GUILTY UK - Joanna Yeates, 25, Clifton, Bristol, 17 Dec 2010 #5

[otto]

According to the window cleaner, the door is at the back of the building.



Have you tried Bing Maps in birds-eye view? You can rotate the picture and see from four different sides.

Thanks. So if the door is at the back, then the layout is different.

I'll have a look and see if I can find the other maps ... I tried the other day without success.

 

[brownbread]

Just back to the image of the sock shown at the press conference the other week that is rumoured to of been the one found on Jo's body when she was found, this is a more closer up image, & i was wondering whether or not judging by how dirty the base is if we can determine whether she may have walked outside of the flat without shoes on her feet ??

Very interesting point. I didn't think it was the sock she was wearing - I thought it was a similar one taken from inside her flat. But it DOES look like it has been worn walking outside given the way the dirt looks quite ingrained on the heel and toe areas.

Given that almost every popular theory resolves around Jo being killed inside the flat, some evidence that points to her walking outside puts a new slant on things.

 

[laserdisc10]

Please note Malaconotus' comments, with which I concur:

Are you and/or Malaconotus able to state conclusively then, that there are no students (foreign or otherwise) resident within the building ? If so, that would eliminate the possibility that JY was visited with an invitation to a party or similar scenario

 

[mikeymot]

Thanks for the Ford Ka info.
It certainly rings a bell with me too.
If I recall correct it was blue, and should be similar to this then.

Looking at that shot just how big is the boot I wonder?

Can't see the pic?

 

[Malaconotus]

Anyone know where G.R lived prior to moving to Bristol? It doesn't have to be the exact address.
I'm specifically thinking 2009 in the Summer and Autumn. If you do, then don't put it in the public domain on here, but mail me it please. It can be possible to trace the car using the wonders of internet technology

They both lived in Bristol since before that. There has been some confusion over this because I think people are assuming that they moved in together for the first time in October. That is not the case. They were living together at another address in Bristol.

WRT the stairs, I'm increasingly thinking that there aren’t any. Trace the course of the brickwork in this picture and it’s clear that the path to the door is running downhill by 12 to 18 inches from the front of the building... http://i.dailymail.co.uk/i/pix/2010/12/29/article-1342427-0C99CD95000005DC-935_634x443.jpg Look at the level of the lintels above door and windows on streetview and they are all the same level... http://maps.google.co.uk/maps?hl=en...d=a-zSYE9ZpHwJUiLnDttxmg&cbp=12,38.51,,1,3.74 If front room and door are on the same level I expect the whole flat is.

The ‘foreign students’ is a bit of a red herring. The other basement flat was occupied by a couple from Northern Europe. One of these two is a recent Ph D graduate, and a noted expert in his specialist field, but he is not a particularly young man. I have found out a little about them but don’t want to put their names and details into the public domain since, as far as I can see, there is no possible connection and there is no need for a google search of their names to lead in future to this page. It is possible, though, that they were actually the previous occupants of Flat 1, although it seems more likely looking at the changes to the electoral roll over time that a single British woman was in Flat 1 previously.

I have never seen any reference to the colour of the Ford Ka, although that is definitely the right model.

EDIT: I see Rossetti has made some of the same points.

 

[equationgirl]

Hmmm. Looks like what has been referred to as a 'basement' flat by the press is more of what estate agents call a 'garden flat', where the property isn't actually properly below ground.

The picture of the house just posted would confirm this.

I'm beginning to distrust the media reports more and more, the standards of journalistic reporting in this case are woefully inadequate from a factual standpoint.

 

[Rossetti]

Are you and/or Malaconotus able to state conclusively then, that there are no students (foreign or otherwise) resident within the building ? If so, that would eliminate the possibility that JY was visited with an invitation to a party or similar scenario

Malaconotus has just posted what were also my own conclusions re the "foreign students".

It wouldn't at all eliminate the possibility that JY was invited to a party - we know, for instance, that there was one taking place across the road. There may have been others nearby, either that night or during the days ahead.

 

[mikeymot]

No. People sometimes take great risks to protect loved ones.
jmo

But don't you think moving a dead body....of someone they have killed...is a risk too far?

