GUILTY UK - Olivia Pratt-Korbel, 9, shot dead, Liverpool, 22 Aug 2022 *arrest*

[Legal]

I've just reread the sentencing remarks for Wayne Couzens. I totally forgot that he came up with the ridiculous story of the Balkan gangsters who forced him to abduct women! What a hideous specimen he was. Anyway, my takeaway from the remarks was this from paragraph 19:

In my judgment, the misuse of a police officer’s role such as occurred in this case in order to kidnap, rape and murder a lone victim is of equal seriousness as a murder carried out for the purpose of advancing a political, religious, racial or ideological cause. All of these situations attack different aspects of the fundamental underpinnings of our democratic way of life. It is this vital factor which in my view makes the seriousness of this case exceptionally high.

IMO this could be used to argue a whole life tariff for Cashman - the drug-dealing, gangster lifestyle attacking the fundamental underpinnings of society.

https://www.judiciary.uk/wp-content/uploads/2021/09/Wayne-Couzens-Sentencing-Remarks.pdf

 

[Rusty Braincells]

I've just reread the sentencing remarks for Wayne Couzens. I totally forgot that he came up with the ridiculous story of the Balkan gangsters who forced him to abduct women! What a hideous specimen he was. Anyway, my takeaway from the remarks was this from paragraph 19:

In my judgment, the misuse of a police officer’s role such as occurred in this case in order to kidnap, rape and murder a lone victim is of equal seriousness as a murder carried out for the purpose of advancing a political, religious, racial or ideological cause. All of these situations attack different aspects of the fundamental underpinnings of our democratic way of life. It is this vital factor which in my view makes the seriousness of this case exceptionally high.

IMO this could be used to argue a whole life tariff for Cashman - the drug-dealing, gangster lifestyle attacking the fundamental underpinnings of society.

https://www.judiciary.uk/wp-content/uploads/2021/09/Wayne-Couzens-Sentencing-Remarks.pdf

I completely agree, on principle this would send a hugely strong message. I don’t think we are there in terms of sentencing, unfortunately, but the sentence is certainly available (organised crime aspect, very premeditated, murder for hire, use of gun, child victim, creating terror in victim’s own home) and would create a very interesting (and IMO) welcome precedent if used.

 

[Dotta]

creating terror in victim’s own home) and would create a very interesting (and IMO) welcome precedent if used.

Creating terror in neighbourhood/town/city

JMO

 

[Alyce]

Professor John Cooper, KC, defending Cashman, said there were others who wanted Nee dead.

Mr Cooper applied for sections of Nee’s statement to be admitted, without Nee being called as a witness.

Mr Cooper’s application suggested there were alternative suspects for Oliva’s killing.........

Justice Yip ruled that those names had been thoroughly checked out and their alibis held up to scrutiny.

Lee Hickman, who was at one stage arrested on suspicion of Olivia’s murder, provided an alibi which was corroborated by CCTV and phone evidence.

Paul Hickman and Roy Hickman were in prison at the time of the murder.

Anthony Hickman was revealed by CCTV footage and phone evidence to have been in a pub at the time of the shooting.


Justice Yip noted: The issue for the jury is whether the defendant was the shooter.
Evidence that others might have been involved in some other way does not assist his defence.”

Nee himself told police he did not know who shot him. He did mention his “little argument” with Lee Hickman and spoke of others he had fallen out with, at one stage saying “it could have been anyone”

Joseph Nee, the 'Hickmans feud' and a notorious life of crime

Joseph Nee was known as a "rat" who "generally made enemies"

www.liverpoolecho.co.uk

 

[Penny68]

Definitely Nee was too scared to say it was Cashman that chased and shot him.

 

[Dotta]

Definitely Nee was too scared to say it was Cashman that chased and shot him.

It took a woman to sink him hehe
Although R also admitted to helping TC

JMO

 

[Penny68]

Pleasing to know Cashman will be shaking in his boots now while awaiting the sentence he will get.

Also knowing there is a £250,000 bounty on his head to kill/silence him from telling all he knows about the gang leaders. ''He knows everything about everyone in those circles.''

Olivia Pratt-Korbel killer has £250,000 bounty on head, claim insiders

Thomas Cashman has arrived at Manchester Crown Court for sentencing - and is facing a lifetime behind bars.

www.express.co.uk

 

[Legally Bland]

Liverpool Echo News
​

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Cheryl Korbel clutched a pink teddy and blue bear as she arrived at court to watch Thomas Cashman be sentenced for murder

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www.facebook.com

 

[Alyce]

Just seen that TC won’t be in Court……

he really should not have a choice


here's the link


Cashman's barrister has just come into the courtroom and said that Cashman won't be appearing in the dock.



www.bbc.co.uk

 

[Alyce]

The whole courtroom is assembled.

