GUILTY UK - Joanna Yeates, 25, Clifton, Bristol, 17 Dec 2010 #17

[Robin Hood]

IIRC if he's prosecuted for the illegal child photos he has certain restrictions on his release to indicate he can't have/own/view computer material.

 

[Curious Alice]

:worms: This whole business is un-peeling like a decaying onion, each layer as rotten as the last. To think, this time last week many of us were still giving weighty consideration to finding this man not guilty of murder (not that *advertiser censored* proves he is a murderer, but we were assured by his QC of VT's excellent character)

Can he now been prosecuted for having this material now this is in the public domain? Is it likely when he has a life sentence already ?

 

[stmarysmead]

The more I think of this case, the more chilling it is. The choice of his neighbor as victim shows that Tabak had reached a point where the violent urges encouraged by this *advertiser censored* were beyond his control or even his intellect. There is no question that other women would also have been at risk, if he had escaped punishment. And "escape punishment" is exactly what his Plan B was. He only pleaded to manslaughter in the hope that his pitiful courtroom charade would convince a jury that HE was a victim too. A victim of "flirtatious Jo." This ploy is incredibly evil because he knew what perversion inspired him...and it was a vile perversion, not a "flirty" remark from a neighbor.

Tabak had lost control and had moved on to lusting after children. How long till a neighbor child fell into his hands. He "calculated" to manipulate a jury into giving hiom a short sentence...he was not looking for HELP...but a way to continue his violence and his smut.

And he nearly succeeded.

 

[goldielox]

Jeezzzz. What is it about sex, that drives some people to do these things, to have these urges?
There must be some sort of explanation. We never seem to hear about any research in this field.
It's all very well calling these folk scum, perverts, evil etc. but that won't help the next child who is abused.
What causes it to happen????????????????

And it's mainly men.

 

[weeeva]

And it's mainly men.

Yes goldielox. I was being tactful.
To think I felt kind of sorry for him in the beginning, in my own weird sort of way.
Now I am wondering if he could have been into all this BEFORE he met TM. I feel guilty for mentioning TM now. What a terrible thing to have happened to her.
Did the Internet corrupt Tabak, or was he already corrupt and that is why he sought out these images?
I wonder if his family in Holland will try to hide this from the old mother?
In later years we tried to shield my mother from things we knew would worry her.
Dear oh dear. what next?

 

[veggiefan]

What is it about sex, that drives some people to do these things, to have these urges? There must be some sort of explanation. We never seem to hear about any research in this field.

I think there's been a fair bit of research, but the results are often contradictory and inconclusive.

From the little I've read, I think there is some evidence that sex offenders often display a type of behaviour that could be classed within the autism spectrum - a lack of empathy with their victims, and a tendency to "excuse" their own behaviour with claims that their victim didn't mind or encouraged them (remember "she invited me in"?).

I'm quite persuaded by this argument, as it fits with the "loner" image of the sex offender that we often read about, and also goes some way to explaining why sex offenders are mainly men (autism is much more prevalent in males than females). However, I think it's best to avoid simplistic arguments in these matters - apart from anything else, everyone differs.

 

[goldielox]

Yes goldielox. I was being tactful.
To think I felt kind of sorry for him in the beginning, in my own weird sort of way.
Now I am wondering if he could have been into all this BEFORE he met TM. I feel guilty for mentioning TM now. What a terrible thing to have happened to her.
Did the Internet corrupt Tabak, or was he already corrupt and that is why he sought out these images?
I wonder if his family in Holland will try to hide this from the old mother?
In later years we tried to shield my mother from things we knew would worry her.
Dear oh dear. what next?

Lol! Sorry.

I think he was probably twisted before he got himself on the internet (or met TM) - the birth of the internet has just made this stuff more accessable hasn't it. Why or how someone realises they have a certain kink though is anyone's guess.

I recall an accountant who used to frequent a forum years ago. He was in to feet- to be more specific he was in to smelly feet. He used to ask people to post him their well worn slippers and other footwear so he could sniff (and got knows what else) them. If he was still around I'd ask him how he got in to that. Another one - he liked dressing up as a maid. He used to ask for tips on how to be the perfect "lady's maid". He wanted to pop round to clean people's houses dressed like that too.

