UK - Nurse Lucy Letby Faces 22 Charges - 7 Murder/15 Attempted Murder of Babies #14

[ColourPurple]

"Animated", "excited"

Well, what can one say?

I know we've pondered on here before, whether, if guilty, she actually enjoyed all the rituals related to the babies' deaths too, such as the memory boxes. But to see these comments in black and white from a doctor who was there, is chilling IMO. Especially after LL's 'He's not leaving here alive, is he?' comment!


'Staff Nurse Letby was against the door and she was very animated, saying to the parents "Do you want me to make a memory box, like I did for (Baby) O?"

'I remember thinking "This is not a new baby, this is a dead baby. Why are you so excited about this?"

'That's how she was. Saying "Do you want me to make a memory box" like it was a bounty pack. I found that very inappropriate. It was the way it was said, not what was said.'

Lucy Letby: Doctor nearly begged for triplet to go to another hospital

The neonatal nurse (pictured), 33, is accused of administering fatal doses of air to both infants in successive days while working at the Countess of Chester Hospital in June 2016.

www.dailymail.co.uk

All IMO

 

[Dotta]

I know we've pondered on here before, whether, if guilty, she actually enjoyed all the rituals related to the babies' deaths too, such as the memory boxes. But to see these comments in black and white from a doctor who was there, is chilling IMO. Especially after LL's 'He's not leaving here alive, is he?' comment!


'Staff Nurse Letby was against the door and she was very animated, saying to the parents "Do you want me to make a memory box, like I did for (Baby) O?"

'I remember thinking "This is not a new baby, this is a dead baby. Why are you so excited about this?"

'That's how she was. Saying "Do you want me to make a memory box" like it was a bounty pack. I found that very inappropriate. It was the way it was said, not what was said.'

Lucy Letby: Doctor nearly begged for triplet to go to another hospital

The neonatal nurse (pictured), 33, is accused of administering fatal doses of air to both infants in successive days while working at the Countess of Chester Hospital in June 2016.

www.dailymail.co.uk

All IMO

"Like I did for Baby O"

seems to be additional "rubbing salt into the wound" of grieving and shocked parents.

In the disguise of care.


That is how I sense it.

JMO

 

[WaxLyrical]

That daily mail article offers up some of the most damning evidence of LL’s demeanour after the deaths in my opinion. It was alluded to with the smiley “baby’s first bath” situation, but it was always difficult to know whether she was just a strange and awkward oddball. But this doctor’s recollections, the description of offering a memory box as though it was a bounty pack, is powerful. I can only imagine how her own parents must have felt listening to that.

Such a shame the reporting has become so utterly abysmal. A trial of potentially the worst female serial killer in our country’s history, and lucky to get a tweet here or there. This article goes to show just how much of an insight the jury really is getting, that we have no idea about. JMO.

 

[ColourPurple]

More info from the female doctor's evidence yesterday:

She said she remembered the brothers’ father was “absolutely sobbing and literally begging” for the surviving triplet to be taken from the Countess of Chester.

The consultant said: “Even though I didn’t beg, in my heart and mind I just wanted him to leave because that’s the only way he was going to live.”

Ben Myers KC, defending, asked her: “Is that because you thought the Countess of Chester’s neonatal unit was unable to cope or are you suggesting that Lucy Letby poses such a danger to small babies?”

The doctor replied: “It definitely was not because the Countess of Chester was not able to cope with a baby like (the surviving triplet). They were completely normal triplets who were expected to run a healthy course.

“I was extremely worried. I couldn’t understand what had gone on in the last two days. In my mind what had gone on was not normal. “At that point in time I just wanted (the surviving triplet) to be in a safe place.”

Mr Myers asked: “Because of the danger posed by nurse Letby?”

“Yes,” she said.

The barrister went on: “Did you call the police?”

“No,” said the consultant.

Mr Myers said: “If you really thought a nurse was hurting or killing babies you would have been yelling it from the rooftops, wouldn’t you? What about other babies on the unit?”

She explained that at the time she thought the “correct thing” to do was to raise the matter with her colleagues a few days later, and with the neonatal ward manager.

Mr Myers accused her of “dramatising for the benefit of the jury and these proceedings”. The doctor replied: “No, that’s honestly how I felt at the time. I have no intention of dramatising events. It’s tragic enough as it is.”

