UK - Nurse Lucy Letby, Faces 22 Charges - 7 Murder/15 Attempted Murder of Babies #23

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The point I was making is that it's easy to say the wrong thing occasionally, even when not under pressure.
True, but there are also things called Freudian slips---which show the unconscious motivations behind said slips. Speaking and answering questions can be a very complicated process, involving the mental, emotional, physical and psychological systems.
 
It must be terribly strange for her parents watching her performance. I wonder if they have a different read of her behaviour or whether the “it wasn’t me, I don’t remember, it was someone else’s fault, everyone else has it wrong, nobody around me was competent” routine is familiar to them.
They have probably heard her version of things for many years. I think LL said she spoke to her mother every day, even about her work day. And LL said how proud her parents were of her going to college and getting such a good job, etc.

So as things unfolded, I am pretty sure LL was filling her mum in about every thing. My guess is she was making herself out to be the victim. So they would have her back and they may still believe her.
 
I take your point. I suppose her changing it means it meant something to her. If she hadn't done so, I wouldn't be convinced it matters at all!
I think it is the context of the entire situation which is suspicious.

--Baby is doing well with no expectations of an imminent collapse.
--DN leaves unit and asks colleagues to babysit
--LL comes from brightly lit hallway to darkened room, and is able to see baby's skin color from across room and baby under a flap
--when she sees distress symptoms, she doesn't immediately go over to help
--Instead, she waits and asks a junior nurse if she sees the problem

Within the context above, the wording seemed sketchy. All of the above seemed to indicate she might have been looking for something she expected to see
 
If she is telling the innocent truth of what happened, then it shouldn't be so complicated. JMO
IMO taking the stand is only for the innocent wrongly accused.
Only telling the truth and nothing but the truth can help a person to go through this ordeal.
Or maybe a cold blooded and intelligent psychopath who can lie without batting an eyelid and stay perfectly calm.

Others don't stand a chance.

But it is only my opinion :)
 
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IMO taking the stand is only for the innocent wrongly accused.
Only telling the truth and nothing but the truth can help a person to go through this ordeal.
Or maybe a cold blooded and intelligent psychopath who can lie without batting an eyelid and stay perfectly calm.

Others don't stand a chance.

But it is only my opinion :)

Yes, this is so true, based on previous trials where a defendant has testified much to their detriment. We don't know whether LL will be found guilty or not at this time but I remember the Jodi Arias trial where she thought she was so clever and could get the better of the prosecutor. Spoiler alert- she couldn't. However, at the recent Thomas Cashman trial in this same Manchester Crown Court, the poor key witness was put through the ringer by defence Counsel but she stuck to her guns and IMO came across as very credible. Even though she admitted lying to the police. The jury must have thought so too because they convicted Cashman of murder. All IMO.
 
I'm intending to go to the trial next week, so you all might get an insider account of her manner etc.

I think it highly unlikely you'll get in from what we've heard about how limited the spaces are.

If you do you should be extremely cautious about what you report from it. Unless you are well schooled in court reporting then it's probably best not to say anything on here. You are under the same legal duties and obligations as members of the press. If they aren't saying things it's usually because they legally can't.

Reporting her demeanor could well be a contempt of court as could many other things.
 
I think it highly unlikely you'll get in from what we've heard about how limited the spaces are.

If you do you should be extremely cautious about what you report from it. Unless you are well schooled in court reporting then it's probably best not to say anything on here. You are under the same legal duties and obligations as members of the press. If they aren't saying things it's usually because they legally can't.

Reporting her demeanor could well be a contempt of court as could many other things.

I'm not sure it's that hard to get in. There are several people who say they've turned up after proceedings have started and have no problem.
 
IMO taking the stand is only for the innocent wrongly accused.
Only telling the truth and nothing but the truth can help a person to go through this ordeal.
Or maybe a cold blooded and intelligent psychopath who can lie without batting an eyelid and stay perfectly calm.

Others don't stand a chance.

But it is only my opinion :)

Yep. It's not easy, if you think you are more intelligent than you are and underestimate how difficult it will be, you are in trouble.
 
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I'm not sure it's that hard to get in. There are several people who say they've turned up after proceedings have started and have no problem.
Surprised by that, tbh. The reports have always given the impression that it's a small court and even most of the press are in a separate annexe.
 
So if she was there actively looking for signs of medical distress, and saw some, wouldn't she rush to the cot and begin emergency aid? I mean, instead of standing there and asking ' if baby looked a little pale?'

It seemed like she was wanting the other, less senior nurse, to make the call and take over.

Also, are you ignoring the other main issue, which is how she could see when she came from the brightly lit hallway into the much darker room and with the cot partially covered by a flap ?

