UK - Nurse Lucy Letby, Faces 22 Charges - 7 Murder/15 Attempted Murder of Babies #19

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Hey everyone,

This is a reminder that ANY expressed opinion related to the guilt or innocence of the accused is sub judice. Please read Post #2 of the Opening Posts in this discussion.

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Also, this thread is to discuss the trial, not statistics or other cases.

Thank you.
 
Think of it logically. She’s not a married person with a couple of kids and a garage full of junk to move. At that point she was mid twenties living in hospital accommodation on site - do not know what type but maybe just one room and bathroom/kitchen ?
She’s not going to have much “ stuff “ at this point in her life I wouldn’t of thought.
Clothes, maybe her own bed, bit of kitchen stuff and personal bits and bobs.
She KNEW she had those handover sheets so much so she had separated them into different bags and boxes …. Some at her parents marked “ keep “
Sorry …. I’m not buying what she is selling, she’s lying through her teeth.
My very humble opinion obviously.
 
She had those notes and other bits a number of years. They literally moved around with her from her doctors halls to her house and even her parents. Even if in her wildest dreams she didn’t expect to be arrested she absolutely knew it was wrong and unethical to have those notes but she still hung onto them. She hung onto them because she wanted to.

If she took them from one place to another, then another, it is harder for her to plausibly claim she just forgot about them.
Yes the fact that she took them from her nursing residence to her new home, suggests that they were important to her. And the fact that she lied about why she didn't dispose of them suggests that she didn't want to tell police the real reason she'd kept them. IMO
 
I agree re People, it's why they get the celeb interviews they do, I'm more wondering if they might have taken a small liberty with their headline which says 'will' but the CPS source said 'expect to'. Expect is not the same as will.

I want them to be correct, we all do, don't we? I just don't want to be building up my hopes for a LL on the stand only to have them dashed next week.
I'm not building my hopes up either. I think they've just seen the other reports saying that she may give evidence, (which has always been a possibility) and ran with it. They had nothing to lose as the headline will get them clicks and there's a 50/50 chance of them being right.
 
I'm not building my hopes up either. I think they've just seen the other reports saying that she may give evidence, (which has always been a possibility) and ran with it. They had nothing to lose as the headline will get them clicks and there's a 50/50 chance of them being right.
So many doubters...:)
 
An obsessional, compulsive disorder that just causes her to hoard just handover notes?
A diary where she writes incidents down 'as they come to her' ?
With a professional reputation as a 'jobs worth' and a serial datexer.
It doesn't quite fit for me as it all just feels a bit 'under the radar' I think it more points towards LL hiding things, a more simplistic view.
I think if her house was full of boxes and other random stuff she'd collected there would more weight to a hoarding problem.

Do we know if she was hoarding or holding onto other sorts of things? What condition her home was in?
 
According to the court lists yes she was.
It’s all beyond weird.
Thanks for checking that. So perhaps on Friday the judge was talking to LL about the adverse inference risk and it was disclosed in court that she would testify? Am I right in thinking as soon as the prosecution rests it's case, this is what happens next?
Also, could the judge have put in place advisories to UK press they are not allowed to publish it? And would this be non applicable to American journalists due to them working under different laws? Just trying to think if this what PM meant when they said the CPS reported to PM magazine... That it was reported in court where PM were present. Either that or it's just a load of old tripe intended to stir up a public response.
 
Think of it logically. She’s not a married person with a couple of kids and a garage full of junk to move. At that point she was mid twenties living in hospital accommodation on site - do not know what type but maybe just one room and bathroom/kitchen ?
She’s not going to have much “ stuff “ at this point in her life I wouldn’t of thought.
Clothes, maybe her own bed, bit of kitchen stuff and personal bits and bobs.
She KNEW she had those handover sheets so much so she had separated them into different bags and boxes …. Some at her parents marked “ keep “
Sorry …. I’m not buying what she is selling, she’s lying through her teeth.
My very humble opinion obviously.

As all of us here, I would like to know far more about her and need way more facts before putting my own ideas on it but yes I wholly agree that moving from student digs to a house then to another house... that's the time when you start packing and boxing up what you've got and weeding out old redundant paperwork and excess items. As a young person in student digs she would have barely had much at all bar clothes, toiletries, and IT equipment.

I wonder why some said 'keep' as that clearly implies the rest were to 'not keep' but why didn't she destroy them.

