UK- London Nine injured in suspected acid attack, children among injured 01/31/24

My natural instincts are very much opposed to imposing more controls on inanimate objects and substances as a method of crime control. If you have to control "things" it means you've lost control of certain sections of society by failing to educate them how to behave towards one another.

The other objection is that these methods are used by politicians as "sound-bite" easy fix solutions they use to pretend they are actually solving the problem at hand. It's a case of "doing something" regardless of what it is to turn down the political heat - just ban it, that'll sort the problem. Which it rarely does.

Someone who resorts to throwing acid in another's face is a deeply depraved individual who will resort to other means to hurt people. It's a massive lack of respect for other people (usually women), human life and wider society in general. Searching questions need to be asked as to what causes people to behave like that and why these people are living in an allegedly civilised society. IMO, obvs.
One does NOT exclude the other IMO :)

Every method is good to eradicate this particular vile crime.

Changing the society takes looooong time.

And prevention is needed NOW.
Better sooner than later.
After all, nobody wants it to spread like cancer.

From yesterday....


JMO
 
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I'd say the facts - namely that being the victim of an acid attack is vanishingly rare - are pretty comforting.

What isn't comforting, or sensible, is kneejerk hysteria about "epidemics" of what is in fact an exceptionally rare crime. It's the same sort of nonsense that makes people think that serial killers are on any street corner. That sort of innumerate fear-mongering does far more harm than the crimes themselves.
Violence against women and children is "epidemic", a scourge. The ways in which that violence is manifested have multiplied to now included corrosive chemical attacks.

No cause for alarm in the general public (that women are the majority) you say?
An example of a possible Police warning to a woman who has suffered domestic abuse: "Ma'am, if this violent person is approaching you but you see no weapon, gun, knife, club BUT if they're carrying a cup/bottle, run like hell!!"

Broadcasting to the mountain tops that type of thinking to the majority of the population (Women) for their and their children's protection, not knee jerk hysteria anyway you look at it. AJMO
 
Violence against women and children is "epidemic", a scourge. The ways in which that violence is manifested have multiplied to now included corrosive chemical attacks.

No cause for alarm in the general public (that women are the majority) you say?
An example of a possible Police warning to a woman who has suffered domestic abuse: "Ma'am, if this violent person is approaching you but you see no weapon, gun, knife, club BUT if they're carrying a cup/bottle, run like hell!!"

Broadcasting to the mountain tops that type of thinking to the majority of the population (Women) for their and their children's protection, not knee jerk hysteria anyway you look at it. AJMO
Beautifully and coherently expressed. Definitely the thoughts of a rationalist rather than a scaremonger.
 
I can't get that BBC link to work and the economist is behind a paywall
I've been wanting to talk about the history and about who's doing it now

I believe this history is part of the origin of the word 'vitriol'

Someone nowadays would use the word vitriol to mean very harsh words and speech
I think that began as a metaphor where somone would say 'she sprayed vitriol in his face' meaning she was verbally abusive

Before that it comes from the Latin for glass. I'm not sure if that's because acid is used in making glass, or because it sort of cuts like glass, or because crystallised ingredients look a bit like glass

In Victorian era it was (like poison was and remains) more often a weapon of women. Although ive read claims that statistically it was pretty equal and that that was more perception than fact

Its interesting to note how relatively less powerful most women were at the time

There is even an acid attack - referred to as vitriol - in one of the Sherlock Holmes stories.
The Adventure of the Illustrious Client from 1924 set in the Edwardian era (just after the Victorian)
The thrower is a women who is badly treated by a man, and if I remember she is given a lenient sentence. As i remember - and seems is not uncommon in literature of the time ( such as
Tess of the d'Urbervilles for example) - it's not made clear if the man has just been cruel and broken their engagement or if he has also abused her in multiple ways or even raped her. Sometimes such as in TotdU it is made vague by authors of the time on purpose. One thing to remember is the different context where at the time women were judged harshly and could lose significant 'value' and future prospects if they had unmarried sex or were raped.

It's my observation (and also mention in the beginning of that economist article before the paywall) in the present day the perpetrators of these crimes around the world are often men from cultures that again in my observation sometimes have similar beliefs about women today.

However interestingly the statistics in the UK specifically are more mixed depending who you ask. I am a little suspicious JUST MY OPINION about some of the disagreement and wonder what role something such as 'political correctness' may be playing in that discrepancy as has been speculated to have occured such as in the Rotherham scandal

P.s. the Sherlcok Holmes story was made into the character of Kitty in Elementary the TV show who ends up committing an acid attack on her rapist

Sources:







Acid attack - Wikipedia <- lots of info about present and history


From 2017 so stats may have changed:





@Sarahlou if you click on the Econ link in a browser a la Brave it should open. Same with BBC, though it might be geo-limited.