She told Mr Myers she was unaware there was a “focus” on Letby being present at the time of child deaths. She said she had no reason to suspect her of anything up to the point of the deaths of Child O and Child P.

Mr Myers asked: “Did you hear gossip, comment, finger-pointing about Lucy Letby?” She replied: “Yes, but vaguely. Nothing concrete implicating deaths and increasing mortality rates.”

Mr Myers said: “Who were making these comments?”

The doctor said: “Other junior doctors, some consultant colleagues. But again not in a way that would make you think anything untoward in the way of harm being done was going on.”

Mr Myers suggested Letby was only voicing her concern about Child P in the hours before he died.

The consultant replied: “I can only speak for myself.”

Mr Myers went on: “Do you think there is a danger here – because it’s Lucy Letby we are dealing with – for her comments to be taken out of context and made to sound quite a lot worse?”

The consultant said: “I found it unusual given the circumstances.”

She agreed all the medics involved with Child P, including Letby, were trying their best in looking after him.

Doctor ‘shocked’ as Lucy Letby asked if baby was ‘leaving here alive’

A DOCTOR was “shocked” when Lucy Letby asked whether a baby was “leaving here alive”, the nurse’s murder trial heard.

www.herefordtimes.com

 

[JosieJo]

More info from the female doctor's evidence yesterday:

She said she remembered the brothers’ father was “absolutely sobbing and literally begging” for the surviving triplet to be taken from the Countess of Chester.

The consultant said: “Even though I didn’t beg, in my heart and mind I just wanted him to leave because that’s the only way he was going to live.”

Ben Myers KC, defending, asked her: “Is that because you thought the Countess of Chester’s neonatal unit was unable to cope or are you suggesting that Lucy Letby poses such a danger to small babies?”

The doctor replied: “It definitely was not because the Countess of Chester was not able to cope with a baby like (the surviving triplet). They were completely normal triplets who were expected to run a healthy course.

“I was extremely worried. I couldn’t understand what had gone on in the last two days. In my mind what had gone on was not normal. “At that point in time I just wanted (the surviving triplet) to be in a safe place.”

Mr Myers asked: “Because of the danger posed by nurse Letby?”

“Yes,” she said.

The barrister went on: “Did you call the police?”

“No,” said the consultant.

Mr Myers said: “If you really thought a nurse was hurting or killing babies you would have been yelling it from the rooftops, wouldn’t you? What about other babies on the unit?”

She explained that at the time she thought the “correct thing” to do was to raise the matter with her colleagues a few days later, and with the neonatal ward manager.

Mr Myers accused her of “dramatising for the benefit of the jury and these proceedings”. The doctor replied: “No, that’s honestly how I felt at the time. I have no intention of dramatising events. It’s tragic enough as it is.”

She told Mr Myers she was unaware there was a “focus” on Letby being present at the time of child deaths. She said she had no reason to suspect her of anything up to the point of the deaths of Child O and Child P.

Mr Myers asked: “Did you hear gossip, comment, finger-pointing about Lucy Letby?” She replied: “Yes, but vaguely. Nothing concrete implicating deaths and increasing mortality rates.”

Mr Myers said: “Who were making these comments?”

The doctor said: “Other junior doctors, some consultant colleagues. But again not in a way that would make you think anything untoward in the way of harm being done was going on.”

Mr Myers suggested Letby was only voicing her concern about Child P in the hours before he died.

The consultant replied: “I can only speak for myself.”

Mr Myers went on: “Do you think there is a danger here – because it’s Lucy Letby we are dealing with – for her comments to be taken out of context and made to sound quite a lot worse?”

The consultant said: “I found it unusual given the circumstances.”

She agreed all the medics involved with Child P, including Letby, were trying their best in looking after him.

Doctor ‘shocked’ as Lucy Letby asked if baby was ‘leaving here alive’

A DOCTOR was “shocked” when Lucy Letby asked whether a baby was “leaving here alive”, the nurse’s murder trial heard.

www.herefordtimes.com

From this written version only ..it sounds like this witness would have come across well for the prosecution

 

[LadyEdgeworth]

More info from the female doctor's evidence yesterday:

She said she remembered the brothers’ father was “absolutely sobbing and literally begging” for the surviving triplet to be taken from the Countess of Chester.

