UK - Nurse Lucy Letby, Faces 22 Charges - 7 Murder/15 Attempted Murder of Babies #24

[katydid23]

All I’ve seen so far is from the Chester Standard, saying there may be further evidence from the defence…not sure what that means, or if it’s just not worded very well.

Recap: Lucy Letby trial, June 9 - cross-examination continues

The trial of Lucy Letby, who denies murdering seven babies at the Countess of Chester Hospital neonatal unit and attempting to murder 10 more, is…

www.chesterstandard.co.uk

"The judge tells the jury of the next steps in the trial, which may have further evidence for the defence case. The next listed day for the jury will be next Wednesday (June 14)."

I think the only way they can bring in 'further evidence' is from witness testimony. They either have medical experts or perhaps character references from supporters? Could they have coworkers from the unit to corroborate some of her testimony? I am very curious to see who they bring to the witness box. If anyone.

 

[Observe_dont_Absorb]

Me neither. One of the people commenting in an early article when she was first arrested said he knew LL through a former girlfriend but I'm not aware of any report that specifically mentions a boyfriend of LL saying anything.

NJ's comments about her having a boyfriend tends to suggest that she did have one (which to me at east gave the impression that it was not Dr Choc) but that has been given a different slant by the recent post from the member here who was at the court today.

I think that's the male I was thinking of, right back then. My mistake, apologies. I wonder if she was known to have dated anyone much at all?

 

[Marantz4250b]

I could be totally wrong but I read it as dr choc married but separated. At one point he offers her his car to drive home. This would be risky if not separated as someone could see her driving and he’d have to explain to his wife where his car had gone. Not sure either way on this one.

I think I said ages ago that this doctor wasn't married (or at least unlikely to be) due to him offering her his car. That's a risky thing to do as if it comes out that you're letting your younger female "friend/colleague" use your car it can raise red flags very quickly indeed.

Looks like I was wrong there but him being separated and in the throes of a divorce does make sense in that regard as he'd have no fear of the wife finding out.

 

[Marantz4250b]

I think that's the male I was thinking of, right back then. My mistake, apologies. I wonder if she was known to have dated anyone much at all?

I've certainly not read anything about her dating life anywhere online. She certainly had a busy social life so I'd be surprised if she hadn't had a few boyfriends over the years. Holidays in Ibiza are not usually taken by people withh a propensity to live like Nuns/Monks after all!

 

[Tortoise]

His wife wouldn't have known about the car if LL drove it home late in the evening. He was working the nightshift, car would have been all night in the hospital carpark normally while he was working, he'd pick it up in the morning, at the end of his nightshift, from her house.

 

[notsure]

dbm

 

[Observe_dont_Absorb]

His wife wouldn't have known about the car if LL drove it home late in the evening. He was working the nightshift, car would have been all night in the hospital carpark normally while he was working, he'd pick it up in the morning, at the end of his nightshift, from her house.

Ah yes!

However, the more I think about it, the only rational offer to a colleague who is distressed and / or unwell and needs to get home safely is order a minicab or arrange another colleague to drive her. Doctors of all people know this.

 

[Sundial]

I think I said ages ago that this doctor wasn't married (or at least unlikely to be) due to him offering her his car. That's a risky thing to do as if it comes out that you're letting your younger female "friend/colleague" use your car it can raise red flags very quickly indeed.

Looks like I was wrong there but him being separated and in the throes of a divorce does make sense in that regard as he'd have no fear of the wife finding out.

This is a valid possibility re the separated/divorced idea, but I also wanted to share, that some student nurses (and possibly even trainee doctors I expect) do sometimes actually stay over in hotels for their 6-12 week training blocks because it’s more affordable and less taxing after a long 12 hour shift than the commute. I’ve actually worked with a student who was looking at staying closer to their placement rather than do the 4 hour round commute following their 12 hour shift. Perhaps this is a similar thing.

I’ve also known even of workmen on hospital sites who have long commutes back home; where projects are 2-3mths to live closer to their work (temp) rather than long daily commutes. Loaning of cars or days out in these periods whether you had a spouse or not, would not necessarily need to be explained. Even as later on in 2017 (I think was referred to), the rotational posts or training events are still a factor that could be possible to avoid any questions.

All my own experience and JMO etc

 

[katydid23]

Are we sure of this though?

Yes because Dr Choc was not working at COCH unit until about halfway through the charges.

 

[Kemug]

I am totally knackered, I am off to bed now lol
I was up at 4am and it took 4.5hrs to drive home again, but I am sooo glad I went ! I am pretty sure this was the best day of cross examination yet.