Very interesting history for sure. Such attacks do seem to ebb and flow with the times, but are always present. The use of corrosive substances does seem to mirror the "casualty over fatality" strategy seen in some conflicts, where the cost is higher for troops to save and heal the wounded -- here the "cost" seems to be associated with a profound mental and emotional toll as well as the physical horrors of such injuries (source: clinical experience).
 
I agree with the sentiment but it's not going to have an effect, sadly. Even if the type of person who did this kind of thing thought about it rationally, which clearly they never do, the chances are they'll have little or no money anyway.

The guy in the latest one was a refugee (who clearly shouldn't have been given leave to stay as he's a sex offender) so he'll not be rolling in cash.

Quite honestly, what we need are higher standards of behavior and respect towards others in society - from everyone, not just those from other countries or cultures. Too many people seem to have been brought up with an almost complete lack of respect or empathy towards other people, especially women.
It's rational thinkers that do this...and there's the rub...the action IS rational to their mind. JMO
 
Noting this attack.
Jan 30 2024
''The victim of an "acid attack" in Surbiton who was left blind after a corrosive substance was sprayed into his car has issued a warning to everyone to "never open their car window if a stranger encourages them to."

''He urged the public never to open car windows when approached by strangers and shared concerns that such attacks may be linked to gang initiations.

Spencer said: “My message to you all is never open your car window if someone pulls up next to you screaming at your car. I don’t want this to ever happen to anyone else.”
Bbm.
If they're shouting or screaming, pay attention to the words, as well.
This poor man. I cannot imagine.
Thankful he is warning others.
His life is forever altered.

An act of violence by a person to another can be acknowledged as an act of terror, and the perp as a terrorist.
Domestic or otherwise.
Stay vigilant, everyone !
Omo.
 

"The cruel Thames:

the job of pulling bodies from a dark, dangerous river.​


On average about 30 bodies are retrieved from its waters in London each year.
Only a few ever make the headlines.

Last year, the MPU retrieved 45 bodies.
Not all were from the Thames,
as the MPU also polices lakes, reservoirs and 200 miles of canal in Greater London.

But most will have been found washed up on the river’s mudflats and shingle beaches,
or floating in its fast-flowing current."

 

"The cruel Thames:

the job of pulling bodies from a dark, dangerous river.​


On average about 30 bodies are retrieved from its waters in London each year.
Only a few ever make the headlines.

Last year, the MPU retrieved 45 bodies.
Not all were from the Thames,
as the MPU also polices lakes, reservoirs and 200 miles of canal in Greater London.

But most will have been found washed up on the river’s mudflats and shingle beaches,
or floating in its fast-flowing current."

A bit lower that I'd thought. A mudlark I follow on social media estimated about one a week. (Mudlarks, by the nature of their hobby, have a much higher chance of finding a body in or beside the Thames than the average citizen. They're out there often very early, to catch the low tide when the most riverbank is exposed.)

MOO
 
"Marine experts warn Clapham chemical attack suspect Abdul Ezedi may never be found.

Experts have warned that the spot where the Clapham alkaline attack suspect is believed to have jumped into the River Thames could make it substantially harder to locate his body.

Now, outdoor enthusiast Eric Matechak, and expert diver Nicolai Lonne, have shared their insight on why it has been so difficult locating the suspect in the Thames.

Eric, who has an 'intimate understanding' of the river's 'unique challenges' said that tidal movements are strong around Chelsea Bridge, and they can 'drastically change the water level' at any moment.

The expert also detailed how it can be one of the toughest times of the year to conduct searches due to the harsh weather conditions.

Nicolai meanwhile explained that 'murky water' can be problematic in searching the Thames, as well as 'tougher' temperatures impacting the situation.

The two experts also warned not to
'expect miracles'
of finding the body,
explaining that the Thames is known for
'keeping secrets hidden'."

 
"Marine experts warn Clapham chemical attack suspect Abdul Ezedi may never be found.

Experts have warned that the spot where the Clapham alkaline attack suspect is believed to have jumped into the River Thames could make it substantially harder to locate his body.

Now, outdoor enthusiast Eric Matechak, and expert diver Nicolai Lonne, have shared their insight on why it has been so difficult locating the suspect in the Thames.

Eric, who has an 'intimate understanding' of the river's 'unique challenges' said that tidal movements are strong around Chelsea Bridge, and they can 'drastically change the water level' at any moment.

The expert also detailed how it can be one of the toughest times of the year to conduct searches due to the harsh weather conditions.

Nicolai meanwhile explained that 'murky water' can be problematic in searching the Thames, as well as 'tougher' temperatures impacting the situation.

The two experts also warned not to
'expect miracles'
of finding the body,
explaining that the Thames is known for
'keeping secrets hidden'."

Given there have been no sightings since, the river does seem the most plausible explanation.
 
I would also add financial punishment.
Like financing surgeries.
And, if the victim is unable to work b/c of injuries - to provide for a victim.

Tough!!!!
That is key here.