The consultant said: “Even though I didn’t beg, in my heart and mind I just wanted him to leave because that’s the only way he was going to live.”

Ben Myers KC, defending, asked her: “Is that because you thought the Countess of Chester’s neonatal unit was unable to cope or are you suggesting that Lucy Letby poses such a danger to small babies?”

The doctor replied: “It definitely was not because the Countess of Chester was not able to cope with a baby like (the surviving triplet). They were completely normal triplets who were expected to run a healthy course.

“I was extremely worried. I couldn’t understand what had gone on in the last two days. In my mind what had gone on was not normal. “At that point in time I just wanted (the surviving triplet) to be in a safe place.”

Mr Myers asked: “Because of the danger posed by nurse Letby?”

“Yes,” she said.

The barrister went on: “Did you call the police?”

“No,” said the consultant.

Mr Myers said: “If you really thought a nurse was hurting or killing babies you would have been yelling it from the rooftops, wouldn’t you? What about other babies on the unit?”

She explained that at the time she thought the “correct thing” to do was to raise the matter with her colleagues a few days later, and with the neonatal ward manager.

Mr Myers accused her of “dramatising for the benefit of the jury and these proceedings”. The doctor replied: “No, that’s honestly how I felt at the time. I have no intention of dramatising events. It’s tragic enough as it is.”

She told Mr Myers she was unaware there was a “focus” on Letby being present at the time of child deaths. She said she had no reason to suspect her of anything up to the point of the deaths of Child O and Child P.

Mr Myers asked: “Did you hear gossip, comment, finger-pointing about Lucy Letby?” She replied: “Yes, but vaguely. Nothing concrete implicating deaths and increasing mortality rates.”

Mr Myers said: “Who were making these comments?”

The doctor said: “Other junior doctors, some consultant colleagues. But again not in a way that would make you think anything untoward in the way of harm being done was going on.”

Mr Myers suggested Letby was only voicing her concern about Child P in the hours before he died.

The consultant replied: “I can only speak for myself.”

Mr Myers went on: “Do you think there is a danger here – because it’s Lucy Letby we are dealing with – for her comments to be taken out of context and made to sound quite a lot worse?”

The consultant said: “I found it unusual given the circumstances.”

She agreed all the medics involved with Child P, including Letby, were trying their best in looking after him.

Doctor ‘shocked’ as Lucy Letby asked if baby was ‘leaving here alive’

A DOCTOR was “shocked” when Lucy Letby asked whether a baby was “leaving here alive”, the nurse’s murder trial heard.

www.herefordtimes.com

Wow, this is very compelling testimony. I wonder why Myers opened up the question of "are you suggesting that Lucy Letby poses such a danger to small babies?”
Because what if she had said yes outright?

 

[ColourPurple]

Wow, this is very compelling testimony. I wonder why Myers opened up the question of "are you suggesting that Lucy Letby poses such a danger to small babies?”
Because what if she had said yes outright?

She did pretty much do that anyway here:

“I was extremely worried. I couldn’t understand what had gone on in the last two days. In my mind what had gone on was not normal. “At that point in time I just wanted (the surviving triplet) to be in a safe place.”

Mr Myers asked: “Because of the danger posed by nurse Letby?”

“Yes,” she said.

And Myer's goes back to his trusty "If it was that bad why didn't you call the police" response.

Doctor ‘shocked’ as Lucy Letby asked if baby was ‘leaving here alive’

A DOCTOR was “shocked” when Lucy Letby asked whether a baby was “leaving here alive”, the nurse’s murder trial heard.

www.herefordtimes.com

 

[Tortoise]

That daily mail article offers up some of the most damning evidence of LL’s demeanour after the deaths in my opinion. It was alluded to with the smiley “baby’s first bath” situation, but it was always difficult to know whether she was just a strange and awkward oddball. But this doctor’s recollections, the description of offering a memory box as though it was a bounty pack, is powerful. I can only imagine how her own parents must have felt listening to that.

Such a shame the reporting has become so utterly abysmal. A trial of potentially the worst female serial killer in our country’s history, and lucky to get a tweet here or there. This article goes to show just how much of an insight the jury really is getting, that we have no idea about. JMO.

I'm also reminded of the parents of baby C, whose mother is a GP, being so shocked when LL said she thought he was going to die and asking her if she wanted to call a priest, and then going in the family room with a cooling basket and saying 'you've said your goodbyes, do you want me to put him in here'.

