GUILTY UK - Olivia Pratt-Korbel, 9, shot dead, Liverpool, 22 Aug 2022 arrest

Legally Bland · Mar 29, 2023

15:02KEY EVENT

Jury note

Court has been reassembled as the jury have sent a note to the judge with a question.
Justice Yip says they have asked for statements or transcripts of the evidence from four people.
The jury are brought into court, and Justice Yip says: “In relation to the first person mentioned, Joseph Nee, you do not have any evidence from him. There is no statement or transcript from him, so that’s the answer to that.”
Justice Yip says they are also looking for the statements of or transcripts of the evidence of Nicholas McHale, Paul McCarthy and the witness who cannot be named for legal reasons.
JY: “In relation to the other three people, they are witnesses.
“The answer is no, you can’t have a copy of a statement or transcript. That’s not the way it works, as it were.
“If there is anything in the evidence you wish to be reminded of, you can send me a note and I will check by notes with counsel and assist you.
“We don’t provide written copies of statements or transcripts, as we would run the risk of giving you some of the evidence and not all of it. That’s simply not the way it works.
“If there is anything you want to be reminded of, you can send me a note.”
The jury are sent to resume their deliberations.

Thomas Cashman murder trial updates as case enters final stages

Thomas Cashman, 34, is accused of murdering Olivia Pratt-Korbel in her own home in Dovecot

www.liverpoolecho.co.uk

Dotta · Mar 29, 2023

Legally Bland said:
“In relation to the first person mentioned, Joseph Nee, you do not have any evidence from him. There is no statement or transcript from him, so that’s the answer to that.”
Justice Yip says they are also looking for the statements of or transcripts of the evidence of Nicholas McHale, Paul McCarthy and the witness who cannot be named for legal reasons.
JY: “In relation to the other three people, they are witnesses.
“The answer is no, you can’t have a copy of a statement or transcript. That’s not the way it works, as it were.
“If there is anything in the evidence you wish to be reminded of, you can send me a note and I will check by notes with counsel and assist you.
“We don’t provide written copies of statements or transcripts, as we would run the risk of giving you some of the evidence and not all of it. That’s simply not the way it works.
“If there is anything you want to be reminded of, you can send me a note.”
The jury are sent to resume their deliberations.

Thomas Cashman murder trial updates as case enters final stages

Thomas Cashman, 34, is accused of murdering Olivia Pratt-Korbel in her own home in Dovecot

www.liverpoolecho.co.uk

So it answers my previous question about JN - whether he testified about the attacker.

His silence speaks volumes IMO.

bobbymkii · Mar 29, 2023

From thelawpages.com:

Manchester Crown Court 1 05C10085522
thomas edward cashman
Details: For Trial - Resume - 10:23
- No Information To Display -
For Trial - Summing Up - 11:12
For Trial - Jury retire to consider verdict - 11:55
For Trial - Jury retire to consider verdict - 14:28
For Trial - Jury retire to consider verdict - 14:58
For Trial - Reporting Restrictions Lifted - 15:38
- No Information To Display

this might be an error by the page. If not, which possible reporting restrictions could have been lifted? Anonymous ex mistress witness's details?

bobbymkii · Mar 29, 2023

I mean, I don't want to sound too dismissive, having only been a member of this website for about an hour but...
Why is there even a debate about whether or not a 6ft tall 'chubby' male committed a murder that was carried out by a slim 5ft7 male?

bbsaz · Mar 29, 2023

Ive been with my husband 20yrs and couldnt tell you how tall he is. Same with all my friends. Height is completely unrealiable. We are talking about a difference of a few inches!! In the dark, with a gunman on the loose.

Also, we dont know if he is chubby or slim. One mans chubby is another mans slim. Plus, he had a tracksuit on. Not exactly reliable for ascertaining the true form underneath.

bobbymkii · Mar 29, 2023

bbsaz said:
Ive been with my husband 20yrs and couldnt tell you how tall he is. Same with all my friends. Height is completely unrealiable. We are talking about a difference of a few inches!! In the dark, with a gunman on the loose.

Also, we dont know if he is chubby or slim. One mans chubby is another mans slim. Plus, he had a tracksuit on. Not exactly reliable for ascertaining the true form underneath.

I looked back at the initial witness statements. Two said 5'7", one said 5'8". That's nearly half a foot difference, that is noticeable! I can't quite find the quote but I'm sure I remember at some point the unnamed witness talked about teasing Tommy about being chubby or tubby or something like that. It's a subjective assessment of course, but this is someone who knew him intimately and even the photos pulled from social media and published in the press. he's not exactly obese, obviously - but I wouldn't say "slim" especially the photo with the cars in the background.
Needless to say, there is significant reasonable doubt that Mr Cashman fits the physical description of the shooter as described by eyewitnesses!

Morse12121 · Mar 29, 2023

bbsaz said:
Ive been with my husband 20yrs and couldnt tell you how tall he is. Same with all my friends. Height is completely unrealiable. We are talking about a difference of a few inches!! In the dark, with a gunman on the loose.

Also, we dont know if he is chubby or slim. One mans chubby is another mans slim. Plus, he had a tracksuit on. Not exactly reliable for ascertaining the true form underneath.