You are 5 gold star heroine!

 

[Cardgame]

Married men having affairs engage in risky behaviour. That's part of the thrill of having the affair. Saying 'he wouldn't do that because it's risky' is missing the whole point: the thrill! The risk of being caught! Makes life interesting!

Poor old Dr choc probably didn't realize *quite* how risky fraternizing with this particular young blonde nurse would turn out to be!

 

[Legal]

Hi all! I also attended yesterday. CS2C we probably saw each other! It was very interesting. I'll let CS2C write their opinions first but I did stay for the afternoon as I live a lot closer, so I'll mention a few of my thoughts on that. It felt to me IMO that Myers just wanted to do a very quick rebuttal and get her off the stand. He also seemed to lead her with her answers. For example, he asked her why she would remember some babies and not others and she said it depended how much care you gave them, if you were their allocated nurse etc. He then asked if they all spent the same amount of time on the ward. She said no, some are there for a matter of hours, others 6 months. So he was suggesting answers IMO and leading her the whole way through. I felt she was very robotic, emotionless, expressionless, speaking from a place of logic rather than from the heart, trying to think of a way to answer the questions, rather than speaking from a position of truth. However, in fairness that could be due to having been imprisoned for 3 years and the whole situation so probably isn't a reflection on guilt/innocence.

I felt he really belaboured showing the pictures of her socialising. NJ had said she was out on the razz, drinking fizz and at the races (such old-fashioned, posh expressions hehe, IMO, like being sweet on someone and a leisure suit ) so Myers showed pictures of her with her family, on days out etc I think to paint the picture she wasn't out getting drunk the whole time. Personally, I feel it missed the point the prosecution was trying to make regarding her mental state and feeling isolated.

Not sure how much I can say about the rest of the defence's case as I can't remember what was said with the jury out of the room but there was uncertainty as to whether Wednesday would have other witnesses or would be the judge summing up and then closing statements. The court is open to the public on Tuesday but no jury, from what I can remember.

Anyway I'm interested to hear CS2C's views. I totally agree with the snapping response they mentioned, though I'd forgotten which question it was a response to, so well remembered!

 

[Legal]

Duplicate post.

 

[Tortoise]

I've only just realised the reason Mr Johnson pointed out that the handover sheet in her keepsake box was in pristine condition. Even LL seemed surprised that it was the original he showed to her, and not a copy. I think it showed that it hadn't been crumpled up in her pocket all day, it had been carefully transported to her keepsake box, with intention, going right back to her first day in the job.

I also think the surname searches she did in 2017 (O&P) and 2018 (K) shows she didn't recall the parents' names, she would only have had the babies' names on the handover sheets as reference.

JMO

 

[ColourPurple]

Married men having affairs engage in risky behaviour. That's part of the thrill of having the affair. Saying 'he wouldn't do that because it's risky' is missing the whole point: the thrill! The risk of being caught! Makes life interesting!

Exactly! And he said he'd worked all over the region, so his wife could've been living miles away. Even the examples of what they did together gave away the fact he was married IMO. They went for walks, they went for coffee, they went to London, he went to her house... but no mention of them ever going to his house.

And the chances that LL wouldn't use the opportunity to paint herself in a better light on the stand by pointing out that he was divorced or separated at the time, if she could, are zero IMO. He was married.

What I found more interesting though was that their trip to London (according to the podcast)was on 8 June 2017, which was the two year anniversary of Baby A's death! Just another coincidence? Or if guilty, did she want to "celebrate" the anniversary of her first murder with Doc Choc?

JMO

 

[CS2C]

Hi all! I also attended yesterday. CS2C we probably saw each other! It was very interesting. I'll let CS2C write their opinions first but I did stay for the afternoon as I live a lot closer, so I'll mention a few of my thoughts on that. It felt to me IMO that Myers just wanted to do a very quick rebuttal and get her off the stand. He also seemed to lead her with her answers. For example, he asked her why she would remember some babies and not others and she said it depended how much care you gave them, if you were their allocated nurse etc. He then asked if they all spent the same amount of time on the ward. She said no, some are there for a matter of hours, others 6 months. So he was suggesting answers IMO and leading her the whole way through. I felt she was very robotic, emotionless, expressionless, speaking from a place of logic rather than from the heart, trying to think of a way to answer the questions, rather than speaking from a position of truth. However, in fairness that could be due to having been imprisoned for 3 years and the whole situation so probably isn't a reflection on guilt/innocence.