 

[katydid23]

She did pretty much do that anyway here:

“I was extremely worried. I couldn’t understand what had gone on in the last two days. In my mind what had gone on was not normal. “At that point in time I just wanted (the surviving triplet) to be in a safe place.”

Mr Myers asked: “Because of the danger posed by nurse Letby?”

“Yes,” she said.

And Myer's goes back to his trusty "If it was that bad why didn't you call the police" response.

Doctor ‘shocked’ as Lucy Letby asked if baby was ‘leaving here alive’

A DOCTOR was “shocked” when Lucy Letby asked whether a baby was “leaving here alive”, the nurse’s murder trial heard.

www.herefordtimes.com

And if someone does go to the authorities in the hospital to report her, Meyer says " was that because people were suspicious from the start, because of rumours and confirmation bias?"

So if you do report her, it was unfounded and biased ----but if you fail to report her, you were wrong too.

 

[LorriB]

I'm also reminded of the parents of baby C, whose mother is a GP, being so shocked when LL said she thought he was going to die and asking her if she wanted to call a priest, and then going in the family room with a cooling basket and saying 'you've said your goodbyes, do you want me to put him in here'.

I don't think they said it was LL who said the last sentence.

 

[LadyEdgeworth]

And if someone does go to the authorities in the hospital to report her, Meyer says " was that because people were suspicious from the start, because of rumours and confirmation bias?"

So if you do report her, it was unfounded and biased ----but if you fail to report her, you were wrong too.

Exactly!!

If you report her, well you're ganging up on her like everyone else is and spreading rumours. If you don't report her, why didn't you?

Also no offense but the police would not give a flying flip if your rang and told them your nurse colleague acted weird after the death of a baby, you'd just get the dial tone. What were these people meant to report as most of them were only seeing a few incidents or small moments not the bigger picture at that time.

 

[katydid23]

From this written version only ..it sounds like this witness would have come across well for the prosecution

I think so too, especially because of the optics of this particular group of alleged attacks.

She was on vacation----no collapses at hospital for that 10 days?

The very night she returns, allegedly, the first of 3 healthy babies collapse unexpectedly, 3 nights in a row.

The jury is trying to wrap their head around that, after hearing about 18 previous alleged assaults---and then they begin hearing about doctors who have begun discussing their fears that LL was possibly responsible for this mayhem.

I think this last group of alleged assaults has been hard hitting info. JMO

 

[katydid23]

I don't think they said it was LL who said the last sentence.

Baby C:

"A nurse he thought may have been Letby came in with a ventilated basket. She allegedly told the couple: 'You've said your goodbyes. Do you want me to put him in here?'

She described the nurse as being in her mid to late 20s with a fair complexion and her hair in a ponytail.


[...]

The court heard that Baby C was born by Caesarean section at 3.31pm on June 10, 2015.

After three days he was doing so well that staff were planning to give him his first feed of milk.

But at 11.20pm on June 14 the infant's mother was woken in the post-natal ward [...]

'It was explained that his heart rate had suddenly dropped and he had stopped breathing [...]

'They'd given him a very small amount of milk a few minutes before, but they didn't think this was relevant.

[...]

She described the nurse as being in her mid to late 20s with a fair complexion and her hair in a ponytail.


Premature baby survived 'injection of air', Lucy Letby trial hears

 

[Tortoise]

I don't think they said it was LL who said the last sentence.

"A nurse he thought may have been Letby came in with a ventilated basket. She allegedly told the couple: 'You've said your goodbyes. Do you want me to put him in here?'

'This comment shocked us,' admitted the father.

'My wife said: 'He's not dead yet'. The nurse backed off and tried to defuse the situation, but I couldn't believe she'd said that'.

Premature baby survived 'injection of air', Lucy Letby trial hears

"A nurse accused of murdering seven babies would not leave alone the parents of a newborn boy she allegedly killed until she was ordered to do so by her supervisor, a court has heard.

Driver went on: “You instructed her to return her attention to [her designated baby] once or more than once?” The witness said: “More than once.”

Lucy Letby case: nurse ‘would not leave parents of dead newborn alone’

Earlier today, the court heard that a senior nurse on duty with alleged baby killer Letby had to tell her repeatedly to come out of a room Baby C's parents were spending their last moments with their son after she'd been involved in failed attempts to revive him.

