UK- Major incident declared in Southport after multiple stabbings, 29 July 2024

[Sweeper2000]

I'm quite certain this individual did what he did purely to spread fear and terror amongst the population. That's terrorism obviously. I mean just look at the targets, tiny defenceless little children and the thing we all should love regardless. The things we do everything for. He chose his targets purely to maximise the pain and suffering and he got what he wanted. To inflict maximum damage. Terrorism to the core.

What do you mean?

I'm surprised he actually made ricin, but not so surprised about the other news.

Well if the people who have been convicted for those social media posts were convicted because they were spreading false information. Now we know it wasn't false and this is indeed Islamic terrorism or Islamic inspired terrorism then it isn't false is it? They were correct in what they posted assuming it didn't contain a call to violence.

 

[PoirotPink]

I'm quite certain this individual did what he did purely to spread fear and terror amongst the population. That's terrorism obviously. I mean just look at the targets, tiny defenceless little children and the thing we all should love regardless. The things we do everything for. He chose his targets purely to maximise the pain and suffering and he got what he wanted. To inflict maximum damage. Terrorism to the core.

Well if the people who have been convicted for those social media posts were convicted because they were spreading false information. Now we know it wasn't false and this is indeed Islamic terrorism or Islamic inspired terrorism then it isn't false is it? They were correct in what they posted assuming it didn't contain a call to violence.

But what they wrote was false. He's not a migrant and terrorism was ruled out as a motive, which remains to be the case. He has been charged under the terrorism act because possessing such material falls under the act. The same charge would apply to anyone found in possession of it by the police.

Also, the people convicted for what they posted on social media were convicted of specific offences relating to inciting racial hatred etc. They broke the law - clear and simple. Even if there was some truth in what they were posting, that wouldn't absolve them of their crime. People don't realise that we already had legislation in place to deal with such matters, and that people can be prosecuted for what they post online. The wave of prosecutions after the riots was in the public interest given the widescale disorder that erupted from those social media posts.

 

[Skigh]

Robert Jenrick says he is 'seriously concerned' over Southport case

Merseyside Police Chief Constable Serena Kennedy today insisted it was 'certainly not the case' that police were deciding to keep information from the public.

www.dailymail.co.uk

 

[RosalindaA]

I give the police credit for not attempting to cover up the Al Qaeda connection, and charging appropriately, after they handled the public information about this atrocity poorly at first.

I feel so sick and so sad for all these victims, Alice, Elsie and Bebe and the other children and adults so nearly murdered and the families and Southport.

All terrorists are psychopaths. To me it is unquestionable from the chosen target group of the victims, young girls and young female teachers taking part in a Taylor Swift dance workshop, that this was a planned attack on Western culture, a similar target group to the attack on the Manchester Ariana Grande concert.

British people knew from the start what this was. An outrage perpetrated upon our country and culture.

And it absolutely raises questions about freedom of speech, so-called "misinformation" can turn out to be the truth and so who is to judge what is false and what is truth? Who would not have been angry and made wild statements about this tragedy in the heat of the moment?

 

[worldwatcher]

<modsnip - quoted post was removed>

Very radical,if you ask me…
MHO
Inside life of Southport suspect accused of killing three young girls


Al Qaeda is an Islamist militant organization led by Sunni jihadists.

 

[Skigh]

No wonder Starmer stayed for as short as time as he could when he visited Southport if he knew ricin had been found as presumably at that time police did not know if any more was in the community.

 

[ekardh]

Well, blow me down with a feather! Turns out he wasn't the good little Welsh Christian the media wanted us to believe, and is in fact an Islamic extremist.

 

[Skigh]

Southport attack: Murder suspect Axel Rudakubana charged after ricin and al Qaeda manual found

Axel Rudakubana has already been charged with three counts of murder and 10 counts of attempted murder following the mass stabbing at a Taylor Swift-themed dance workshop in July.

news.sky.com

At a briefing today, Chief Constable Serena Kennedy from Merseyside Police said the teenager now faces two further charges related to evidence obtained by police following searches of his home after the attacks.

