UK - Logan Mwangi, 5, found dead in Wales River, Bridgend, 31 July 2021 *arrests, inc. minor* #3

New Posts

Status
Not open for further replies.
It's sickening to hear her talk about the abuse Logan suffered at the hands of Cole and the youth. Physically abusing him and enjoying it, like it's a game. It really does make you feel sick and helpless that he lived with 2 sadists. Those two will hopefully get life for the murder but I'm not sure about AW. I'm sure she handled him roughly too but I can't see her beating him with force like JC and youth. I just think she was stupid, scared and desperate, desperate not to lose Cole and so she let him do what he wanted.
 
So someone mentioned an IPP sentence in relation to Cole. I may have missed it, but is that something he was sentenced to in the past, and do we know anything about the case? Or have I got the wrong end of the stick?
 
Ellmau said:
So someone mentioned an IPP sentence in relation to Cole. I may have missed it, but is that something he was sentenced to in the past, and do we know anything about the case? Or have I got the wrong end of the stick?
Click to expand...
Unfortunately, we don't have any information on JC's prior criminal record other than Logan was initially on the register because of JC's relationship with AC.

In the prior thread, somebody mentioned that IPP was discontinued and I don't know that AW's understanding is accurate after 2012 and/or whether or not it had already been 10 years since JC's release from prison.

Nov 2019 - IPP sentencing regime in England and Wales called 'deeply harmful'

Justice officials in England and Wales are facing renewed calls to deal with thousands of prisoners still jailed under an abolished Kafkaesque sentencing regime that a report has branded “deeply harmful” for families.

The imprisonment for public protection (IPP) sentence, scrapped in 2012, was a form of indeterminate sentence in which offenders were given a minimum jail tariff but no maximum for a range of crimes.

Those given an IPP sentence are placed on licence indefinitely after release, and are only eligible to have their licence removed after 10 years.
 
JC and AW were remanded into custody but do we know where the youth is being housed? I recall he was released into the care of the local authority but where is this? A local authority foster parent?

Where would the youth be committed for a sentence?

Sentencing - Mandatory life sentences in Murder cases | The Crown Prosecution Service

Offenders under 18 years old

For an offender who is a youth when they committed the offence the appropriate starting point is 12 years detention at Her Majesty's pleasure.


Aggravating and Mitigating Factors
Having set a starting point the court must take into account any aggravating or mitigating factors, to the extent that it has not allowed for them in its choice of starting point (paragraph 8, Schedule 21).

Under paragraph 9, detailed consideration of aggravating or mitigating factors may result in a minimum term of any length (whatever the starting point) or in the making of a whole life order.

Aggravating factors that may be relevant include:

a) a significant degree of planning or premeditation;
b) the victim was vulnerable because of age or disability;
c) mental or physical suffering inflicted on the victim before death;
d) the abuse of a position of trust;
e) the use of duress or threats against another person to facilitate the commission of the offence;
f) the victim was providing a public service or performing a public duty; and
g) concealment, destruction or dismemberment of the body.

Mitigating factors include:

a) an intention to cause serious bodily harm rather than kill;
b) lack of premeditation;
c) the offender suffers from a mental disorder or disability (not falling within section 2(1) of the Homicide Act 1957) which lowered their degree of culpability;
d) the offender was provoked in a way not amounting to a defence of provocation;
e) the offender acted to any extent in self-defence;
f) a belief by the offender that the murder was an act of mercy;
g) the age of the offender.

The court should also consider any previous convictions, whether the offence was committed on bail and if the offender pleaded guilty.

The court should take into account any period the offender has spent on remand in connection with the offence or a related offence. The offender will get no credit for time served on remand unless it is taken into account when setting the minimum term. The court should normally subtract the time for which the offender was remanded from the punitive period it would otherwise impose in order to reach the minimum term.
 
The numbers are dated but no matter the direction, the future looks bleak for the youth offender here:

https://howardleague.org/wp-content/uploads/2016/05/Wales-youth-justice.pdf

2. Facts and figures of youth justice in Wales

Before having a convincing debate about whether or not to devolve and the best way to do it, it is important to see exactly what is happening to young people in Wales and some of the problems they face.