Not personal to LL as I don't know her and slightly off topic - but - over the years, I've noticed certain types of personality (disordered) people that are mostly described as 'cluster B' (if one chooses to believe in these categories is a different issue again) have a high propensity to a cloying sentimentality that makes little sense when combined with low empathy and high entitlement. They also love to talk about death a lot - people who they've known who've died but also people they barely know such as neighbour's or work colleagues relatives dying. Almost to the point one wishes to challenge them and say hang on why are you (faux) crying at work because your next door neighbour's gardeners daughter's schoolfriend died?
JMO MOO
 
Thanks for checking that. So perhaps on Friday the judge was talking to LL about the adverse inference risk and it was disclosed in court that she would testify? Am I right in thinking as soon as the prosecution rests it's case, this is what happens next?
Also, could the judge have put in place advisories to UK press they are not allowed to publish it? And would this be non applicable to American journalists due to them working under different laws? Just trying to think if this what PM meant when they said the CPS reported to PM magazine... That it was reported in court where PM were present. Either that or it's just a load of old tripe intended to stir up a public response.

How about since the court system has not precluded LL from speaking and it has not been overtly declared she will not and cannot take the stand, that some press have decided to 'interpret' this as she may be expected to. Well indeed. We also may expect snow in May and may expect to win the lottery.
 
As all of us here, I would like to know far more about her and need way more facts before putting my own ideas on it but yes I wholly agree that moving from student digs to a house then to another house... that's the time when you start packing and boxing up what you've got and weeding out old redundant paperwork and excess items. As a young person in student digs she would have barely had much at all bar clothes, toiletries, and IT equipment.

I wonder why some said 'keep' as that clearly implies the rest were to 'not keep' but why didn't she destroy them.


JMO MOO

The box marked Keep was found in her bedroom at her parents home and only contained 5 handover sheets.It was in an empty shredder box and the word Keep was written on the box.

The rest of the handover notes were found at LL's home. There was a shredder in the spare room of her home, along with shredded bank statements.

She moved from nursing accomodation to her own home in April 2016. AFAWK she didn't move back with her parents till after her arrest, suggesting that the notes found there on the date of her first arrest were taken there during visits.

JMO
 
Re taking the stand

My opinion only

Well, what has she got to lose really?

She was reported to be "softly spoken" and "nice".
She seems to be well spoken, she is educated and intelligent.

Add to this her obvious confidence while talking about medical matters using medical jargon.

For me the evidence looks damning.

And if ever I was to be swayed in MY opinion it would ONLY be listening to HER.

Besides, I respect courageous people, and it takes courage to stand and defend oneself in front of all - spectators and media.

Do it LL!
For yourself and your poor parents.

I will listen to you attentively.
With all posters here on WS.

JMO
 
Incoming ramblings about handover sheets..

In my opinion, it’s quite clear she was choosing to keep the handover notes, and systematically brought them home from each shift. There have been several instances where she’s had an air of entitlement about her (eg doing things she’s been told by superiors not to). So with the handover notes, she knows she shouldn’t keep them, she may even report someone else for doing it, but for some reason she feels like she is above the rules and somehow justifies to herself that it’s ok for her to have them. Same with her WhatsApp messaging about patients.

I don’t find the Ibiza bag particularly suspicious, given that they contained her last few handover notes before she was taken off the unit, and she would likely have had an Ibiza bag lying around at that time. To me it feels like she just gathered up whatever was lying on a table that week and shoved it in a bag, where it remained.

The box marked “keep”, I’d need to know more about. Because it contains sheets which don’t appear just now to have any relevance. It feels to me like some kind of residual papers in a box that got caught up in some stuff/papers which was genuinely to be kept. Perhaps stuff that was being returned to her parents during her move. Eg hi Lucy there were a few bits of paper from work in that box, I’ve left it in your cupboard.

I’d like to know whether the other handover notes found in the Morrisons bag related to families she was regularly searching for on FB. That stuff does feel like it’s been set aside, compared to the 200 other handover notes. Is it so she can remember the names of the families she’s interested in for future reference?

On the FB searching more generally, I don’t get the impression she’s a grief vampire, I think it’s another extension of her seeking validation and praise. For example, if she looks up a child she cared for on their birthday, or Christmas, she might be hoping to see something like “we are so grateful to the nurses…”. Or, if it’s a baby that passed away, maybe she’s looking for a photo of the memory box, or a photo she took of the baby, or some other thing that somehow validates she’s had a lasting impact.

JMO. Irrespective of guilt.
 
How about since the court system has not precluded LL from speaking and it has not been overtly declared she will not and cannot take the stand, that some press have decided to 'interpret' this as she may be expected to. Well indeed. We also may expect snow in May and may expect to win the lottery.
True. Great poster ID btw! Might take a leaf out of your book.
 
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