UK - Nurse Lucy Letby Faces 22 Charges - 7 Murder/15 Attempted Murder of Babies #8

[katydid23]

Could the defence be holding back on questions about Baby F because they want to bring them up when they get to Baby L's insulin poisoning case, and if they ask them now the prosecution would be pre-warned of their strategy, and therefore better prepared for their questions about Baby L's case?

Possibly, but I would still expect they might say, we do have questions and we will bring them to you in future days when we revisit this subject. Or something to signal the jury that they are not just going along with the statements set forth by the prosecution. JMO

 

[Kemug]

Broken trust of the public is irreparable

But not as irreparable as a longed-for, innocent little baby having its life taken.

 

[Observant-ADHD-ENFP-BSc]

But not as irreparable as a longed-for, innocent little baby having its life taken.

Not just one.

 

[Observant-ADHD-ENFP-BSc]

From what I can recall, there were one (or two?) staff and co-workers that had a level of suspicion and I understand why the other staff members didn't suspect anything, because to actually think that any one of their co-workers would purposely want to hurt a baby is beyond their scope of being a normal, moral human being. So even if their was a flicker of doubt, it would be brushed off with what you would expect to be a passing thought, that you realise is ridiculous, its unfathomable.
I guess my point is, I think that the trust between the staff was of benefit to LL, if guilty of course. She could even of been trying to micromanage or puppeteer the people around her?
JMO.

 

[Dotta]

But not as irreparable as a longed-for, innocent little baby having its life taken.

That is beyond doubt
But I reflected on another aspect of this terrible case.

 

[Blondiexoxo]

I’m beginning to wonder if the prosecution are going to offer a motive or any background info on LL. With a case like this you’d have thought they’d have looked into any significant events in her life around the time the murders started. I was expecting to hear from maybe a former boyfriend or something about her life or her personality. We have discussed many possible theories here but haven’t had any answers yet, was there a bad break up? Did she desperately want children but her relationships all ended?

I want to hear from a former partner about what she was like behind closed doors, was she jealous or possessive, did she talk about wanting children, was there ever a miscarriage or history of difficulty conceiving. Instead of diving straight in to the circumstances surrounding baby A’s death, I’d have thought we’d have gotten a bit more background about what 2014/2015 were like in LL’s life, was there a major event or history of depression?

We’re not hearing much about LL in general is what I’m getting at, did she have any struggles? We don’t know much about her atall, what was she like as a child, were any of her friends or previous partners interviewed to try and establish a bit more about her personality? Or did she literally live and breathe work? There’s only so much you can establish through text messages IMO what about people in her life who aren’t colleagues? Or were colleagues her only friends? Did she not have a life outside of work atall?

I know the prosecution don’t have to prove motive, but it would help to hear more about her life before and during these events IMO. Or did she live an unremarkable life, always happy and never had any problems with anything? We just don’t have anything about LL’s life or character. Unless the defence are planning witnesses who will tell us how she was an amazing person with no flaws….
All MOO

 

[Observant-ADHD-ENFP-BSc]

That is beyond doubt
But I reflected on another aspect of this terrible case.

I feel for everyone involved in this case, regardless of the outcome. It's just so incredible sad.
ETA: I reworded

 

[Observant-ADHD-ENFP-BSc]

I’m beginning to wonder if the prosecution are going to offer a motive or any background info on LL. With a case like this you’d have thought they’d have looked into any significant events in her life around the time the murders started. I was expecting to hear from maybe a former boyfriend or something about her life or her personality. We have discussed many possible theories here but haven’t had any answers yet, was there a bad break up? Did she desperately want children but her relationships all ended?

I want to hear from a former partner about what she was like behind closed doors, was she jealous or possessive, did she talk about wanting children, was there ever a miscarriage or history of difficulty conceiving. Instead of diving straight in to the circumstances surrounding baby A’s death, I’d have thought we’d have gotten a bit more background about what 2014/2015 were like in LL’s life, was there a major event or history of depression?