 

[mikeymot]

Anyone know where G.R lived prior to moving to Bristol? It doesn't have to be the exact address.
I'm specifically thinking 2009 in the Summer and Autumn. If you do, then don't put it in the public domain on here, but mail me it please. It can be possible to trace the car using the wonders of internet technology lol

Of course it's fruitless if the car is newer than that. GRRR! :banghead:

Think it said somewhere that they both moved up to Bristol from near Jos' parents....somewhere in Hampshire?

 

[mikeymot]

Thanks. I've added the window. It would be great if someone in the area took a walk along the back of the building and took some photos ... also of the area between the two buildings so we could know for sure if someone could leave the flat out the back. Someone that worked on the buildings several years ago said the sheds were still in place, but it's possible that after the 2008 renovations, they were removed. I'm also curious about whether the garden flat on the other side of the building (sharing a wall with Jo's flat) has an entrance in the place ... that is, whether the flats are mirrored floor plans.

The google earth photos just don't give me enough information about what is going on behind the buildings ... sheds, windows, so on ... and I'm curious.

You're doing very well...am including these clips from ITN news....PRIOR to Jo being found. As you will see, there are the parents...AT THE ORIGINAL APPEAL...with G/R crying....but it is obvious from this that G/Rs' words have been removed...otherwise there would be no point in him sitting alongside her parents...just crying.

Otto....there is a close up of the entrance/shed of Jos flat

Phil....there is even some snow for you!

http://www.itnsource.com/shotlist/ITN/2010/12/22/T22121033/?v=0&a=1

 

[jigzy]

It's a basement flat but the entrance is at ground floor level, and photos clearly show that the stairs are not on the outside. So, there must be stairs on the inside, leading from the entrance door down into the flat itself.

Ah, now I see the reason for the 'stairs' discussion. However I definitely think that the apartment has no stairs. This is why:

Look at this pic: http://static.guim.co.uk/sys-images...93788536274/The-Bristol-flat-of-Joann-007.jpg

The lawned garden is raised compared to the floor level of the apartment with a path leading in front of the basement windows.

To walk to JY's front door from the road you would walk down a slight slope http://images.mirror.co.uk/upl/m4/jan2011/9/7/jo-yeates-image-2-697085012.jpg
To me this looks as though upon conversion to an apartment, the ground has been dug down into, and the door has been dropped down in level to do away with the need for stairs - I can see an additional set of blocks at the bottom of the sandstone surround to the door, and the door has been dropped down a level so we now have a glass panel to fill the gap at the top. Check out the level of the bricks on the house wall at the ground level. Clearly the path is sloping.

quite different to the left side of the house where the ground remains flat to the main entrance then falls away into a steeper slope. jmo. Steepish slope is beyond the car in this image.
http://22.mm.g-media.com/666039.jpg

This is seen clearer in some pics than others. If you look at some pics of the height of the wall separating no.42 from no.44 you will see that it is high.

In other pics nearer the road it is not so high,indicating a slope. jmo. (Slopes do not always look like slopes on googlemaps or when using telephoto lenses) http://paimages.s3.amazonaws.com/categories/news/480x385/9984403.jpg

The apartment looks level to me - with a raised lawn - it's the path that slopes gradually from lawn level at the road gate to the door of the apartment.
in my opinion, the apartment has no stairs inside.


Edited to add: Apologies for those who have posted about the very same thing just now. I was preparing my post and missed the fact that many of you feel the same - no stairs.

 

[laserdisc10]

Malaconotus has just posted what were also my own conclusions re the "foreign students".

It wouldn't at all eliminate the possibility that JY was invited to a party - we know, for instance, that there was one taking place across the road. There may have been others nearby, either that night or during the days ahead.

Of course. I'd just attempted to post about possibility she was invited for drinks or to a party in the near vicinity, but I'd timed out

Before I post what I'd written though, it would of course be useful to eliminate the possibility of there being student residents within the flats themselves. Without wishing to impose upon the privacy of the residents of the flats, have details of the flats' tenants been posted in this forum, say via rough description ? We refer to CJ for example and an eldery tenant has been mentioned by name, possibly by the media. But I don't remember having read details of all the tenants. So while Malaconotus has understandably eliminated a European couple, is much known about other tenants ?

While it may seem irrelevant to some, imo nearby residents and particularly tentants within 42 and 44, are as likely as potential suspects (from the online sleuther's viewpoint) as is, for example, GR

 

[Destroyer]

It's been said in this forum that in the CCTV footage of the evening of the 17th, JY was wearing Ugg boots ...