I felt he really belaboured showing the pictures of her socialising. NJ had said she was out on the razz, drinking fizz and at the races (such old-fashioned, posh expressions hehe, IMO, like being sweet on someone and a leisure suit ) so Myers showed pictures of her with her family, on days out etc I think to paint the picture she wasn't out getting drunk the whole time. Personally, I feel it missed the point the prosecution was trying to make regarding her mental state and feeling isolated.

Not sure how much I can say about the rest of the defence's case as I can't remember what was said with the jury out of the room but there was uncertainty as to whether Wednesday would have other witnesses or would be the judge summing up and then closing statements. The court is open to the public on Tuesday but no jury, from what I can remember.

Anyway I'm interested to hear CS2C's views. I totally agree with the snapping response they mentioned, though I'd forgotten which question it was a response to, so well remembered!

Where were you sitting !?
I might have been sitting next to you.

 

[WaxLyrical]

I've only just realised the reason Mr Johnson pointed out that the handover sheet in her keepsake box was in pristine condition. Even LL seemed surprised that it was the original he showed to her, and not a copy. I think it showed that it hadn't been crumpled up in her pocket all day, it had been carefully transported to her keepsake box, with intention, going right back to her first day in the job.

I also think the surname searches she did in 2017 (O&P) and 2018 (K) shows she didn't recall the parents' names, she would only have had the babies' names on the handover sheets as reference.

JMO

Minor point, but there was no handover sheet for K.

On the name spelling, I was a bit confused by this. Are they saying it was spelled wrong on the handover sheet, and that’s the spelling she used for the search?

 

[Tortoise]

Hi all! I also attended yesterday. CS2C we probably saw each other! It was very interesting. I'll let CS2C write their opinions first but I did stay for the afternoon as I live a lot closer, so I'll mention a few of my thoughts on that. It felt to me IMO that Myers just wanted to do a very quick rebuttal and get her off the stand. He also seemed to lead her with her answers. For example, he asked her why she would remember some babies and not others and she said it depended how much care you gave them, if you were their allocated nurse etc. He then asked if they all spent the same amount of time on the ward. She said no, some are there for a matter of hours, others 6 months. So he was suggesting answers IMO and leading her the whole way through. I felt she was very robotic, emotionless, expressionless, speaking from a place of logic rather than from the heart, trying to think of a way to answer the questions, rather than speaking from a position of truth. However, in fairness that could be due to having been imprisoned for 3 years and the whole situation so probably isn't a reflection on guilt/innocence.

I felt he really belaboured showing the pictures of her socialising. NJ had said she was out on the razz, drinking fizz and at the races (such old-fashioned, posh expressions hehe, IMO, like being sweet on someone and a leisure suit ) so Myers showed pictures of her with her family, on days out etc I think to paint the picture she wasn't out getting drunk the whole time. Personally, I feel it missed the point the prosecution was trying to make regarding her mental state and feeling isolated.

Not sure how much I can say about the rest of the defence's case as I can't remember what was said with the jury out of the room but there was uncertainty as to whether Wednesday would have other witnesses or would be the judge summing up and then closing statements. The court is open to the public on Tuesday but no jury, from what I can remember.

Anyway I'm interested to hear CS2C's views. I totally agree with the snapping response they mentioned, though I'd forgotten which question it was a response to, so well remembered!

Thanks Legal. Questions for you and CS2C,

Were the pages of her social photo album put up on the screens for the jury and public to see, or was it just a document he handed her for her to look at?

Were you surprised, seeing what you saw of her, that she took the stand? What I mean is, do you think she took the stand reluctantly, or from what you think of her, you would have fully expected her to want to outdo the prosecution?

 

[Tortoise]

Minor point, but there was no handover sheet for K.

On the name spelling, I was a bit confused by this. Are they saying it was spelled wrong on the handover sheet, and that’s the spelling she used for the search?

Ah yes!!! How on earth did she remember her surname then, from just having seen her for a matter of hours, and not being her nurse or meeting the parents.

They were testing her answer that she did the searches from her memory, because she had a good memory, rather than having looked it up on the handover sheet. Wasn't for baby K I don't think, they didn't say which baby it was.

 

[Diddly1]

As children we were scared of ’the bogeyman’ and told to go to a police man if you were lost or in trouble. Over the years that’s not such good advice, (and I’m saying this as the mother of a high ranking police officer, NOT in the MET) Nurses, were angels in every sense of the word, and it wouldn’t cross your mind that babies could be allegedly murdered by a nurse or brutally assaulted, also allegedly. This case is haunting and unfortunately if found guilty all nurses will be tarred with her sins. MOO