Found Deceased UK - Nicola Bulley Last Seen Walking Dog Near River - St Michaels on Wyre (Lancashire), Jan 2023 #18

[Nikynoo]

DBM

 

[Zuleika]

Re the 10 th Jan visit perhaps it was NB herself who called the police ?
Or her partner ,or her parents ,or her sister who might have revealed there was a mental health problem and a need to visit . Would it have made a difference if not NB herself ? Would she have felt betrayed should it have been another?

 

[Lindengracht]

Yes - originally it was reported that the lady caravan park owner had found the phone on the ground -- "somewhere" not necessarily near the bench -- and had picked it up and placed it on the bench. Over time, this report has been distorted into the phone being found on the bench, which is not true . . .

I believe the police have consistently stated that the phone was on the bench. I listened again to what I think was the first presser on Feb. 3rd, a week after NB's disappearance, and reread the transcript. Supt Sally Riley said "on the bench" several times. She misspoke and corrected herself, not about the location, but about the time. The phone was believed to be on the bench at 9:20 and found on the bench at 9:33am.
Quote:
[reporter] How was the phone known to be on the bench at 9:20 exactly?
[Supt Riley] Through telephony enquiries that we've done, relative to the phone itself, rather than through a witness.

 

[Cuko]

Re the 10 th Jan visit perhaps it was NB herself who called the police ?
Or her partner ,or her parents ,or her sister who might have revealed there was a mental health problem and a need to visit . Would it have made a difference if not NB herself ? Would she have felt betrayed should it have been another?

I guess it could have been anyone in the house at that time. As far as I know, the police have withheld the identity of the caller.

 

[ginnyw]

Re the 10 th Jan visit perhaps it was NB herself who called the police ?
Or her partner ,or her parents ,or her sister who might have revealed there was a mental health problem and a need to visit . Would it have made a difference if not NB herself ? Would she have felt betrayed should it have been another?

Those are good points. I always somehow imagined it would be her partner, but you are quite right in that it could have been somebody who was there on a visit, or even on the phone. Whatever it was it was, there's no doubting how close it was date-wise to the day when NB sadly disappeared.

 

[LibertySleuth]

then there’s the unusual fact the witnesses were related

Sorry if I've missed it in these extremely lengthy and info packed threads, but which witnesses were related please?

Or are you referring to the lady campsite owner and the daughter-in-law she phoned?

 

[EyeSpyU]

Most post mortems in the UK are done with whole body CT scanning and not the traditional autopsy.

That isn’t actually true, sadly.


Some post mortems can be done by scanning, but in cases such as Nichola Bulley who has died in unusual circumstances they need to do invasive autopsies. I don’t even think they could scan a body that’s been in water for three weeks as they need to insert tubes into various arteries etc, which would be almost impossible at such a stage. Also, they’ll want to examine her heart microscopically to see if she had any unknown electrical faults, that’s just one example.


I’ve pasted below some information on autopsies in the UK, which confirms that only certain cases are eligible for scanning in a post mortem:






“The PM imaging department offer adult and paediatric PM imaging. We regularly undertake forensic and coronial investigations using plain film x-rays, CT or MRI as appropriate.

We offer PMCT scans in the investigation of non-suspicious or traumatic deaths as an alternative to an invasive autopsy.

We also have experience in the use of imaging in mass fatality incidents.



PMCT instead of invasive autopsy

PMCT scans have replaced the need for the majority of invasive autopsies in non-suspicious deaths referred to UHL. PMCT may not suitable for all deceased and the pathologists will review each case and advise whether PMCT is likely to be sufficient for the investigation.

The service is run by pathology and imaging staff. Pathologists decide which deceased are referred for a scan based on the circumstances of death and medical information. Some deceased may need catheters (small tubes) inserted into their necks to enable special scans to be completed. This preparation is completed by staff in the mortuary. The patients are then scanned.”

 

[EyeSpyU]

This will not apply in the case of a body that's in a decomposed state?

Absolutely.

NB would’ve had a fully invasive autopsy.

It’s terribly upsetting for the family, but NIcola would know nothing about it, obviously, and it will give some answers to the family.

 

[EyeSpyU]

Im not sure if they would revert to the traditional method in this particular case.

They would have to.

NB had been in the water for three weeks…

 

[Simplistic67]

They would have to.

NB had been in the water for three weeks…

How do you know she was in the water for three weeks ?

 

[Simplistic67]

If the phone was still dialled into the conference call with her workplace, how was Ron able to see the phones wallpaper. The phone would have been in an active state, so wallpaper or a screensaver would not activate...would it ?

 

[Shadowplayed]

I guess it could have been anyone in the house at that time. As far as I know, the police have withheld the identity of the caller.

It could also have been a neighbour, having heard or seen events.

Agree that this is a significant missing part of the jigsaw, for us on the outside

 

[Cuko]

That isn’t actually true, sadly.


Some post mortems can be done by scanning, but in cases such as Nichola Bulley who has died in unusual circumstances they need to do invasive autopsies. I don’t even think they could scan a body that’s been in water for three weeks as they need to insert tubes into various arteries etc, which would be almost impossible at such a stage. Also, they’ll want to examine her heart microscopically to see if she had any unknown electrical faults, that’s just one example.


