If he died the night he went missing I'm doubtful he'd be in a suitable state for family identification. I suspect it will probably be dental records - Which again - Harder to get ahold of on a bank holiday with most dental practises shut.
Found Deceased UK - Richard Okorogheye, 19, Oxford Student, Ladbroke Grove, West London, 24 Mar 2021
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If he died the night he went missing I'm doubtful he'd be in a suitable state for family identification. I suspect it will probably be dental records - Which again - Harder to get ahold of on a bank holiday with most dental practises shut.
ApparentlyInDenial
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I really don't think there's a need for in-person identification very much today. When a major missing person investigation is launched one of the first things detectives do is take DNA and fingerprints of the missing, so they can be identified later. They literally lift fingerprints from personal items, and take hair out of combs and the such! Also there will be medical and dental records that will be usable for identification.
The relative identification process isn't always reliable, or desirable. I don't know what's going on with this.
sleuthheywood7
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Yep I thought that - it just seemed from the MSM articles and reports from friends of the family that his mother was going to identify his body today? Would this be a personal choice? JMO
Has the time of the discovery been released?
Forensic teams might have been called to check around the perimeter (to see if there was any evidence of where and how he entered the water, presumably, not sure how far you could get with when). And if the body was left in the water until there was a forensically checked clear path to move it along, then the sequence and timing of events might not be that clear to outsiders. JMO
If a body had been in the water for the whole 2 weeks, then it is likely to be in a very poor condition. So perhaps (JMO, and with no particular expertise) initial assessment that linked this to the search for RO would perhaps be height, frame and sex, race, hair and clothing and other personal effects?
Formal identification would be either by dental records unless the person they were matching to had no fillings and had never had a dental X-ray (inadequate reference point) or by DNA to reference sample retrieved from items at home or, if none, then matched to parent/s (or in this case maybe his own medical records as it's possible he has been karotyped or they might just have bloods retained in hospital lab). Fingerprints not much use for bodies that have been in water for a long time, even if there were a reference set, as the flesh macerates,
Forensic teams might have been called to check around the perimeter (to see if there was any evidence of where and how he entered the water, presumably, not sure how far you could get with when). And if the body was left in the water until there was a forensically checked clear path to move it along, then the sequence and timing of events might not be that clear to outsiders. JMO
If a body had been in the water for the whole 2 weeks, then it is likely to be in a very poor condition. So perhaps (JMO, and with no particular expertise) initial assessment that linked this to the search for RO would perhaps be height, frame and sex, race, hair and clothing and other personal effects?
Formal identification would be either by dental records unless the person they were matching to had no fillings and had never had a dental X-ray (inadequate reference point) or by DNA to reference sample retrieved from items at home or, if none, then matched to parent/s (or in this case maybe his own medical records as it's possible he has been karotyped or they might just have bloods retained in hospital lab). Fingerprints not much use for bodies that have been in water for a long time, even if there were a reference set, as the flesh macerates,
ApparentlyInDenial
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Sensitive topic I know, but it feels like we're not seeing the whole picture. Dog wagging the tail. JMO.
This was an interesting read for anyone interested in the guidelines on autopsies for bodies recovered in water: https://www.rcpath.org/uploads/asse...e-Autopsy-for-bodies-recovered-from-water.pdf
CocoChanel
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Gentle reminder:
While many members may have experienced similar circumstances that may have played into this missing person case, we need to be mindful about keeping the discussion on the missing person. When a post becomes more about you than about the missing person, that is the key point that it is determined to be off topic. What can happen is that other members, in their empathy, comment on the personal experience, and that can veer the thread off topic. If you would like to give support to other members, please do so in PMs OR perhaps discuss in the basement threads, where there is an active thread about depression.
THANK YOU for being sensitive to the missing persons and victims these threads are about.
While many members may have experienced similar circumstances that may have played into this missing person case, we need to be mindful about keeping the discussion on the missing person. When a post becomes more about you than about the missing person, that is the key point that it is determined to be off topic. What can happen is that other members, in their empathy, comment on the personal experience, and that can veer the thread off topic. If you would like to give support to other members, please do so in PMs OR perhaps discuss in the basement threads, where there is an active thread about depression.
THANK YOU for being sensitive to the missing persons and victims these threads are about.
Snookysnooky
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From my understanding in person identification is very rarely used nowadays as it can be so unreliable.
