UK - Nurse Lucy Letby Faces 22 Charges - 7 Murder/15 Attempted Murder of Babies #15

[katydid23]

Dan O'Donoghue
Lucy Letby's murder trial continues this morning. We're expecting to hear evidence from expert witness Dr Andreas Marnerides. He'll be taking the court over pathology reports. Ms Letby is accused of murdering seven babies and attempting to murder 10 others. She denies all charges
2:09 AM · Mar 29, 2023
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Jury are currently being read the pathology reports for a number of children in the case - they have been warned that there is a lot of incredibly dense medical detail and will be provided with a glossary of terms afterwards. Dr Marnerides due in witness box later this morning


Whoops---you and I on same page again @Tortoise , lol

You go ahead cuz I will be snoring soon

 

[Tortoise]

Andreas Marnerides

www.guysandstthomas.nhs.uk

The pathologist Andreas Marnerides

Biography​

Andreas Marnerides leads the forensic children's pathology service at Guy's and St Thomas' NHS Foundation Trust. He joined Guy's and St Thomas' in 2013.
Before joining us he was a consultant at the Karolinska University Hospital, Stockholm, Sweden.

Education and training​

• Diploma of medical jurisprudence (DMJ(path)), Society of Apothecaries of London
• Histopathology, perinatal and children's pathology training, Karolinska University Hospital, Stockholm, Sweden
• Forensic medicine and toxicology speciality training, University of Thessaloniki, Greece
• Forensic medicine and toxicology training, University of Athens, Greece
• MD and PhD in autopsy, University of Athens, Greece

 

[Tortoise]

I'm going to be particularly interested in cross-examination of this witness. I hope Dan is on top form today..

I don't think Liz Hull of the podcast is in court for the next couple of weeks, but they did say they were going to have Kim Pilling on while she is away.

 

[ColourPurple]

Help please folks! I've totally overlooked any sources re. the above & can't pin them down. If anyone can point me in the right direction it would be much appreciated, thank you. xx

The last podcast. Wish they'd do a transcript too.

 

[ColourPurple]

That's a very good point. After reading it last night, I quickly decided my theory must have been incorrect, as this doctor said there was no discussion of LL doing any harm.

But after sleeping on it, I am wondering if maybe this doctor didn't want to publicly admit the fact that they all suspected that a nurse was attacking babies for a solid year?

I think she would have tipped off Dr NiceGuy, when he started getting interested in LL, if that had been the case though.

 

[katydid23]

I think she would have tipped off Dr NiceGuy, when he started getting interested in LL, if that had been the case though.

I am still kind of wondering if Dr NiceGuy did hear some of the concerns---and maybe didn't believe it , until at some point, maybe he did start having concerns as well?

Babies O, P and Q were actually quite shocking----back to back to back, unexplained collapses, out of the blue?

 

[ColourPurple]

That is why the question of motive is is important in understanding this crazy case.

IF the motive was just to harm and kill babies and that was allegedly the payoff for the defendant, then it would make no sense to invite someone into her darkness.

However, if her alleged motive was all about gaining attention, being the martyr, playing the victim,

If guilty, I think attention was part of it but not the sole reason. I think to carry on allegedly killing babies and apparently being excited about offering memory boxes, she likely enjoyed all of it, inflicting physical pain on the babies, inflicting emotional pain on the parents, the baptisms, the memory boxes, dressing the dead babies, the power of being able to fool everybody to the extent that the parents even thanked her IF guilty, IMO!

 

[Tortoise]

We know that consultants didn't want LL to come back on the unit after baby P, and that she was assigned baby Q the next day in room 2. And she said she had to leave baby Q to go to her baby in room 1.

I'll be really very surprised if consultants didn't ask for her not to be allocated to room 1, after two deaths.

 

[marynnu]

reference to a nurse asking specifically for doctor choc, or doctor A as they refer to him in the podcast, is in the latest episode.

The Trial of Lucy Letby, Episode 25: The Triplets, Part 2: Baby P, “He’s not leaving here alive, is he?” she asked a doctor...

www.mailplus.co.uk

The last podcast. Wish they'd do a transcript too.

Thanks both. I missed the latest podcast entirely, not like me!!

