both blue and brown eyes on separate occasions. He is also said to have no scars - although it has been revealed eventually that he had a 4 inch metal plate attached to his left femur which, according to at least one press report could have been fitted as recently as 2015 - less than a year before he died. It simply isn't plausible that he didn't have a scar as a result of this operation.

 

[CoverMeCagney]

I think that some of the difficulty in identifying this man may be due in part to the misleading information that the police have given in their appeals to the public in their attempts to identify him. They have described him as having both blue and brown eyes on separate occasions. He is also said to have no scars - although it has been revealed eventually that he had a 4 inch metal plate attached to his left femur which, according to at least one press report could have been fitted as recently as 2015 - less than a year before he died. It simply isn't plausible that he didn't have a scar as a result of this operation.

Hi and welcome - very good points!

To me the obvious thing to do is either to release photos of him deceased (not ideal but it does happen), or reconstruct a model of his head. They've got his body and he hadn't be dead long so I don't get why neither of these things have been done. Someone has to recognise him.

 

[dotr]

I think that some of the difficulty in identifying this man may be due in part to the misleading information that the police have given in their appeals to the public in their attempts to identify him. They have described him as having both blue and brown eyes on separate occasions. He is also said to have no scars - although it has been revealed eventually that he had a 4 inch metal plate attached to his left femur which, according to at least one press report could have been fitted as recently as 2015 - less than a year before he died. It simply isn't plausible that he didn't have a scar as a result of this operation.

Welcome to Ws. trendsetter!
Good points about the operation, also if he was recently hospitalized, the UID may have either gained or lost weight, affecting his appearance, imo.

 

[wfgodot]

Well, 130 days on -- at least since the body was found; the mystery may be far deeper -- one could definitely be excused for thinking there's something decidedly peculiar about this lack of (at least public) identity.

 

[trendsetter]

Yes - they publish PM photos on the UK Missing Person Bureau website although hardly ever in mainstream media. The published cctv pictures of this individual are not particularly helpfull - some are just of too poor quality to be useful and others are plain confusing - most show a man with a roundish head but one shows him with a quite distinctive long looking head - they could easily be two different people.

 

[dotr]

Yes - they publish PM photos on the UK Missing Person Bureau website although hardly ever in mainstream media. The published cctv pictures of this individual are not particularly helpfull - some are just of too poor quality to be useful and others are plain confusing - most show a man with a roundish head but one shows him with a quite distinctive long looking head - they could easily be two different people.

Wild speculation, imo.
Well that would be intriguing if in fact there was two different, but similar looking men, one man dies from rat poison and remains anonymous, and the other, assumes his identity and lives.

 

[trendsetter]

Wild speculation, imo.
Well that would be intriguing if in fact there was two different, but similar looking men, one man dies from rat poison and remains anonymous, and the other, assumes his identity and lives.

That's not what I said - I don't dispute that all the pictures are of the same man; however, they do not give a reliably consistent indication of his appearance. CoverMeCagney makes the very good suggestion of publishing pictures of the corpse or a reconstruction of his face.