JMO

I'm not sure that victims would want to be financially aided by their attacker. I wouldn't.
 
My natural instincts are very much opposed to imposing more controls on inanimate objects and substances as a method of crime control. If you have to control "things" it means you've lost control of certain sections of society by failing to educate them how to behave towards one another.

The other objection is that these methods are used by politicians as "sound-bite" easy fix solutions they use to pretend they are actually solving the problem at hand. It's a case of "doing something" regardless of what it is to turn down the political heat - just ban it, that'll sort the problem. Which it rarely does.

Someone who resorts to throwing acid in another's face is a deeply depraved individual who will resort to other means to hurt people. It's a massive lack of respect for other people (usually women), human life and wider society in general. Searching questions need to be asked as to what causes people to behave like that and why these people are living in an allegedly civilised society. IMO, obvs.

IMO they've been studied for centuries
the 'searching question' of nurture or nature reveals no easy answer
society just needs to eliminate them IMO
 
Violence against women and children is "epidemic", a scourge. The ways in which that violence is manifested have multiplied to now included corrosive chemical attacks.

No cause for alarm in the general public (that women are the majority) you say?
An example of a possible Police warning to a woman who has suffered domestic abuse: "Ma'am, if this violent person is approaching you but you see no weapon, gun, knife, club BUT if they're carrying a cup/bottle, run like hell!!"

Broadcasting to the mountain tops that type of thinking to the majority of the population (Women) for their and their children's protection, not knee jerk hysteria anyway you look at it. AJMO

[bbm]

acid attacks are not a new or recent phenomenon
this article talks about it happening in the 1800's

 
[bbm]

acid attacks are not a new or recent phenomenon
this article talks about it happening in the 1800's

Yes I know but some UK hospitals have recently commented they're seeing more victims come in with these kind of injuries.

"Concerned doctors at Newcastle's Royal Victoria Infirmary have now told LBC they are treating “multiple patients a month, if not per week”, who have suffered injuries to their eyes from what is believed to be caustic alkali.

One source said: “Down in London alkaline attacks aren’t common, but in Newcastle alkaline attacks to the face like that are getting really, really common.

“We’re getting multiple, multiple of them a month, if not per week."

 

rbbm​

1708269094231.png
''The tomatoes appeared to narrowly miss the president when they were launched at him during a walkabout at a market in the suburbs of Paris.
Video of the attack showed the fruits hitting a bystander, with a blue bag following shortly after. Mr Macron’s security guards immediately opened a James Bond-style gadget after shouting “projectile!”.
The special Kevlar umbrella - known as the paraPactum - can withstand attacks with knives, dogs - and even petanque balls, according to its designers.
The device was brought into the Elysee armoury under Nicolas Sarkozy. It costs around €10,000 (£8,400) and comes in a secure black briefcase. The material has even been tested to withstand acid attacks.''

''A tailor-made protective device​

The ParaPactum is a protective device specifically dedicated to the security detail. With its carbon mast, it withstands more than 100 kg of pressure and winds of more than 200 km/hour. Equipped with an instant deployment, it can be used against the projection of elements thrown at full power (stone, bocce balls, acid jets), repels crowd movements and acts as a shield against knife or ice pick attacks. It also allows a quick and secure evacuation due to its 8-sided wing and its 130-centimeter (51-inch) wingspan.''
 
Frankly I'm surprised to see a serving prime minister walking that close to a tightly packed crowd even if they are mostly press and even in a cramped city

Does he do that often?!

Thats either irresponsible of his security team, or he overrules them in which case poor guys, imagine having to work that way
 

rbbm​

View attachment 484261
''The tomatoes appeared to narrowly miss the president when they were launched at him during a walkabout at a market in the suburbs of Paris.
Video of the attack showed the fruits hitting a bystander, with a blue bag following shortly after. Mr Macron’s security guards immediately opened a James Bond-style gadget after shouting “projectile!”.
The special Kevlar umbrella - known as the paraPactum - can withstand attacks with knives, dogs - and even petanque balls, according to its designers.
The device was brought into the Elysee armoury under Nicolas Sarkozy. It costs around €10,000 (£8,400) and comes in a secure black briefcase. The material has even been tested to withstand acid attacks.''

''A tailor-made protective device​

The ParaPactum is a protective device specifically dedicated to the security detail. With its carbon mast, it withstands more than 100 kg of pressure and winds of more than 200 km/hour. Equipped with an instant deployment, it can be used against the projection of elements thrown at full power (stone, bocce balls, acid jets), repels crowd movements and acts as a shield against knife or ice pick attacks. It also allows a quick and secure evacuation due to its 8-sided wing and its 130-centimeter (51-inch) wingspan.''
If only normal people could afford a 10000 euro umbrella

I strongly suspect it would be illegal in my country as we are legally not allowed (except in one state) to carry any defensive weapons, not even pepper spray!
 

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