Back to VT - Holland is renowned for its *advertiser censored* so I'm guessing his taste for it started way back. Obviously "normal" *advertiser censored* didn't do it for him hence he's probably gone looking (and obviously found) the more extreme stuff and developed a taste for it. And we know what that escalated to.

Some probably have a reason in their background as to why they go a certain way sexually. And some people probably don't - they're just wired to be perverse...same as I believe some people are just wired to be bad and/or evil.

 

[otto]

Lol! Sorry.

I think he was probably twisted before he got himself on the internet (or met TM) - the birth of the internet has just made this stuff more accessable hasn't it. Why or how someone realises they have a certain kink though is anyone's guess.

I recall an accountant who used to frequent a forum years ago. He was in to feet- to be more specific he was in to smelly feet. He used to ask people to post him their well worn slippers and other footwear so he could sniff (and got knows what else) them. If he was still around I'd ask him how he got in to that. Another one - he liked dressing up as a maid. He used to ask for tips on how to be the perfect "lady's maid". He wanted to pop round to clean people's houses dressed like that too.

Back to VT - Holland is renowned for its *advertiser censored* so I'm guessing his taste for it started way back. Obviously "normal" *advertiser censored* didn't do it for him hence he's probably gone looking (and obviously found) the more extreme stuff and developed a taste for it. And we know what that escalated to.

Some probably have a reason in their background as to why they go a certain way sexually. And some people probably don't - they're just wired to be perverse...same as I believe some people are just wired to be bad and/or evil.

Holland reknowned for *advertiser censored*? That's news to me. Prostitution is not against the law, but I think that's quite different from reknowned for *advertiser censored*. I would have considered a place like Bangkok or even the US to be more "reknowned for *advertiser censored*".

There are red light districts in major cities in the Netherlands. If it is true that VT rented a flat in the red light district in Eindhoven while he studied, then I would think that he had an interest in that aspect of life for quite some time.

 

[otto]

The point that I have had the most difficulty with processing is the fact that VT went to Joanna's flat that night having made the decisions to murder her. We know this to be true. He went there to attack his neighbour and it appears to me that he knew she was alone. He had to have known that if he left her alive, he would immediately be arrested, so before he went there he knew perfectly well that he was going to commit murder. That means that everything he did leading up to the murder would have been cold and calculating - all 43 injuries that occurred in a period of about 30 minutes. He also appears to have made a calculated decision that he could get away with it. No one in his right mind would spend 11 years completing three university degrees only to then make a decision which he thought could land him in jail for the remainder of his life. He fully expected that he could commit murder and get away with it. It just blows my mind ... the arrogance and calculating coldness.

 

[brownbread]

The point that I have had the most difficulty with processing is the fact that VT went to Joanna's flat that night having made the decisions to murder her. We know this to be true. He went there to attack his neighbour and it appears to me that he knew she was alone. He had to have known that if he left her alive, he would immediately be arrested, so before he went there he knew perfectly well that he was going to commit murder. That means that everything he did leading up to the murder would have been cold and calculating - all 43 injuries that occurred in a period of about 30 minutes. He also appears to have made a calculated decision that he could get away with it. No one in his right mind would spend 11 years completing three university degrees only to then make a decision which he thought could land him in jail for the remainder of his life. He fully expected that he could commit murder and get away with it. It just blows my mind ... the arrogance and calculating coldness.

I still don't think he went there with the explicit intention of murder, main reason being no real evidence of pre-planning - eg he was doing a google maps search on Longwood Lane AFTER the event, not BEFORE.

We know he was a calculating and 'shrewd' individual - if he had calculated this in advance I think he could easily have ensured that Jo's body was not found for a very very long time.

I don't think that necessarily means that he went there with a purely 'innocent' intention - whatever happened, I think his obsession overtook any sense of what was rational or right.

 

[Neurotripsy]

Can he now been prosecuted for having this material now this is in the public domain? Is it likely when he has a life sentence already ?

I'll be disgusted if they don't prosecute. A life sentence for a completely different crime should not preclude what is, essentially, an attempt to get some kind of justice for the children in those images.

 

[bijoux]

I'll be disgusted if they don't prosecute.

