GUILTY UK - Joanna Yeates, 25, Clifton, Bristol, 17 Dec 2010 #14

[Luna15]

Court shown cctv of Joanna Yeates and boyfriend Greg Reardon setting off for work together in the snow on the day she was killed.

<< Sky Twitter

must be from the neighbours CCTV?

 

[Redgoblin]

rupertevelyn (Rupert Evelyn)
Vincent Tabak is looking at the floor with his head in his hand, glasses off

skynewsgatherer (Harriet Tolputt)
In the summer of 2009 the pair moved in together and after 13 months they moved again in Oct 10 to the flat where Joanna was killed.

jonkay01 (Jon Kay)
So far Greg Reardon and Vincent Tabak have not made eye-contact with one another.

richardpayneitv (Richard Payne)
Greg Reardon: Had relationship about 2 years. Moved to Canynge Road on Oct 25,2010. Asked about locks to their flat by prosecution.

skynewsgatherer (Harriet Tolputt)
Jury hears how coats and surf boards kept in the hall of the flat. Windows at the flat were usually locked.

skynewsgatherer (Harriet Tolputt)
Doors at the flat were double locked whether they were in or out, says Greg Reardon.

jonkay01 (Jon Kay)
Greg says they would always keep the door of their Clifton flat double-locked.

rupertevelyn (Rupert Evelyn)
Tabak keeps head in hand for entirety of Greg's evidence. Court now adjourned. Greg will go back in witness box after lunch.

 

[bees]

So what I want to know now is whether TM noticed any marks on VT's hands and face. JY would have resisted and tried to fight him off but we've not heard any evidence of VT's DNA under her fingernails yet.

 

[stmarysmead]

I'm trying to understand the mentality of a near stranger who believes, seconds after entering a neighbor's apartment...that he can "put his arm around her?" He was certainly in her "personal space." What normal man would move in like that in minutes...then, instead of backing out of the apartment...decides to compress her throat to stop her screams.

Lucky TM did not have a child with him. Is this how he would react to a screaming baby?

 

[notsure]

So what I want to know now is whether TM noticed any marks on VT's hands and face. JY would have resisted and tried to fight him off but we've not heard any evidence of VT's DNA under her fingernails yet.

If there were any marks on him, he might have explained them by his "slipping on the snow". We know from his subsequent behaviour that he soon returned to "normal" after this "accident".

 

[stmarysmead]

"Here's your cat."

Moves in almost immediately...arm goes around her waist. That's a provocation...an attempted "embrace." That's an unwanted sexual advance.

Jo screams in response to his deliberate action.

He grabs her by the neck and applies pressure...looking at her grasping for breath, dying in front of his eyes. Count to 20. That is a long period of time to watch another's agony and not stop.

This is murder.

 

[Cherwell]

So what I want to know now is whether TM noticed any marks on VT's hands and face. JY would have resisted and tried to fight him off but we've not heard any evidence of VT's DNA under her fingernails yet.

I thought about that, but the pathologist has said she had very short fingernails.

 

[weeeva]

itvnews ITV News
Vincent Tabak claims he strangled Joanna Yeates for 20 seconds after she screamed when he put his arm around her, a court hears.

<<Twitter

Could be grammatical error? but I'm reading that as he perps was trying it on?

Yep. Could be, but a woman does not scream because a man chances his luck with her. If that were the case I would have done a lot of screaming in my young days.
It was the way it was done that made Jo scream. Perhaps the suddeness of it.

 

[Cherwell]

Am I right in thinking that the points from VT's Defence Statement were read out in court after the jury had been asked to leave for a few minutes?

If so, I'm surprised that the journalists were allowed to tweet those details, as they could easily get back to the jury.

I understood that it was read out to the jury. And that the jury left while a point of law was discussed.

 

[Nausicaa]

Yep. Could be, but a woman does not scream because a man chances his luck with her. If that were the case I would have done a lot of screaming in my young days.
It was the way it was done that made Jo scream. Perhaps the suddeness of it.