I have to disagree there Laserdisc, after studying the videos of Jo at Tesco & Bargain Booze i have determined Jo was not wearing Ugg Boots - if you look closely at the Tesco CCTV you will notice on the back of the boots there are tassles, UGG boots are fastened by buttons

Very interesting point. I didn't think it was the sock she was wearing - I thought it was a similar one taken from inside her flat. But it DOES look like it has been worn walking outside given the way the dirt looks quite ingrained on the heel and toe areas.

Given that almost every popular theory resolves around Jo being killed inside the flat, some evidence that points to her walking outside puts a new slant on things.

My impression of the dirt on the base of the socks is that they have been worn outside, not much but possibly on the pathway at either the front or rear of the flat (assuming you can access the shed via an external door ??)

 

[laserdisc10]

Destroyer ---- I have to disagree there Laserdisc, after studying the videos of Jo at Tesco & Bargain Booze i have determined Jo was not wearing Ugg Boots - if you look closely at the Tesco CCTV you will notice on the back of the boots there are tassles, UGG boots are fastened by buttons

I'll take your word for it, Destroyer. Hadn't seen the post refuting the Ugg boots claim

However, here in Australia, where many genuine Ugg boots are made -- there are usually neither tassells or buttons

 

[equationgirl]

Jigzy - your post made some excellent points, but I have to disagree with you about the door being dropped down. Glass panels above doors are known as fanlights and are a typical feature of Victorian architecture. I think the door position has not changed.

I made an earlier post about the use of the term 'basement' and how it might be misleading.

 

[otto]

You're doing very well...am including these clips from ITN news....PRIOR to Jo being found. As you will see, there are the parents...AT THE ORIGINAL APPEAL...with G/R crying....but it is obvious from this that G/Rs' words have been removed...otherwise there would be no point in him sitting alongside her parents...just crying.

Otto....there is a close up of the entrance/shed of Jos flat

Phil....there is even some snow for you!

http://www.itnsource.com/shotlist/ITN/2010/12/22/T22121033/?v=0&a=1

Thank you ... that was funny ... I clicked on the link and they all started talking at the same time. It looks to me that there is still a shed in the back and that it would not be possible to go to the back of the building from the entrance to the flat.

 

[Destroyer]

I'll take your word for it, Destroyer. Hadn't seen the post refuting the Ugg boots claim

However, here in Australia, where many genuine Ugg boots are made -- there are usually neither tassells or buttons

TBH i dont know if the buttons are meant for fastening, but i do notice some women fold them over or have them pulled right up.

Also i would like to ask whether she was wearing tight jeans or tight/stockings ?? Therefore it may be possible she wasnt wearing these thick socks in her boots, meaning she must of changed into them ??

 

[Rossetti]

Think it said somewhere that they both moved up to Bristol from near Jos' parents....somewhere in Hampshire?

This has been rather garbled - someone seems to have got it wrong and subsequently most reporters have copied the erroneous version. This looks like the authentic version:

Jo, originally from Romsey, Hampshire, attended the private boarding school Embley Park, where fees cost up to £7,000 a term. She went to college in Winchester for A-levels in art, biology and geography and studied landscape design and horticulture at Writtle agricultural college in Chelmsford, Essex.

After getting a job at landscape designers Hyland Edgar Driver, Jo relocated from Winchester to Bristol, when she landed a job at the Building Design Partnership. She started in September 2008 and it was there, at Hill Street in Bristol's city centre, she met boyfriend Greg - an Architect working towards his professional chartership. Earlier this year she completed a masters degree in garden design at the city's university.

http://www.thisisbristol.co.uk/news...old-woman/article-3036710-detail/article.html

 

[Destroyer]

wfgodot's gonna be so delighted when they get back !!! Normally we would of been on thread 6 by now, hehehe, plenty of catching up to do !!!

 

[jigzy]

Jigzy - your post made some excellent points, but I have to disagree with you about the door being dropped down. Glass panels above doors are known as fanlights and are a typical feature of Victorian architecture. I think the door position has not changed.

I made an earlier post about the use of the term 'basement' and how it might be misleading.

By some accounts the door was not even there originally, but at the rear of the property. Did tradesman's entrances also have fanlights?

Either way - the path from the road to JY's apartment is sloping.

jmo.