We’re not hearing much about LL in general is what I’m getting at, did she have any struggles? We don’t know much about her atall, what was she like as a child, were any of her friends or previous partners interviewed to try and establish a bit more about her personality? Or did she literally live and breathe work? There’s only so much you can establish through text messages IMO what about people in her life who aren’t colleagues? Or were colleagues her only friends? Did she not have a life outside of work atall?

I know the prosecution don’t have to prove motive, but it would help to hear more about her life before and during these events IMO. Or did she live an unremarkable life, always happy and never had any problems with anything? We just don’t have anything about LL’s life or character. Unless the defence are planning witnesses who will tell us how she was an amazing person with no flaws….
All MOO

I agree to some extent. It is beneficial to come to a logical conclusion, including character witnesses, from both sides.
But this is an extremely, complex trial, that has not shied away from acknowledging will take approximately six months. With that in mind, I feel we still have a lot more evidence to see.
JMO

 

[Eloise]

I don’t see how this is subjudice.

Basically - if the jury haven't been told it, then you shouldn't discuss it online/in writing (obviously nobody can stop you talking to your friends or workmates or family about anything you've seen/read, but they're presumably not on the jury...)

 

[LadyEdgeworth]

9:01am

The trial of Lucy Letby, who denies murdering seven babies at the Countess of Chester Hospital neonatal unit and attempting to murder 10 more, continues today (Thursday, December 1).
We will be bringing you updates throughout the day.

9:05am

Here is our most recent live coverage from the trial, from Tuesday, November 29: Countess nurse Lucy Letby: What has happened in trial so far
On Wednesday, November 30, the jury at Manchester Crown Court heard medical expert witnesses give evidence for Child F: Lucy Letby trial: Baby ‘received two bags of poisoned feed’

9:06am

The jury have been told that today, the evidence will begin in the case of Child G.
A reminder that none of the children can be identified in this case, due to reporting restrictions.

9:13am

Previously in the trial, during the prosecution opening, prosecutor Nicholas Johnson KC told the jury there are three attempted murder charges in the case of Child G.
The prosecution say all three murder attempts happened in the neonatal unit in September 2015.

Recap: Lucy Letby trial, Thursday, December 1

The trial of Lucy Letby, who denies murdering seven babies at the Countess of Chester Hospital neonatal unit and attempting to murder 10 more,…

www.chesterstandard.co.uk

 

[Marantz4250b]

Could the defence be holding back on questions about Baby F because they want to bring them up when they get to Baby L's insulin poisoning case, and if they ask them now the prosecution would be pre-warned of their strategy, and therefore better prepared for their questions about Baby L's case?

No. Each side has to disclose their evidence to the other. You can't introduce "surprise" evidence.

 

[LadyEdgeworth]

10:33am

The trial has now resumed, and the jury will be hearing the case of Child G, a baby girl.
Nicholas Johnson KC, for the prosecution, says intelligence analyst Kate Tyndall will first talk through the sequence of events, before a statement from the parents of Child G will be read out to the court.

10:38am

The court is first shown Lucy Letby's shift patterns for June 2015.
Mr Johnson says, for the indictment, the charges of murder and attempted murder for Childs A-F, Letby was on night shifts.
Letby was also on a night shift for September 6-7, the night Child G suffered a collapse. The prosecution say this was one of three murder attempts by Letby on Child G; the defence deny this.

10:41am

Child G was born on May 31, 2015, at Liverpool's Arrowe Park Hospital, at a gestational age of 23 weeks and six days. She weighed 535g - 1lb 2oz.
Previously, the court heard this baby was the most premature birth of all the babies in the trial.
She was in a poor condition at birth, requiring ventilation.

