Found Deceased UK - Libby Squire, 21, last seen getting into taxi outside Welly club, Hull, 31 Jan 2019 #9 *ARREST*

Discussion in 'Located Persons Discussion' started by cybervampira, Feb 2, 2019.

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  1. CoverMeCagney

    CoverMeCagney Well-Known Member

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    I found this (jesus - the stuff I am googling on this case...)

    While there can be other smells that could mislead cadaver dogs.... the main concern for police and handlers is the scent of animal remains. Some handlers train their dogs using pig remains due to the difficulty and hazards of getting human remains . This is unfortunate because cadaver dogs can smell the difference between human remains and pig remains, despite the biological similarities between humans and pigs .

    In fact, when looking at the similarities between the chemicals emitted from human remains and those of three other animals (pig, cow, and chicken), it was the chicken’s mix of chemicals that was closest to those of human remains and the pig was the least similar

    Cadaver Dogs - Can Dogs Smell Death?
     


  2. Sarahjo

    Sarahjo Well-Known Member

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    Or she could have been transported out of the city while still alive so no decomposing body scent...maybe she was just unconscious
     
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  3. Strontium69

    Strontium69 Well-Known Member

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    I don't actually know but I would very much doubt it? Other people being around don't confuse a cadaver dog, so wont it be able to smell the difference between pork and human?

    It's the other end of that thought that induced the true horror for me early on... I just cling on to the hope that with it being a specific bacon factory and not just generic meat products, it might mean that that isn't actually an option for disposing of a body. Not like working at a dog food canning plant that would likely have large hoppers that entire carcasses can be thrown in and down into a giant mincer.
     
  4. yoyo1

    yoyo1 Well-Known Member

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    Yes if Libby screamed , PR could very well have subdued her , tied her up and that location beng comprimised by her noise he then moved to another more private location more suitable to his purposes. Altho the fact the police have continually focused on the one wellesley/oak park area would indicate that his car isnt detected going anywhere else within the eye of cctv in the critical timeframe.
     
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  5. CoverMeCagney

    CoverMeCagney Well-Known Member

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    The test I mentioned used a body that had been dead for under 3 hours, another poster mentions 1.5 hours. Would be interesting to know what the minimum "freshness" would be.
     
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  6. Quintet

    Quintet On Time Out

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    Please don’t laugh at me, but, would the fact he works at a pig abattoir and that he may have scent of recently deceased porky pig on him regularly, interfere with scents in say his vehicle or on his clothing? I thought these dogs were often trained with pigs as similar to a human. Perhaps I’ve dreamt this! Forgive me!
     
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  7. CoverMeCagney

    CoverMeCagney Well-Known Member

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    See my post from 10 mins ago - dogs can definitely differentiate between humans and pigs.
     
  8. Deckard

    Deckard Active Member

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    I thought that the last LE press conference mentioning "one" man rather than "a" man was the hint posters were alluding to ie could be more than one POI?

    The frogmarch idea into the park on a cold night seems like a palaver for want of a better word. Especially to the far end away from Oak Rd where the witness heard screams. Assault in the car would make more sense, if it took place, especially as the passenger was wearing a skirt and possibly no jacket.
     
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  9. Quintet

    Quintet On Time Out

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    It closed from the 1st January, re-opened on the 21st January. So, that fits in pretty well.
     
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  10. Quintet

    Quintet On Time Out

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    Marvellous!
     
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  11. Newthoughts

    Newthoughts Well-Known Member

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    It doesn't make sense unless he did plan for killing or hiding and disposal. That has to be a consideration. To be abducted by one creepy individual, get away and then be abducted by another doesn't seem likely statistically. Especially given how cold it was. Not a night to be out on the off chance. He's cool and confident. The police must have good evidence to charge him with the other offences yet he pleads not guilty.
     
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  12. jessie

    jessie Well-Known Member

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    I can find some text later (excuse me) but trained dogs are known to detect a fresh corpse within 10 minutes of death.
     
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  13. Strontium69

    Strontium69 Well-Known Member

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    It has always niggled me about the burglary/voyeurism charges.

    I have always PR was picked up due to his car, possibly due to some CCTV, being in the area. And that once they searched his house, they then found stuff.

    They immediately charged him with voyeurism and burglary.

    Well, okay, how did they know?

    They seized his laptop/phone when they first arrested him looking for Libby, and found something else, possibly or possibly not connected to Libby.

    Okay, but what in detail? I assumed he had taken video of himself, but I could only relate that to the incident at Wellesley.

    So how did the Police know, as soon as they opened his life, that he had been burgling and voyeuring on his neighbours?