Much more likely IMO is that he went considerably further than putting his arm round her.

 

[Luna15]

So what I want to know now is whether TM noticed any marks on VT's hands and face. JY would have resisted and tried to fight him off but we've not heard any evidence of VT's DNA under her fingernails yet.

Defence - in longer assaults victims tend to claw at own neck to try and free themselves? Delaney - yes, but Joanna Yeates' fingernails were very short
by skynewswebster via twitter edited by nicola.boden 11:05 AM

 

[Redgoblin]

IMO it looks as if VT's statement of the event looks like a very watered down version of what happened, and IMO the fact that he's been inconsistent in his statements anyway. I don't hold a lot water in what he has put to paper.

 

[badhorsie]

I wouldn't scream at someone just doing that, there must have been something in addition to putting his arm around her, something menacing...

 

[stmarysmead]

And the fact that for all practical purposes, he was a stranger.

This was not some long standing acquaintance or friend of the family. This was a stranger, stepping into her flat for some reason and almost immediately making some move suggesting intimacy.

 

[Nausicaa]

I understood that it was read out to the jury. And that the jury left while a point of law was discussed.

Are there any educated guesses as to what the point of law under discussion was ? Presumably the moment at which it became necessary to discuss it would suggest the subject.

 

[Trouble007]

And the fact that for all practical purposes, he was a stranger.

This was not some long standing acquaintance or friend of the family. This was a stranger, stepping into her flat for some reason and almost immediately making some move suggesting intimacy.

perhaps though she recognised that it was her neighbour ( so should be safe!) and let him in? its as though he intended to go round and try it on and it all backfired?

 

[goldielox]

I think the vast majority of people would only scream if they knew or feared they were in dire straits. If suddenly and sharply taken by surprise I might well emit a short shriek but I wouldn't scream ie if I opened my door for some reason and unexpectedly found a neighbour or someone I knew at the other side of it I may shriek. Only if they then did something I decided was very (and immediately) threatening towards me might I scream, and that would be a scream to alert anyone in the vicinity who might be able to help me.

From past experience I'm not convinced I would scream in that latter circumstance. On the one occasion I had cause to I was instead frozen to the spot and rendered speechless.

Of course no two people are the same and Jo may well have been a screamer...but I don't believe for a minute that a neighbour just trying to slip his arm round her waist would induce her to scream. If he DID try to do that then I suspect her reaction to that and his actions immediately AFTERwards were what caused her to scream.

If he did make a pass at her, her negative reaction to that has caused him to explode. That's IF he did make a pass at her.

 

[bees]

And the fact that for all practical purposes, he was a stranger.

This was not some long standing acquaintance or friend of the family. This was a stranger, stepping into her flat for some reason and almost immediately making some move suggesting intimacy.

Yes it does suggest intimacy - I think he might say it wasn't sexually motivated but was more of a friendly/comforting gesture. The fact is he can say whatever he likes to fit the known evidence because there's nobody to contradict him about his motive or manner.

 

[goldielox]

Court shown cctv of Joanna Yeates and boyfriend Greg Reardon setting off for work together in the snow on the day she was killed.

<< Sky Twitter

must be from the neighbours CCTV?

If they're seen setting out from the flat then surely they're likely to have the footage of what went on that night ...namely VT's comings and goings...too? If so then I have to wonder how long it took them to get round to this footage because it can't have been before CJ was arrested, or even in the couple of weeks after that.

 

[bees]

From Sky News
The defence statement said: "The two were facing each other. He put one arm around her back with his hand in the small of her back. She screamed.
"He put his hand over her mouth and the screaming stopped. He removed his hand from her mouth and the screaming continued.

"He then put his hand around her throat and held it there for about 20 seconds. He applied no more than moderate force on a scale of 1 to 3.
"He did not intend death or serious injury. He accepts that his actions were unlawful."
When asked about the statement, pathologist Russell Delaney said: "That period of time would be sufficient to cause the signs of venous obstruction and would be long enough to result in her death."
http://news.sky.com/home/uk-news/article/16090480