"Nurse B, who cannot be named for legal reasons, said her fellow Band 6 nurse Melanie Taylor was the one meant to offer the family a memory box [...]

But she had only done so 'partly'. The rest of the process was carried out, unbidden, by Letby.

Baby C's father has previously told the jury that Letby interrupted them as his life ebbed away in the family room following the attempts at resuscitation.

Lucy Letby: 'Baby killed by nurse showed signs of life for FIVE HOURS'

 

[katydid23]

Lucy Letby: 'Baby killed by nurse showed signs of life for FIVE HOURS'

A baby allegedly murdered by nurse Lucy Letby showed intermittent signs of life for five hours after a medical crash team called off their desperate attempts to resuscitate him, a court heard today.

www.dailymail.co.uk

Nurse B, who cannot be named for legal reasons, said her fellow Band 6 nurse Melanie Taylor was the one meant to offer the family a memory box of hand and foot prints and a lock of hair.

But she had only done so 'partly'. The rest of the process was carried out, unbidden, by Letby.

Speaking from behind a screen at Manchester Crown Court, Nurse B said: 'When [Baby C] went to the family room with his parents and grandparents, I re-assigned everyone who had been in Nursery 1 to different babies

'I asked Lucy to focus back in N3 because I was still concerned about him. However, Lucy went into the family room a few times and I asked her to come out and to leave that family with Mel.'

Asked by Simon Driver, prosecuting, whether Letby had any reason to go in, she replied: 'Not that I can remember. It was more than once. I can't recall how many times.'

She agreed with Ben Myers, KC, defending, that his client had been involved in the failed resuscitation attempts.

But when he asked her to confirm that Letby had later gone back to N3 as instructed, she replied: 'Yes – after a number of times asking.'


Baby C's father has previously told the jury that Letby interrupted them as his life ebbed away in the family room following the attempts at resuscitation.

His wife was upset that her newborn was still gasping and had a pulse. A doctor had to explain that it was a brainstem response, and to comfort him the baby was given morphine.

The father said that a nurse he thought may have been Letby came in with a ventilated basket, allegedly telling the couple: 'You've said your goodbyes. Do you want me to put him in here?'

'This comment shocked us,' he recalled in a written statement. 'My wife said: ''He's not dead yet''.

'The nurse backed off and tried to defuse the situation, but I couldn't believe she'd said that.'

 

[LorriB]

The Chester live reporting didn't say it was LL who said this. Just 'a nurse'. I think it's likely to be more accurate than DM.

 

[katydid23]

The Chester live reporting didn't say it was LL who said this. Just 'a nurse'. I think it's likely to be more accurate than DM.

They quoted the mother of the baby, describing the nurse, and also saying she believes it was LL. I believe the parents before I believe Chester Live.


Baby C's father has previously told the jury that Letby interrupted them as his life ebbed away in the family room following the attempts at resuscitation.

His wife was upset that her newborn was still gasping and had a pulse. A doctor had to explain that it was a brainstem response, and to comfort him the baby was given morphine.

The father said that a nurse he thought may have been Letby came in with a ventilated basket, allegedly telling the couple: 'You've said your goodbyes. Do you want me to put him in here?'

... described the nurse as being in her mid to late 20s with a fair complexion and her hair in a ponytail.
Premature baby survived 'injection of air', Lucy Letby trial hears

 

[katydid23]

Also, the senior nurse said she had to warn Nurse Letby to stay out of the family room, and leave them alone. But LL kept returning to the room, in spite of being told not to.

 

[Tortoise]

The Chester live reporting didn't say it was LL who said this. Just 'a nurse'. I think it's likely to be more accurate than DM.

Chester don't capture everything. It's great that there are different reporters capturing different bits. Liz Hull at the Daily Mail is there all day every day, she produces the weekly podcast, and is very hot on her responsibilities of accurately reporting only what the jury hears. She's conducted several interviews on the podcast with media law specialists discussing that very subject.

Several witnesses have said essentially the exact same thing about LL, that she made shocking and inappropriate comments and gestures.

 

[esther43]

<modsnip - off topic quoted post removed>
Mr Myers said: “Who were making these comments?”

The doctor said: “Other junior doctors, some consultant colleagues. But again not in a way that would make you think anything untoward in the way of harm being done was going on.”