 

[ColourPurple]

I am still kind of wondering if Dr NiceGuy did hear some of the concerns---and maybe didn't believe it , until at some point, maybe he did start having concerns as well?

Babies O, P and Q were actually quite shocking----back to back to back, unexplained collapses, out of the blue?

Yes I'm interested to know if and when he started doubting her. Her reaction in court (if it wasn't jsut done to manipulate him) suggested that she may have been shocked or upset that he was behind a screen, so maybe he supported her for a while even after she was taken off the floor.

 

[Tortoise]

Yes I'm interested to know if and when he started doubting her. Her reaction in court (if it wasn't jsut done to manipulate him) suggested that she may have been shocked or upset that he was behind a screen, so maybe he supported her for a while even after she was taken off the floor.

The female doctor testified that she raised her concerns about LL with colleagues at their regular Monday meeting, after baby P (and Q) and supporting the decision to move the third triplet out.

 

[Kemug]

I am still kind of wondering if Dr NiceGuy did hear some of the concerns---and maybe didn't believe it , until at some point, maybe he did start having concerns as well?

Yes, surely he must have eventually become suspicious. After all, doctors are not normally noted for their stupidity!

 

[Tortoise]

https://twitter.com/MrDanDonoghue

Dr Marnerides, who leads the forensic children's pathology service at Guy's and St Thomas' Hospitals, is now in witness box. He reviewed tissue samples from Child A, who the Crown say was murdered by Ms Letby in June 2015 via air injection

The medic says from his review, he found 'globules' in the veins in the lungs and brain tissue that were most likely air, he said this air 'most likely went there while this baby was alive'

 

[Tortoise]

Just pointing out the number of expert opinions the prosecution sought for child A alone

Paediatrician Dr Dewi Evans
Neonatologist Dr Sandie Bohin
Radiologist Professor Owen Arthurs
Haematologist Professor Sally Kinsey
Pathologist Dr Andreas Marnerides

 

[ColourPurple]

The female doctor testified that she raised her concerns about LL with colleagues at their regular Monday meeting, after baby P (and Q) and supporting the decision to move the third triplet out.

Ahhh you think he would've been there in the meeting too?

 

[Tortoise]

Ahhh you think he would've been there in the meeting too?

I think it's likely because he was messaging LL about paperwork that day.

 

[Tortoise]

Andreas Marnerides

www.guysandstthomas.nhs.uk

The pathologist Andreas Marnerides

Biography​

Andreas Marnerides leads the forensic children's pathology service at Guy's and St Thomas' NHS Foundation Trust. He joined Guy's and St Thomas' in 2013.
Before joining us he was a consultant at the Karolinska University Hospital, Stockholm, Sweden.

Education and training​

• Diploma of medical jurisprudence (DMJ(path)), Society of Apothecaries of London
• Histopathology, perinatal and children's pathology training, Karolinska University Hospital, Stockholm, Sweden
• Forensic medicine and toxicology speciality training, University of Thessaloniki, Greece
• Forensic medicine and toxicology training, University of Athens, Greece
• MD and PhD in autopsy, University of Athens, Greece

I'm always impressed when people can operate at these levels in multiple languages. Greek, Swedish and English!

 

[ColourPurple]

JMO if guilty I do feel attention will play a part somewhere..I do wonder if a potential killer may kill based on different emotions

Frustration or being vexed over not nursing babies in itu

Attention from the drama of crash calls

Jealousy when a Dr innocently goes to lunch with a colleague

Enjoying parents grief etc etc

Could someone have a variety of motives depending on their feelings at the time ?

I think if guilty, IMO a lot of it could be summed up as her seeing the babies as just tools that she could use to meet her needs (whatever those needs were at the time).

IMO IF guilty etc

 

[Sweeper2000]

JMO if guilty I do feel attention will play a part somewhere..I do wonder if a potential killer may kill based on different emotions

Frustration or being vexed over not nursing babies in itu

Attention from the drama of crash calls

Jealousy when a Dr innocently goes to lunch with a colleague

Enjoying parents grief etc etc

Could someone have a variety of motives depending on their feelings at the time ?

What’s that about jealousy? If it was in the podcast must have missed it.

 

[marynnu]

I'm always impressed when people can operate at these levels in multiple languages. Greek, Swedish and English!

I'm just impressed if people can manage English.