GUILTY UK - Nurse Lucy Letby, murder of babies, 7 Guilty of murder verdicts; 7 Guilty of attempted murder; 2 Not Guilty of attempted; 6 hung re attempted #31

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I don’t feel sorry for a criminal’s parents unless they give me reason to do so. Where the parents express horror and sorrow for their children’s crimes, I do feel bad for them. If they seek to deny their obvious guilt, to blame others or “the system” or to minimise the crimes, then no, I don’t. I have seen more than one murderer with indulgent parents who thought their offspring could do no wrong.
 
Wow. Interesting they couldn't agree so many of the attempted murder charges. I'm still not sure how I feel about it.
I'm not actually surprised. Attempted murder is more difficult to prove as it must be shown that she intended death to occur. Proving someone's intention is extremely difficult.
 
The BBC investigation also found:
  • The hospital's top manager demanded the doctors write an apology to Letby and told them to stop making allegations against her
  • Two consultants were ordered to attend mediation with Letby, even though they suspected she was killing babies

This REALLY boils my blood. I hope the doctors get formal apologies from the hospital / I hope the BMA looks into the case to see if other formal action can be taken.
 
Yes, the verdicts came in partial batches. First came on 8th August then 11th and then the final two on 16th and 17th.
Wow. I feel so bad. I was very vocal in how long it was taking the jury and I was seriously worried the entire trial would collapse / result in a hung jury.
Turns out they reached verdicts TEN DAYS ago.
My apologies to the jury :(
 
The BBC investigation also found:
  • The hospital's top manager demanded the doctors write an apology to Letby and told them to stop making allegations against her
  • Two consultants were ordered to attend mediation with Letby, even though they suspected she was killing babies
  • When she was finally moved, Letby was assigned to the risk and patient safety office, where she had access to sensitive documents from the neonatal unit and was in close proximity to senior managers whose job it was to investigate her
  • Deaths were not reported appropriately, which meant the high fatality rate could not be picked up by the wider NHS system, a manager who took over after the deaths has told the BBC
  • As well as the seven murder convictions, Letby was on duty for another six baby deaths at the hospital - and the police have widened their investigation
  • Two babies also died while Letby was working at Liverpool Women's Hospital

So what kind of action can be taken for all this? Can the families sue the NHS (no idea how it works)?
Its funny how many people (me included, before the trial began) thought she was being scapegoated but its almost the opposite; she was being protected when she shouldn't have been!
 
In what way Cuko? That it's the wrong verdict or that there's a whole lot more bad stuff to come out?
@MadeleineMaxwell I really don’t know. Just a strange and wholly unfamiliar feeling. I must need a holiday!

Edited to add: The information I’d most likely to see are the reports from the forensic psychiatrists engaged by prosecution and defence.
 
I'm not actually surprised. Attempted murder is more difficult to prove as it must be shown that she intended death to occur. Proving someone's intention is extremely difficult.
Yes, and if the babies have passed away and medical evidence of their post mortems finds no health reason, it’s easier to believe that there may have been a crime. The attempts, perhaps looking like “medical incidents”, are harder to see as attempted murders.
 
I don’t feel sorry for a criminal’s parents unless they give me reason to do so. Where the parents express horror and sorrow for their children’s crimes, I do feel bad for them. If they seek to deny their obvious guilt, to blame others or “the system” or to minimise the crimes, then no, I don’t. I have seen more than one murderer with indulgent parents who thought their offspring could do no wrong.
I’ve got to admit, I just read her mum cried to police saying “ I did it, it was me, arrest me instead” to try and protect her daughter. That broke my heart
 
I’ve got to admit, I just read her mum cried to police saying “ I did it, it was me, arrest me instead” to try and protect her daughter. That broke my heart
For my part, I find myself unmoved versus what the parents of the babies went through. Letby will be able to read books and watch television and receive visits from her mother and whatever else for many years.

It’s also absurd by the mother given of course she couldn’t have killed the babies on a neonatal unit, having no access to the same. I wouldn’t like to speculate on what she knew but I don’t have a huge amount of sympathy unless she tries to accept what Lucy did and that she must receive her due punishment.
 
I’ve got to admit, I just read her mum cried to police saying “ I did it, it was me, arrest me instead” to try and protect her daughter. That broke my heart
Honestly it’s really weird to me that someone would do this. Fair enough protest their innocence but saying “I did it”? Kind of makes you wonder whether the mum knew Lucy she had it in her to murder babies.
 
Just watched aghast during BBC News at One where it reveals, at one point, the consultants had to sign a "letter of apology" to Letby. This was before police were called, but the consultants were raising concerns.

Heads are going to roll...
 
For my part, I find myself unmoved versus what the parents of the babies went through. Letby will be able to read books and watch television and receive visits from her mother and whatever else for many years.

It’s also absurd by the mother given of course she couldn’t have killed the babies on a neonatal unit, having no access to the same. I wouldn’t like to speculate on what she knew but I don’t have a huge amount of sympathy unless she tries to accept what Lucy did and that she must receive her due punishment.

I'm so curious as to what their family relationship was like... they seem very devoted to her, but have they coddled and enabled her for her whole life? I wonder if we will hear any stories about her childhood and odd behaviour.

That the mum would do something so nonsensical.... WHY?! Did she already suspect and herself feel guilty for "creating a monster" subconsciously?
 
I’ve got to admit, I just read her mum cried to police saying “ I did it, it was me, arrest me instead” to try and protect her daughter. That broke my heart
I guess I just can't fathom wanting to throw yourself under the bus for your child when they're a serial killer of newborn babies. If any of my kids did that, I'm afraid while a sliver of parental love would remain, they'd definitely not have my support. I would not help them. I would do everything in my power to make sure they fulfilled all legal obligations and turned themselves in and served their time. And I would mourn whatever I did wrong for them to turn out that way, and the opportunities I'd missed to get them the help they needed.

Much more recently,

Letby refused to return to court to hear the later verdicts but at an earlier verdict hearing had bowed her head and sobbed while her mother, Susan, cried loudly and said: “You cannot be serious. This cannot be right.”

She needs to acknowledge that she's guilty and the harm done by her daughter to her victims before I'll feel sorry for her at all. I don't care if that means I'm mean or whatever, I just can't feel sympathy for anyone but the babies and their families.
 
Today is all about the parents and the verdict, but just from a few of the things that have come out. The hospital management has been horrifically negligent. I suspect the vast majority of those involved are long gone though and the burden will fall on people who had no input into decisions made at that time
 
I'm so curious as to what their family relationship was like... they seem very devoted to her, but have they coddled and enabled her for her whole life? I wonder if we will her any stories about her childhood and odd behaviour.

That the mum would do something so nonsensical.... WHY?! Did she already suspect and herself feel guilty for "creating a monster" subconsciously?
It’s very strange. I won’t speculate on Letby’s upbringing (although I am also curious) and I understand a parent supporting a child but at some point you have to say, I love you but I hate what you did. JMO.
 
Honestly it’s really weird to me that someone would do this. Fair enough protest their innocence but saying “I did it”? Kind of makes you wonder whether the mum knew Lucy she had it in her to murder babies.
It did take me back tbh, but I think it just showed the level of utter desperation the mum was feeling at the time: that she’d even take the blame for murdering numerous babies to protect her only child. It doesn’t take anything away from the parents of the babies, but I do feel for her mum. She’s innocent in all of this.
 
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