I've watched a lot of trials over the years. I rarely, if ever, have seen the defendant asking for a break from being questioned before lunch. Or for their testimony being cut down to 2 days a week, and from there, to half a day at a time.

It is very unusual. IMO
I agree, the lighting is a completely separate issue to be determined and one would hope that some resolution can be reached without she said/ she said (I’m thinking in terms of showing the room with the possible various lighting options).

My post was about what has become this “gotcha” moment because she said “looking for “ rather than “looking at”, and how it is in my opinion a non issue (and could have been completely avoided if LL provides clearer , fuller answers).

And I absolutely agree about LL being able to halt proceedings so she can have a break being unusual. But I assume this is the judge being very clever. I assume he is allowing this in order to shut down any possibility that if she is found guilty of some or all of the charges, she is able to successfully appeal on the grounds that she didn’t get a fair trial because she has PTSD and depression, and these were not taken into account properly when she was giving evidence for many hours over many days.

By letting her take breaks when she said she needs them, or when he observes her to be particularly distressed, he is ensuring that the proceedings do take into account as much as possible her mental health conditions. Obviously there is a limit to this and the criminal trial is adversarial in its very nature, so you cannot completely eliminate that aspect from these proceedings, but you can try to mitigate it as much as possible.
 
I think it highly unlikely you'll get in from what we've heard about how limited the spaces are.

If you do you should be extremely cautious about what you report from it. Unless you are well schooled in court reporting then it's probably best not to say anything on here. You are under the same legal duties and obligations as members of the press. If they aren't saying things it's usually because they legally can't.

Reporting her demeanor could well be a contempt of court as could many other things.
Won’t get into court itself. They have the separate rooms where most of the press and I assume members of the public are watching the trial via video link. But are spaces also limited in those rooms?
 
Surprised by that, tbh. The reports have always given the impression that it's a small court and even most of the press are in a separate annexe.
From what I understand only babies' parents and LL's parents are in the main court. There is an overflow court for general public, another court for press, and another court in Chester for families who can't travel to Manchester.
 
Won’t get into court itself. They have the separate rooms where most of the press and I assume members of the public are watching the trial via video link. But are spaces also limited in those rooms?
The descriptions given of her seem to be of someone who is uniformly inexpressive otherwise known as being “flat”. Emotional blunting is a well known feature of ptsd and depression, I know it’s not Avery nice way to be. I would attend if I could.
 
I think it highly unlikely you'll get in from what we've heard about how limited the spaces are.

If you do you should be extremely cautious about what you report from it. Unless you are well schooled in court reporting then it's probably best not to say anything on here. You are under the same legal duties and obligations as members of the press. If they aren't saying things it's usually because they legally can't.

Reporting her demeanor could well be a contempt of court as could many other things.
As long as it's factual and objective it shouldn't be a problem.

"She immediately corrected herself, replacing 'for' with the word 'at'.

Mr Johnson responded with a sigh. 'Ah. 'I knew what I was looking for'. What did you mean by that?'

Looking distressed, Letby replied: 'I didn't mean it like that. I'm finding it hard to concentrate'. She added: 'I'm not sure of the dates at the moment'.

The defendant remained silent in her chair, her eyes sometimes darting from side to side, at other times closing for a few seconds, as the trial judge, Mr Justice Goss, intervened to call an early halt to the day's proceedings."


Lucy Letby five 'murdered babies after their parents went to get rest'

JMO
 
There’s nothing necessarily implicative about that event in court with her realising she put her foot in it. asi from the words her reactions could be either way.
 
Yep. It's not easy, if you think you are more intelligent than you are and underestimate how difficult it will be, you are in trouble.
Her problem, I think, is that she thinks she's sharper than the prosecution. She's certainly intelligent but intelligence isn't what gets you through these sorts of things.

She comes over as being very "full of herself" and I think she's spent day after day in her cell convincing herself of her arguments and second guessing what questions are going to be thrown at her and the answers she'll give and how she'll humiliate the prosecution barrister. She's not getting the questions she anticipated, though, and if she is she's failed to anticipate the response she'd get to her answers and doesn't have a reply.

She's quite intelligent, imo, she has a nursing qualification and seems to have progressed quite rapidly to where she was at but she definitely isn't confident in giving sharp replies to questions. Fits in with the early reports that she's a bit socially awkward, imo. She gets flustered easily. To be honest, my opinions of her have changed quite significantly - in think she has a lot to get flustered about!
 
There’s nothing necessarily implicative about that event in court with her realising she put her foot in it. asi from the words her reactions could be either way.

It was enough for her to immediately correct herself, for the prosecution to question why she said it, and for her to then give up for the day. I don’t necessarily think it’s a smoking gun by any means, but I do think it’s a slip up that’s worthy of some attention IMO
 
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