Recap: Lucy Letby trial, Thursday, December 1

The trial of Lucy Letby, who denies murdering seven babies at the Countess of Chester Hospital neonatal unit and attempting to murder 10 more,…

www.chesterstandard.co.uk

 

[LadyEdgeworth]

10:45am

She was cared for at Arrowe Park, a tertiary centre, until being transferred to the Countess of Chester Hospital on the night of August 13. At this stage she would have been a gestational age of 34 weeks plus 3 days.
Nursing notes for Child G on Friday, August 14, recorded by Caroline Bennion, note: 'Currently [Child G] is on CPAP Peep of 4 in 29-40% of oxygen...has been since 17/7/15 and has occasional desaturations. [Child G] is trialling off CPAP in ambient oxygen and manages 1 hour in 2 episodes daily. May be eligible to trial Optiflow.
'Fluids are all enteral feed.'
A further note: 'Mum intends to breast feed and is expressing well...first immunisations have been given on August 1.
'[Child G] has had metabolic bone disease but is not currently treated. Mum and dad have been shown around the unit and have been given contact numbers'.

10:48am

The court hears, from August 14 to September 6, Child G was treated at the Countess of Chester Hospital neonatal unit.
The next evidence presented to the jury will be from September 6 onwards.
At 2am on that day - when Child G was 99 days old - a feeding chart shows she was being fed with expressed breast milk, Gaviscon and a fortifier.

10:53am

The court is also shown a range of medications which were administered by Lucy Letby and another nurse, during that night, to Child G, before the handover at 7.30am.
For the day shift, the designated nurse for Child G was Vicky Blamire, who recorded hourly observations and was a co-signer for some of Child G's medication.
Consultant Dr Stephen Brearey records observations in an 11am clinical note.
It was noted that Child G's weight had increased, by this point, to 1.985kg (4lb 6oz).

Recap: Lucy Letby trial, Thursday, December 1

The trial of Lucy Letby, who denies murdering seven babies at the Countess of Chester Hospital neonatal unit and attempting to murder 10 more,…

www.chesterstandard.co.uk

 

[mart321]

I didn't realise at the time how old baby G was. 99 days old. I bet this baby had come on leaps and bounds since birth. Is this the oldest of the babies in the charges?

 

[LadyEdgeworth]

10:56am

Vicky Blamire's note at 3.37pm records 'all safety equipment present and correct', and Child G continued to receive regular feeds.
Further prescribed medication is administered to Child G throughout the day.
Her note at 6.44pm records, for Child G, 'Another bottle completed this evening. Bowels now open'.

11:00am

The handover takes place for the night shift team at 7.30pm.
A different nurse to Lucy Letby - who cannot be named due to reporting restrictions - was the designated nurse for Child G this night.
Letby was the designated nurse for one baby in room 1.
The other nurse was the designated nurse for Child G in room 2, and another baby in a room whose location is unconfirmed on the chart.
There were a total of seven babies in the neonatal unit that night, being looked after by a total of five nurses.

11:03am

Lucy Letby was the co-signer for medication administrations for Child G, along with the designated nurse.
An observation chart for August 6 shows Child G's observations are made every three hours, with a heart rate in the 'normal' range at that stage.

Recap: Lucy Letby trial, Thursday, December 1

The trial of Lucy Letby, who denies murdering seven babies at the Countess of Chester Hospital neonatal unit and attempting to murder 10 more,…

www.chesterstandard.co.uk

 

[musicaljoke]

No. Each side has to disclose their evidence to the other. You can't introduce "surprise" evidence.

Is that correct? My understanding is that the prosecution must present all the evidence to the defence, but that the defence does not present their evidence to the prosecution.

 

[LadyEdgeworth]

11:07am

Letby had messaged colleague Kate Bissell at about 8.30pm enquiring about expressed breast milk for the baby she was the designated nurse for that night. The matter is clarified in the text conversation.

11:10am

Further medication is administered to Child G at 1.46am, signed by the designated nurse and Alisa Simpson.
At 2am, the designated nurse records observations for Child G and a neonatal feeding chart records this is Child G's 100th day since birth.
She received 45mls of milk via the nasogastric tube, with 'ph4' aspirates recorded. Child G was noted to be 'asleep' at this stage.
The milk was expressed breast milk, plus fortifier and Gaviscon.