    The full charges put to Pawel Relowicz were :

    • Between December 7 and December 10, 2017, you entered as a trespasser to a property in Raglan Street and stoke therein of a value unknown three vibrators
    • On January 19, 2019 you committed an act outraging public decency by behaving in an indecent manner by masturbating in a public place
    • Between December 1 and December 4, 2017, in Hull, namely Lambton Street, you entered as a trespasser and stoke therein a PlayStation 4 console, a controller and £25 in cash
    • Between January 25 and January 28, 2019, you entered as a trespasser in Ventnor Street and stole a computer laptop, a Kindle, a speaker, a quantity of sex toys, condoms, knickers and photographs
    • On January 23, 2018, in Estuary Street you observed another person doing a private act know that person did not consent to being observed for your sexual gratification
    Incidentally, I know of no Estuary Street in Hull??

    How did they know these dates historically, going back 2 years? Did they fit him for burglaries previously reported? I wondered about someone having a theory that he knew an estate agent so was able to get some kind of key to these properties. Was he perhaps involved with planting mini cameras and bugging student houses? Just a thought... may or may not have any relevance, although Police have always stated ZERO relevance.
     
    Last edited: Feb 24, 2019
  14. London1776

    London1776 Active Member

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    Hi everyone. Interesting to read all of the views and local knowledge. Great website. As I’m unfamiliar with the area, could a local please explain the likelihood of this being a tragic accident, given the city’s extensive drain network, however small this likelihood might be?

    Could this explain the lack of forensics or relevant charges to any individuals, the limited appeals for information, and the police’s focus on searching the waterways? Could an accident also match with reports of screams being heard?

    Not ruling out anyone else’s theories but interested to know
     
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  15. CoverMeCagney

    CoverMeCagney Well-Known Member

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    Wasn't it Edgecumbe Street?
     
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  16. Mamamiamaria

    Mamamiamaria Well-Known Member

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    Human decomposition starts at around 4 minutes after death. Obviously it takes quite some time for humans to be able to smell it. As I understand things, a lot will depend on the conditions in which the body is kept. Many dogs are now trained on pseudo scents that are available for purchase and not trained with animal scent. In fact I believe there are some dogs trained in the United States at the FBI Body Farm so they are using real scent.

    I think a lot will depend on the training the dogs receive and their handler but there have been studies where the dogs have signalled within less than ten minutes.

    I find this fascinating, our doggie friends are truly wonderful creatures.
     
  17. Strontium69

    Strontium69 Well-Known Member

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    Makes sense...

    But I did wonder about the voyeurism charges. At first, I thought it may be only the streets to the front and back of his house, therefore he had been spying on them from his own window, possibly videoed which is how the Police caught him.

    But these aren't the most ideal streets for voyeurism are they? You have to be right on the street, looking right into the house, very noticeable, even when sat in a car. Maybe he spotted it and filmed it on his phone as a random opportunity?
    pr4.png

    Or maybe the voyeurism charge is where the Police discovered via his laptop/phone that he had bugged that house with a secret camera? It is a stretch - but if he knew an estate agent, and was working with another person/a team to get camera bugs into student houses?

    This was from 2011, when the technology was new.
    Samokovareva finds hidden cameras in every room in her and Dzhambazova's apartment | Daily Mail Online

    2017
    Student horrified to find hidden CAMERA and microphone in women's loo

    Shocked Student Finds Spy Camera Hidden Inside Travelodge Shower

    It is stretching the length of the rabbit hole a bit, and is moving away from direct relevance to Libby's disappearance, and is just my whacko theory... up there with the trafficking theory.

    But it would explain how he is not entirely acting alone, and may be involved in a much bigger and deeper gang, if this is something ran via the internet and joined with other locations around Europe?

    All it would take (still a lot I know) would be to have some decent access within a small estate agents that deals exclusively with students.
     
    Last edited: Feb 24, 2019
  18. Quintet

    Quintet On Time Out

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    He could. I hope the park searches and focus are not just based on screams that were not reported until later and the on the fact that he or his sister said he was intending to or did take her home. I hope the police have further cctv or proof that that was the direction that LS was taken, either by PR or someone else.
     
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  19. Newthoughts

    Newthoughts Well-Known Member

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    Re the keys - he lived in Raglan road. There are Unicom (student letting agencies) offices directly opposite that in Newlands avenue.
     
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  20. Stella8

    Stella8 Well-Known Member

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    I think aswell as finding items reported as missing they have found recordings of his antics and God knows what else. I think it’s common for voyeurs and flashers to record their victims for later gratification. The photos that he stole are very incriminating. He could try and peddle that the other things were bought second hand but very difficult to explain being in possession of personal photos.
     
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