The dispute isn’t a few inches! It’s half a foot, that’s either he’s tall or small. It’s completely wrong, and again it’s another thing that doesn’t fit Cashman doing it.

dm799 · Mar 29, 2023

Tricky one. Having followed the trial I think it's very possible to come to the conclusion that he very likely is guilty, but that it hasn't been proved beyond reasonable doubt.

The prosecution case wasn't the strongest and it seems like it's just all going to come down to whether or not the jury believe their witness. From reading the reporting it's difficult to know how the witness came across.

Morse12121 · Mar 29, 2023

It’s not whether he’s guilty or not. I think we all know the answer. It’s 100 per cent proving he is, and let’s be completely honest have they at all? Other than circumstantial evidence? I don’t think they realised how unreliable the so-called witness was going to be.

Morse12121 · Mar 29, 2023

dm799 said:
Tricky one. Having followed the trial I think it's very possible to come to the conclusion that he very likely is guilty, but that it hasn't been proved beyond reasonable doubt.

The prosecution case wasn't the strongest and it seems like it's just all going to come down to whether or not the jury believe their witness. From reading the reporting it's difficult to know how the witness came across.

Not good from what I read. Saying things like “I’m starting to enjoy this” and “let’s get to the good bits”…hardly sounds like the pillar of the community!

LouTennant · Mar 29, 2023

Morse12121 said:
Not good from what I read. Saying things like “I’m starting to enjoy this” and “let’s get to the good bits”…hardly sounds like the pillar of the community!

Even people with a possible neurotic or immature attitude can still be honest. The witness stated that TC said he been jumping the back gardens. When she gave her statement that was not public information. How then could she have made a plan to frame TC when he could have been absolutely anywhere else?

With no prior knowledge of the killers movements, what she stated directly tied in to what the police believe TC did after the murder.

Pretty damming IMO

KarenUK · Mar 30, 2023

Thomas Cashman murder trial updates as case enters final stages

Thomas Cashman, 34, is accused of murdering Olivia Pratt-Korbel in her own home in Dovecot

www.liverpoolecho.co.uk

Jury deliberations continuing

SpursGyal · Mar 30, 2023

I have just caught up on the trial details of this one, and while i don't doubt Cashman is guilty, I am concerned that the jury may find him NG.

bbsaz · Mar 30, 2023

SpursGyal said:
I have just caught up on the trial details of this one, and while i don't doubt Cashman is guilty, I am concerned that the jury may find him NG.

Agreed 100%
I just hope the jury see sense

My concern is NG, or hung jury/retrial

IMO/JMO

bbsaz · Mar 30, 2023

Morse12121 said:
Not good from what I read. Saying things like “I’m starting to enjoy this” and “let’s get to the good bits”…hardly sounds like the pillar of the community!

No, agreed. But she has done the right thing and come forward with what she knows. At huge cost to her. Whilst she is supposedly anonymous, theyve named her as Paul Russells girlfriend and I think they gave her road name earlier too. I hardly think anyone would risk their safety, having to relocate/potential witness protection just to get back at an ex friend with benefits (IMO)

Legally Bland · Mar 30, 2023

14:35JONATHAN HUMPHRIES

All parties called into court

The court is reconvening now.
Olivia’s family have just entered the public gallery.
Her mum Cheryl Korbel is wearing a pink cardigan, with several other members of the family also sporting the same colour.

Thomas Cashman murder trial updates as case enters final stages

Thomas Cashman, 34, is accused of murdering Olivia Pratt-Korbel in her own home in Dovecot

www.liverpoolecho.co.uk

Legally Bland · Mar 30, 2023

14:44JONATHAN HUMPHRIES

Families in court

Cheryl Korbel is also clutching a teddy bear.
Cashman’s family have now also taken their seats in court, in a separate public gallery from the Korbel family.

Thomas Cashman murder trial updates as case enters final stages

Thomas Cashman, 34, is accused of murdering Olivia Pratt-Korbel in her own home in Dovecot

www.liverpoolecho.co.uk

Legally Bland · Mar 30, 2023

14:46KEY EVENT

VERDICTS REACHED

Justice Yip enters, and Cashman is brought into the dock.
JY “I understand we have verdicts.
“I recognise for everyone present in court this is going to be a difficult and emotional time.”

Thomas Cashman murder trial updates as case enters final stages

Thomas Cashman, 34, is accused of murdering Olivia Pratt-Korbel in her own home in Dovecot

www.liverpoolecho.co.uk

Legally Bland · Mar 30, 2023

Guilty

https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1641437032282193921

Legally Bland · Mar 30, 2023

My copy and paste is playing up. Unanimous guilty verdicts on all counts according the LE.

GUILTY UK - Olivia Pratt-Korbel, 9, shot dead, Liverpool, 22 Aug 2022 *arrest*

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All parties called into court​

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Families in court​

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VERDICTS REACHED​

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GUILTY UK - Olivia Pratt-Korbel, 9, shot dead, Liverpool, 22 Aug 2022 arrest

Jury note

All parties called into court

Families in court

VERDICTS REACHED