As of January 2009 there were 139 males and 5 females, totaling 144 Welsh children within the secure estate (Welsh Assembly Culture and Communities Committee 2009a).

The total number in secure estate is now 161 children (Welsh Government 2009). From the January 2009 statistics, half of these children were placed in Wales, the other half in England. 118 children were in Young Offender Institutions (YOIs) and the remaining 26 were placed in secure training centres (STCs) and secure children’s homes (SCHs). (Welsh Assembly Culture and Communities Committee 2009a) There are now more children from South Wales (109) than North Wales (35) in the secure estate.

In both Wales and England the proportion of children receiving custodial sentences out of all the nation’s children is approximately one percent. In Wales 13 places for younger children aged 12-15 or those who are highly vulnerable up to 17 years are available at the Hillside SCH. Bridgend’s Parc Prison provides 69 places for boys between 15 and 18 years of age and acts as Wales’ YOI. The prison also holds approximately 1200 adult male prisoners. In terms of spending in 2007-08 the total cost of youth justice in Wales was £17,741,352.

Of this total figure £2.9m was given to the YJB, £1.6m to the police, £1.4m to the probation service, £8.9m to social services, £0.7m on education, £0.8m on health and £1.4m on local authority chief executives (Welsh Government 2009). Placing a child in the Hillside facility costs £3,983 per week. STCs cost approximately £3,650 per place and YOIs cost around £1,000 per week.

It is also vital to discuss more broadly the core figures and statistics about children who find themselves in the secure estate, albeit these figures are taken from the England and Wales justice system as a whole (Howard League 2008). Many children in custody are incredibly vulnerable and challenging, with chaotic family backgrounds and histories of neglect and abuse.
 
For someone who spent as much time on her phone as AW did, it never once occurred to her to Google the SAS and who founded it? That’s literally one of the stupidest things I’ve ever heard.

There’s nothing that isn’t about her, is there. She manages to centre herself in every single thing that comes out of her mouth. If she’s not the victim she’s the hero or the perfect mother. This whole tragedy is just the AW show.
 
Kitkat28 said:
For someone who spent as much time on her phone as AW did, it never once occurred to her to Google the SAS and who founded it? That’s literally one of the stupidest things I’ve ever heard.

There’s nothing that isn’t about her, is there. She manages to centre herself in every single thing that comes out of her mouth. If she’s not the victim she’s the hero or the perfect mother. This whole tragedy is just the AW show.
Click to expand...
It is unreal to hear the way she is acting in jail----introducing herself to everyone/anyone as 'the mum whose 5 yr old was dead in the river'---announcing she was arrested for murder, and craving the attention it brings. I will be surprised if she isn't assaulted at some point by someone she really rubs the wrong way.
 
Ellmau said:
So someone mentioned an IPP sentence in relation to Cole. I may have missed it, but is that something he was sentenced to in the past, and do we know anything about the case? Or have I got the wrong end of the stick?
Click to expand...
AW said in one of her police interviews JC had an IPP sentence.

It has to have been given before that sentence was scrapped in 2012. If it’s true that is. Those who already have IPPs will still be subject to them. But could apply to have the licence removed after 10 years, but no guarantee it would be.
 
Seattle1 said:
JC and AW were remanded into custody but do we know where the youth is being housed? I recall he was released into the care of the local authority but where is this? A local authority foster parent?

Where would the youth be committed for a sentence?

Sentencing - Mandatory life sentences in Murder cases | The Crown Prosecution Service

Offenders under 18 years old

For an offender who is a youth when they committed the offence the appropriate starting point is 12 years detention at Her Majesty's pleasure.


Aggravating and Mitigating Factors
Having set a starting point the court must take into account any aggravating or mitigating factors, to the extent that it has not allowed for them in its choice of starting point (paragraph 8, Schedule 21).

Under paragraph 9, detailed consideration of aggravating or mitigating factors may result in a minimum term of any length (whatever the starting point) or in the making of a whole life order.