I’ve pasted below some information on autopsies in the UK, which confirms that only certain cases are eligible for scanning in a post mortem:






“The PM imaging department offer adult and paediatric PM imaging. We regularly undertake forensic and coronial investigations using plain film x-rays, CT or MRI as appropriate.

We offer PMCT scans in the investigation of non-suspicious or traumatic deaths as an alternative to an invasive autopsy.

We also have experience in the use of imaging in mass fatality incidents.



PMCT instead of invasive autopsy

PMCT scans have replaced the need for the majority of invasive autopsies in non-suspicious deaths referred to UHL. PMCT may not suitable for all deceased and the pathologists will review each case and advise whether PMCT is likely to be sufficient for the investigation.

The service is run by pathology and imaging staff. Pathologists decide which deceased are referred for a scan based on the circumstances of death and medical information. Some deceased may need catheters (small tubes) inserted into their necks to enable special scans to be completed. This preparation is completed by staff in the mortuary. The patients are then scanned.”

Very interesting, thank you.

 

[Auntie Cipation]

If the phone was still dialled into the conference call with her workplace, how was Ron able to see the phones wallpaper. The phone would have been in an active state, so wallpaper or a screensaver would not activate...would it ?

I don't know if a Teams call would be similar, but I think it probable:

When I use my phone to listen to an audiobook, if the phone stays still for long enough (~5 minutes I think, but it's customizable) eventually the sleep/black screen comes on. The audio recording continues playing.

I'm pretty sure that when I next pick up the phone, while still listening to the audiobook, the phone will "wake up" and will show my home screen with wallpaper, with the audio software showing in a smallish icon, covering less than half the screen.

MOO

 

[Cuko]

It could also have been a neighbour, having heard or seen events.

Agree that this is a significant missing part of the jigsaw, for us on the outside

A good point.

 

[Bibitty]

The biggest conundrum in this case is...The phone "approaching" the bench, and not the phone "taken" to the bench.
IMO that phone was located in the upper field...How it eventually ended up on the bench, time, analysis and hopefully forensics will

<modsni - quoted post and response to it removed>

The data showing "having suicidal thoughts' and 'actual suicide attempt' really do vary. Often the reason people might have thoughts but not go through with it....... is because of loved ones.

I think those of us who veer to this as an' accident' are not blaming the victim, but hoping the variable of cherishing loved ones is more powerful.

Suicidal Thoughts and Behaviors Among Adults Aged ≥18 ...

2015–2019 National Survey on Drug Use and Health data regarding ...

www.cdc.gov

“Often the reason people might have thoughts but not go through with it....... is because of loved ones.”

Where does that fact come from?

And is the implication then that those that do go through with it didn’t have significant love / loved ones?

Clearly suicide is unfathomable to many and many on these threads assert that she would never leave her children / loved ones / dog - but the suicidal mind is likely so distressed and disoriented to be rational that these claims are futile and are in stark contrast to the 5500 people who choose to take their lives in Eng & Wales each year - many or possibly most with children, loved ones and pets.

It’s excruciating to be the loved one of someone who has taken their own life and it’s exacerbated by ill-informed comments that enough love from loved ones could somehow have prevented the outcome.

 

[Haveyoufedthecat]

Re the 10 th Jan visit perhaps it was NB herself who called the police ?
Or her partner ,or her parents ,or her sister who might have revealed there was a mental health problem and a need to visit . Would it have made a difference if not NB herself ? Would she have felt betrayed should it have been another?

I've always wondered whether it perhaps was a neighbour, lets say hearing a row that went over the line, add into that picture two young girls in the house. TBH (although my neighbours haven't got young children) if I did hear a massive row that was escalating badly yes I would indeed ring the Police or at least knock on the door (obviously taking someone with me) to make sure all was safe.

 

[Haveyoufedthecat]

“Often the reason people might have thoughts but not go through with it....... is because of loved ones.”

Where does that fact come from?

And is the implication then that those that do go through with it didn’t have significant love / loved ones?

Clearly suicide is unfathomable to many and many on these threads assert that she would never leave her children / loved ones / dog - but the suicidal mind is likely so distressed and disoriented to be rational that these claims are futile and are in stark contrast to the 5500 people who choose to take their lives in Eng & Wales each year - many or possibly most with children, loved ones and pets.

It’s excruciating to be the loved one of someone who has taken their own life and it’s exacerbated by ill-informed comments that enough love from loved ones could somehow have prevented the outcome.

Many many apologies if admin don't allow but a good friend of mine was a Carer for a gentleman in a wheelchair. This gentleman was in a wheelchair because he attempted suicide by jumping off a high carpark.. what struck me most was that this gentleman told my friend it was though something completely took him over and he jumped. I would utterly agree with your comment that the suicidal mind is probably so distressed and disorientated it won't be rational.

 

[Justice_4_Holly]

I wonder if Sky and ITV not apologising or making statement because there’s a bit of lawyering going on.

Yep. An apology is an admission. They won’t do it, at least for now.

 

[UKjester]

Among the many things I find regrettable about this case, the fact PA or the family did not disclose there was a small chance things in her personal life may have resulted in her disappearance.
At the time, her father told a reporter “her mind was great” which I found very odd. I parked it as I thought it may have been the reporters question that lead him to respond with that phrase.
Why would PA not also disclose the situation to PF in readiness for his search?
I can understand the reasons for privacy but I do feel this resulted in an awful lot of speculation and social media involvement. It is so tragic.

<modsnip: Not victim friendly>