I agree!

Still want to know what VT did during the unaccounted hour JY was in his flat and still want A & S to say definitively no one else was involved. Who belongs to the other bit of DNA found on JY? Are there any forensic experts among us who can explain how it got there please?

 

[bees]

I agree!

Still want to know what VT did during the unaccounted hour JY was in his flat and still want A & S to say definitively no one else was involved. Who belongs to the other bit of DNA found on JY? Are there any forensic experts among us who can explain how it got there please?

I'm not a forensic expert but she'd recently been in the pub on a busy night so I imagine it's possible that other people's DNA was transferred onto her.

 

[Sammyme]

Give courts the power to quiz EVERYONE on internet *advertiser censored*, says leading lawyer in wake of Jo Yeates' murder trial
Mr Loophole blasts decision to withhold Vincent Tabak's interest in violent *advertiser censored* from jury
'Disgraceful contradiction' resulted in Milly Dowler's father being quizzed about *advertiser censored*

Read more: http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/art...YONE-*advertiser censored*.html#ixzz1cUyd3CRa

 

[bijoux]

I'm not a forensic expert but she'd recently been in the pub on a busy night so I imagine it's possible that other people's DNA was transferred onto her.

bees, can you remember where exactly the DNA was? I kind of remember it being on the back of her jeans (behind the knee) close to where VT's was found. Kind of odd there were only 2 bits of DNA on her and one is VT's and the other identified. If it's that easy to pick up, assuming she did so in the pub, wouldn't you think there would be more unidentified DNA on her?

I guess my point is, it's not that easy to pick up unless you come into direct contact with someone's bodily fluid ie. blood, semen, saliva, or a hair or bit of skin.

 

[bijoux]

Mr Loophole blasts decision to withhold Vincent Tabak's interest in violent *advertiser censored* from jury.

Do we all believe if the information has been allowed, the verdict would have been unanimous?

Did the 10/2 verdict affect the judge's sentencing I wonder, in favour of VT?

20 years seem kind of light to me.

 

[whiterum]

I still don't think he went there with the explicit intention of murder, main reason being no real evidence of pre-planning - eg he was doing a google maps search on Longwood Lane AFTER the event, not BEFORE

I don't know why he would even consider the possibility that Jo, with a live in partner would even entertain the thought of consenting to anything sexual with him at all. It seems apart from TM other consensual partners he had to pay for.

I think he went to Jo’s flat with the intent of killing her, saw the opportunity to satisfy some sick insatiable urge and just went for it. For some of these opportunist killers, how or where they will dispose of the body or cover up their crime could be of no consequence until after the deed is done.

 

[otto]

I still don't think he went there with the explicit intention of murder, main reason being no real evidence of pre-planning - eg he was doing a google maps search on Longwood Lane AFTER the event, not BEFORE.

We know he was a calculating and 'shrewd' individual - if he had calculated this in advance I think he could easily have ensured that Jo's body was not found for a very very long time.

I don't think that necessarily means that he went there with a purely 'innocent' intention - whatever happened, I think his obsession overtook any sense of what was rational or right.

Essentially he had no reason to be there. The moment he formulated the idea to attack her, he had to have known that murder was a possible outcome simply because he could not attack his neighbour and get away with it. Perhaps sexual determination was confusing his thoughts - but that's a pretty big problem. Anyone that cannot control their sexual urges should not be free to walk the street.

 

[otto]

Do we all believe if the information has been allowed, the verdict would have been unanimous?

Did the 10/2 verdict affect the judge's sentencing I wonder, in favour of VT?

20 years seem kind of light to me.

He has been sentenced to 20 years before any possibility of parole. That's a long time.

 

[Kristie]

bees, can you remember where exactly the DNA was? I kind of remember it being on the back of her jeans (behind the knee) close to where VT's was found. Kind of odd there were only 2 bits of DNA on her and one is VT's and the other identified. If it's that easy to pick up, assuming she did so in the pub, wouldn't you think there would be more unidentified DNA on her?

I guess my point is, it's not that easy to pick up unless you come into direct contact with someone's bodily fluid ie. blood, semen, saliva, or a hair or bit of skin.

Maybe there was other DNA in the bag he transported her in??