Aggravating factors that may be relevant include:

a) a significant degree of planning or premeditation;
b) the victim was vulnerable because of age or disability;
c) mental or physical suffering inflicted on the victim before death;
d) the abuse of a position of trust;
e) the use of duress or threats against another person to facilitate the commission of the offence;
f) the victim was providing a public service or performing a public duty; and
g) concealment, destruction or dismemberment of the body.

Mitigating factors include:

a) an intention to cause serious bodily harm rather than kill;
b) lack of premeditation;
c) the offender suffers from a mental disorder or disability (not falling within section 2(1) of the Homicide Act 1957) which lowered their degree of culpability;
d) the offender was provoked in a way not amounting to a defence of provocation;
e) the offender acted to any extent in self-defence;
f) a belief by the offender that the murder was an act of mercy;
g) the age of the offender.

The court should also consider any previous convictions, whether the offence was committed on bail and if the offender pleaded guilty.

The court should take into account any period the offender has spent on remand in connection with the offence or a related offence. The offender will get no credit for time served on remand unless it is taken into account when setting the minimum term. The court should normally subtract the time for which the offender was remanded from the punitive period it would otherwise impose in order to reach the minimum term.
Click to expand...
There are a few options available for the youth, a secure childrens home (age 10-14), secure training centre (up to age 17) or YOI ( age 15-21).

Young people in custody
 
It seems to me that there was a fair bit of projection of the adults character flaws being put on Logan. He was a liar, overly dramatic, wild, attention seeking etc. (in their eyes, not mine). Everyone else who knew him just saw him as a lovely wee boy.
 
Kitkat28 said:
For someone who spent as much time on her phone as AW did, it never once occurred to her to Google the SAS and who founded it? That’s literally one of the stupidest things I’ve ever heard.

There’s nothing that isn’t about her, is there. She manages to centre herself in every single thing that comes out of her mouth. If she’s not the victim she’s the hero or the perfect mother. This whole tragedy is just the AW show.
Click to expand...
Definitely, it sounds like JC is a fantasist and AW didn't question his claims. Regarding the phone, I am a survivor of domestic violence, I escaped and moveda long way away. It was some years ago, before mobile phones were a thing. I can't understand why she didn't call the police when she was stopped from leaving the house by the youth. I understand the fear of being caught by JC when calling for help but instead of being on you tube surely she could have texted a friend and asked them to call the police?
 
Last edited:
I'm not sure we can reply on this IPP sentence to be factual - I absolutely don't believe Cole was in the SAS so why should we believe anything else?

I think it more likely that the IPP is another lie that he's used to coerce Angharad - 'if I get nicked (arrested) for XYZ then it won't be a slap on the wrist (negligible sentence/punishment) I'll be inside for life 'cause of me IPP.

weighing things up at this point (this point only) - I think John is responsible for Logan's death.

Angharad is absolutely responsible for neglecting Logan and allowing the death of a child... not convinced on a guilty for murder (yet)

The youth, at this stage (that may change as more evidence is heard of course) - I believe should he found not guilty of Logans murder but he needs some intensive, lengthy rehabilitation if there is any chance for a normal life for him.
 
So a few things about the baby… if he is in LA care they may have put in requests to not have him mentioned. Also, the baby was obviously present. The police walked JC, youth and another child to the Maesglas property when AW went to the hospital. This was stated in the early evidence from the police officers.

All babies are different, mine slept through the police taking off my downstairs neighbours door. The whole place was shaking and I was sure she’d wake. But nope, slept straight through. If baby was safely asleep in their cot and there was a baby monitor, then it’s not unrealistic to think baby was still at the property. I take the bins out, hang washing or do other tasks when mine is asleep. It’s easier and I have the monitor so can get back if she starts stirring etc.
 
Status
Not open for further replies.

DNASolves

Who is Escambia County John Doe (1989)?

Members online

... and 139 more.
Total: 3,656 (members: 140, guests: 3,516)

Online statistics

Members online
140
Guests online
3,516
Total visitors
3,656
Totals may include hidden visitors.

Forum statistics

Threads
593,062
Messages
17,980,413
Members
229,004
Latest member
PCook77
Back
Top