She said he now faces one charge of the "production of a biological toxin, namely ricin, contrary to Section 1 of the Biological Weapons Act 1974".

He also faces a terror charge of possession of information "likely to be useful to a person committing or preparing an act of terrorism, contrary to Section 58 of the Terrorism Act 2000".

She added that this charge relates to a PDF file entitled "Military Studies in the Jihad Against the Tyrants: The Al-Qaeda Training Manual".

 

[Dotta]

I have a question.

Will this individual be tried as a minor or an adult?

I don't remember this exact info.

 

[PoirotPink]

He also faces a terror charge of possession of information "likely to be useful to a person committing or preparing an act of terrorism, contrary to Section 58 of the Terrorism Act 2000".

<modsnip - bickering>

(1)A person commits an offence if—

(a)he collects or makes a record of information of a kind likely to be useful to a person committing or preparing an act of terrorism, or

(b)he possesses a document or record containing information of that kind.

If you go on to read the rest of the provision (as revised), you will find that it's possible for journalists and academics to be charged with this offence but that they may offer this as a "reasonable excuse" in their defence.

It's notable that he has NOT been charged under any of the other provisions of the Terrorism Act (including preparation of terrorist acts or membership of proscribed organisations).

 

[PoirotPink]

I have a question.

Will this individual be tried as a minor or an adult?

I don't remember this exact info.

I believe he's 18 now, so he will be tried as an adult.

 

[dotr]

Oct 29, 2024 #skynews #uk
The teenager accused of stabbing three girls to death in Southport faces a separate terror charge after police said a biological toxin and an al Qaeda training manual were found in a search of his home.Axel Rudakubana, 18, from Lancashire, is already charged with three counts of murder and 10 counts of attempted murder following the mass stabbing at a Taylor Swift-themed dance workshop in July.

#TheMirror #News #Police
Southport stabbing suspect charged with terror offence and production of poisonPress conference with Prof Tim Atkins (Defence Science Technology Laboratory) Chief Constable Serena Kennedy (Merseyside police) and Dr Renu Bindra (UKHSA) announcing charges against Southport knife attacker Axel Rudakubana.

 

[Dotta]

I believe he's 18 now, so he will be tried as an adult.

Thanks.
I asked b/c I know that the age when the crime was committed matters,
not age at trial.

Trial can be held even years later.

But,
if the defendant was 17 then (minor)
he still can be tried as an adult due to severity of crime.

But I'm not sure if it was ever mentioned.

JMO

 

[Sweeper2000]

But what they wrote was false. He's not a migrant and terrorism was ruled out as a motive, which remains to be the case. He has been charged under the terrorism act because possessing such material falls under the act. The same charge would apply to anyone found in possession of it by the police.

Also, the people convicted for what they posted on social media were convicted of specific offences relating to inciting racial hatred etc. They broke the law - clear and simple. Even if there was some truth in what they were posting, that wouldn't absolve them of their crime. People don't realise that we already had legislation in place to deal with such matters, and that people can be prosecuted for what they post online. The wave of prosecutions after the riots was in the public interest given the widescale disorder that erupted from those social media posts.

Twas a very English riot I believe. The only guy that got hurt was the guy who got hit in the balls with a brick by his friends then he got one in the head. By far the funniest thing I have seen in years.

 

[Skigh]

Government 'knew weeks ago' Southport suspect may face terror charges

Downing Street has denied accusations of a 'cover up' over details of the allegations, denying that facts had been held back.

www.dailymail.co.uk

 

[Legally Bland]

Twas a very English riot I believe. The only guy that got hurt was the guy who got hit in the balls with a brick by his friends then he got one in the head. By far the funniest thing I have seen in years.

I appreciate this is an attempt at humour, but it just isn't true that nobody else got hurt. This is just from Southport:

We are continuing to appeal for footage and information after more than 50 officers were hurt during disorder involving hundreds of people in Southport last night (Tuesday 30 July).