Eight out of the 12 jurors have come back to court for the hearing - an unusual move.

All barristers are now present. The judge Mrs Justice Yip has just arrived.

Thomas Cashman is not in the dock. The hearing will go ahead without him. His family are also absent.



www.bbc.co.uk

 

[Alyce]

Thomas Cashman's barrister John Cooper KC says that Cashman is refusing to come to court because he heard members of the Crown Prosecution Service singing We Are The Champions after he was convicted on Thursday.

Cashman told his defence team he isn't coming because he thinks it's "turning into a circus".


www.bbc.co.uk

 

[Penny68]

It should be a law that anyone to be sentenced should be in court. How awful the person is allowed to have a say whether to appear or not, no matter the reason.

 

[Sarahlou]

It really is beyond time they changed the rules and forced them to face sentencing in court.

 

[Legal]

Just saying on sky news cashman claimed the cps were singing "we are the champions" when he was convicted. He thinks the trial is turning into a circus. Big baby.

He should definitely be dragged up to hear the judge's remarks and victim impact statements.

 

[Bluebear15]

Cashman is a coward imo. He should be physically forced to be there to see the devastation that he has caused. I expect he's still sobbing in the cells!!

 

[Legal]

He's no longer the big hard gangster. Couldn't handle the CPS laughing at him. Wait till his fellow prisoners start taking the piss about his small ***** !!!

 

[Sweeper2000]

This caught my eye...
(from the link above)

"She added that she wanted to appeal to Liverpool's "criminal fraternity" for information, as Olivia's death was "an absolute tragedy and crosses every single boundary".

- The word "fraternity"
as a positive one - is out of place in this horrible context
(granted, Im a foreigner and Eng is not my native language, but...
this sounds jarring),

- "crosses boundaries"
It sounds as if there is an unspoken agreement between LE and the gangsters.
Don't touch civilians.

Well, in my opinion, there can't be any agreements with the Mob.
It never succeeds.

Quite the contrary -
it emboldens!

MOO!!!

RIP sweet little Angel

Condolences to family.

You would be very surprised Dotta. There is normally some sort of status quo. Generally organised criminals don’t hurt innocent people if they do Like in this case they are without friends. tbh in this Case it’s either the police get the killer, or the fraternity get him. The former involves a court in law, the latter involves a court with illegal guns. This kind of thing happens the world over examples being post soviet “honourable thieves”, the police in the US siding with el chapo and the gulf cartel, Generally the rule is any advantage you are given will be taken away if you cross too many lines. Even the police aren’t too fussed if some granny robbing filth gets taken out. The police often go with the least worst option like el chapo who as part of his business plan would pract “damage limitation“ ie don’t sell fentanyl, don’t hurt innocents, don’t sell damagi drugs.. that’s a world of intrigue and power plays.

 

[Dotta]

You would be very surprised Dotta. There is normally some sort of status quo. Generally organised criminals don’t hurt innocent people if they do Like in this case they are without friends. tbh in this Case it’s either the police get the killer, or the fraternity get him. The former involves a court in law, the latter involves a court with illegal guns. This kind of thing happens the world over examples being post soviet “honourable thieves”, the police in the US siding with el chapo and the gulf cartel, Generally the rule is any advantage you are given will be taken away if you cross too many lines. Even the police aren’t too fussed if some granny robbing filth gets taken out. The police often go with the least worst option like el chapo who as part of his business plan would pract “damage limitation“ ie don’t sell fentanyl, don’t hurt innocents, don’t sell damagi drugs.. that’s a world of intrigue and power plays.

This was my post from nearly a year ago.
Time flies!
Nice to see you on this thread

 

[Alyce]

Thomas Cashman's barrister, John Cooper KC, is now speaking - Cashman himself has refused to appear in the dock.

Cooper says the court cannot be sure on the evidence that there was an intention to kill Olivia.

Mrs Justice Yip interrupts him to say she's sure Cashman intended to kill Joseph Nee, the intended target on the night Olivia was killed.

www.bbc.co.uk




What an awful excuse to produce in his mitigation speech. Well done to the Judge for her interruption.

 

[Dotta]

Mrs Justice Yip interrupts him to say she's sure Cashman intended to kill Joseph Nee, the intended target on the night Olivia was killed.

www.bbc.co.uk




What an awful excuse to produce in his mitigation speech. Well done to the Judge for her interruption.

How embarrassing for a KC barrister to be inerrupted by a Judge