11:13am

Lucy Letby writes a note, written in retrospect at 8.57am, where care of Child G was transferred to her following an 'event'.
The note says "written in retrospect for care given from 2am to present. [Child G] had large projectile milky vomit at 2.15am. Continued to vomit++. 45mls of milk obtained from NG tube with air++. Abdoment noted to be distended and discoloured. Colour improved few minutes after aspirating tube, remained distended but soft. Reg[istrar] Ventress asked to review. To go nil by mouth with IV fluids. Dr called to theatre."

Recap: Lucy Letby trial, Thursday, December 1

The trial of Lucy Letby, who denies murdering seven babies at the Countess of Chester Hospital neonatal unit and attempting to murder 10 more,…

www.chesterstandard.co.uk

 

[LadyEdgeworth]

Is that correct? My understanding is that the prosecution must present all the evidence to the defence, but that the defence does not present their evidence to the prosecution.

Disclosure Manual: Chapter 15 - Defence Disclosure | The Crown Prosecution Service

www.cps.gov.uk

"The defence must provide the details of any witnesses, irrespective of the reason why they are calling them at trial. "

"There is no requirement for the defence to supply any statement from the witness to the investigator or the prosecutor before the interview. The investigator and the prosecutor are unlikely to know what evidence the witness may give"

Seems they must say who they are calling as a witness but they have no obligation to say what their witness will attest to. However, if they put forward evidence which "relies on a matter which should have been mentioned in the defence statement but was not" or "puts forward a defence not mentioned in or different from that in the defence statement" then they can certainly run into trouble, and alienate a jury.

 

[LadyEdgeworth]

11:15am

The designated nurse from the start of the shift records a note: 'nurse L Letby taken over care [of Child G] following vomit/apnoeic episode after 2am feed'.

11:16am

Dr Alison Ventress writes clinical notes, timed at 2.35am and written retrospectively at 4.40am.
They record: 'Called to r/v [Child G] urgently at 2.35am.
'Had very large projectile vomit (reaching chair next to cot + canopy). Abdo appeared discoloured purple and distended. [Child G] distressed and uncomfortable. Red in face and purple all over. [Oxygen] to 1L via nasal cannula...'

11:17am

Letby's note at 3am for Child G - 'bowels opened large green watery stool at 0300'.

Recap: Lucy Letby trial, Thursday, December 1

The trial of Lucy Letby, who denies murdering seven babies at the Countess of Chester Hospital neonatal unit and attempting to murder 10 more,…

www.chesterstandard.co.uk

 

[LadyEdgeworth]

11:19am

At 3.15am, Letby's note adds: 'Approx 0315 [Child G] had profound desaturation to 20%, marked colour loss with apnoea. Brady to 50s. Neopuffed in 100% oxygen, observations improved but [Child G] remained apnoeic. Drs arrived. Intermittenly breathing/apnoea.
'Decision made to intubate. Moved to nursery 1...'

11:25am

Dr Ventress also noted Child G was planned to cannulate, with plan to administer fluids, but this was delayed due to the need to deliver another baby in the delivery room.
Later, she noted: 'called out of theatre to say [Child G] had gone apnoeic and dusky. Dr called in...
'On arrival sats 50% in oxygen. Receiving IPPV from nurse. Heart rate ok.
'Pink and well perfused with mask CPAP....[Child G] then had another profound apnoea and heart rate down to 70, sats 40%.'
The doctor adds Child G was then intubated, and 'IV vitamin K given due to blood from trachea'.
Mr Johnson says this is another case where a baby is cleeding at the mouth.
Dr Stephen Brearey noted: 'Called in at 0330...large vomit and loose watery stool earlier followed by desat and brady. Intubated by Dr Ventress on my arrival. A small amount of blood visible on intubation. Blood samples taken and sent...'good gas post intubation'.
At 3.45am, Child G's parents were notified by the former designated nurse.

11:27am

The blood sample for Child G is taken at 3.59am.
Lucy Letby records observations, a fluid balance and an intensive care chart for Child G at 4am.
The observations have gone, the the court hears, from every three hours, to every one hour.

Recap: Lucy Letby trial, Thursday, December 1

The trial of Lucy Letby, who denies murdering seven babies at the Countess of Chester Hospital neonatal unit and attempting to murder 10 more,…

www.chesterstandard.co.uk