Of the 53 injured, 49 were Merseyside Police officers and four were Lancashire Police officers. Eight sustained serious injuries including fractures, lacerations, a suspected broken nose and concussion and were treated in hospital.

https://www.merseyside.police.uk/news/merseyside/news/2024/july/appeal-after-more-than-50-officers-injured-in-southport-disorder/

And things could have been much worse.

A man has admitted to trying set a hotel on fire where more than 200 asylum seekers were staying, a court heard.

Levi Fishlock stoked and threw a flaming bin at the Holiday Inn Express in Manvers, Rotherham, during a spate of disorder on 4 August.

He initially denied violent disorder and arson with intent to endanger life but pleaded guilty to the charges at Sheffield Crown Court earlier.

...

Sheffield Crown Court has heard how more than 200 asylum seekers were trapped in the upper floors as rioters smashed windows and set light to the bin.

Hotel staff have told the court how they barricaded themselves into a panic room during the rioting, fearing they would die as they smelt the smoke.

...

At the same court, another man admitted driving to the hotel in a pick-up truck laden with debris for rioters to hurl at police.

Man admits stoking bin fire at Rotherham asylum hotel riot

Levi Fishlock will be sentenced in December for his role in the disorder in Manvers in August.

www.bbc.co.uk

 

[Skigh]

Southport 'killer' appears in court charged with terror offence

The teenager (pictured) refused to speak when he appeared at Westminster Magistrates' Court this morning via video link from HMP Belmarsh.

www.dailymail.co.uk

Today the 18-year-old refused to answer questions and held a sweater over the bottom half of his face as he appeared at Westminster Magistrates' Court after being charged with offences under both the Biological Weapons and Terrorism Act.

He is accused of manufacturing the biological toxin ricin and having a study of a terrorist manual – namely Military Studies in the Jihad Against the Tyrants: The Al-Qaeda Training Manual.

 

[Skigh]

Authorities 'should be more open about probe into Southport

Jonathan Hall KC, who is an independent reviewer of terrorism laws, said the authorities must not fall into the 'trap' of refusing to tell the public what they know for fear of derailing court cases.

www.dailymail.co.uk

 

[PoirotPink]

I saw some chatter online and it seems, shockingly, the manual was once available to buy...

https://www.waterstones.com/book/military-studies-in-the-jihad-against-the-tyrants/anonymous/9781907521249

Other commentators online have said the document is freely available on university websites and also google books, so he didn't even need any advanced search skills to find this info.

 

[dotr]

He looks like he cannot stand his own stench, imo, speculation.

Southport ‘killer’ remains silent in court after 'Al-Qaeda manual & ricin found'

THE Southport “triple killer” remained silent as he appeared in court on terror charges today after an Al-Qaeda manual and ricin were allegedly found at his home. Axel Rudakubana is acc…

www.thesun.co.uk

Not every mass attack by a ‘lone actor’ is linked to terrorism, says UK expert

Jonathan Hall KC says having terrorist material does not always mean someone is a terrorist, as Southport suspect to appear in court

www.theguardian.com

rbbm.
''Hall told the BBC Radio 4’s Today programme: “I think these days the difference between whether an attack is a terrorist attack or not a terrorist attack is often wafer-thin. That’s just because of the profile of people who are now involved in attacks, by which I mean lone actors.

“You might say to yourself: ‘Why on earth would someone carry out a mass casualty attack; surely the only reason for doing an attack on strangers and killing people is to advance a terrorist cause?’

“But we know, don’t we, from the US where there are these terrible school massacres the whole time, those don’t seem to be terrorist attacks at all. These are often quite young people who are trying to emulate previous attacks, maybe to get notoriety, maybe because they have got a grievance against their school.''

''He added: “There are cases, it sounds bizarre but it’s absolutely true, where someone has got al-Qaida material, someone has got IRA material, someone’s got extreme right material and sometimes all that you can really say when you look at someone’s devices is: ‘This individual is fascinated with violence.’”