Pathologists don't generally have a 9-5 job. I know one and they work nights abbd weekends and are often on call if not required to be in the labs directly.
Obviously this maybe different in different areas or within different specialisms so jmo (with some insight iyswim)
Pathologists don't generally have a 9-5 job. I know one and they work nights abbd weekends and are often on call if not required to be in the labs directly.
Obviously this maybe different in different areas or within different specialisms so jmo (with some insight iyswim)
I posted this days ago, I have become particularly interested in Richards safe return after remembering someone telling me they had been dogging in Epping Forest (which is apparently a very active spot for dogging, much to the dismay of the Met.) They had been scared away essentially by a few dodgy characters and weirdos hanging around in the woods flashing etc at that time /perhaps waiting for a consenting(?) dogger?
Having searched for related websites there really does appear to be a very active and large community “participating”. Many disturbingly misogynyistic forum posts appear upon a Google search. In fact on one forum I found a group of individuals were discussing how lockdown has heightened their extreme sexual fantasies to a point they now feel out of control. Extremely disturbing stuff.
Directions to many of the car parks in the first were listed as spots but one that stood out was,
“The large Wood Yard, close to the Wake Arms roundabout”
As in a timber yard or a building/construction site/yard? Isn’t this close to where Richard was spotted/sighted?
Having searched for related websites there really does appear to be a very active and large community “participating”. Many disturbingly misogynyistic forum posts appear upon a Google search. In fact on one forum I found a group of individuals were discussing how lockdown has heightened their extreme sexual fantasies to a point they now feel out of control. Extremely disturbing stuff.
Directions to many of the car parks in the first were listed as spots but one that stood out was,
“The large Wood Yard, close to the Wake Arms roundabout”
As in a timber yard or a building/construction site/yard? Isn’t this close to where Richard was spotted/sighted?
Distant Observer
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I photographed police horses coming up Tuttlebee Lane having presumably crossed from Whitehall Plain on the evening of March 31st. They gave a speeding motorcyclist a heck of a fright on the Epping New Road when he realised they were LE. 70mph to 30mph in a couple of seconds. We could do with more police horses patrolling the streets!
ApparentlyInDenial
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Interesting - that's quite a way south from where RO was found. I'm trying to figure out what strategy the SAR/police used in their search.
ApparentlyInDenial
Hope it's ok my asking you what you mean by your comment above?
If we are allowed to discuss of course
TIA
sleuthheywood7
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I looked into this after your previous post and did see lots of mentions of car parks in Epping forest being popular locations for that sort of thing.
Distant Observer
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I think initially they were trying to cover a wide area to see if perhaps there were some signs of him. Tuttlebee Lane is also the boundary between Essex and Greater London so it has significance for both Essex Police and the Met.
Distant Observer
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The official Epping Forest car parks do get regular police checks at night so I wouldn't recommend them for nocturnal activity. Some forest car parks such as the one for Knighton Woods on Knighton Lane in Buckhurst Hill are now locked promptly at dusk because they attracted drug dealing and other naughtiness. Epping Forest does cover a very large area so there are secluded spots if you know where to look. I can't see the woodyard next to the Wake Arms as mentioned above being at all suitable as it is right next to the main road.
The problem I have with the dogging gone wrong theory is he lives in Central London and doesn't own a vehicle it appears. Far closer spots he could go to which wouldn't cost him £50 to travel to. Him turning his phone off also makes no sense in that context - It's sex - Not Serious Organised Crime. It'd make far more sense for him to answer his mums call and give some rubbish excuse than to ignore her call and then turn his phone off which is going to arouse even more questioning.
It's the same with drugs, no one who lives in Central London is getting Ubers to Loughton for a bit of weed. The fact he's vulnerable and been shielding him makes it unlikely he's become some sudden drug dealer - How would he have met them?
It's the same with drugs, no one who lives in Central London is getting Ubers to Loughton for a bit of weed. The fact he's vulnerable and been shielding him makes it unlikely he's become some sudden drug dealer - How would he have met them?
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sleuthheywood7
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I guess if he had arranged to meet a particular person that didn't necessarily live in London? I agree though there are much closer locations to Ladbroke Grove where similar activity could occur. In terms of the phone - the cctv of him leaving the cab by Epping Forest did show him with a phone that appeared to be illuminated/on - just seemingly not his normal phone/sim. JMO
I mean he's got an empty flat until the morning with his mum's shift, if he's meeting a paticular person for sex wouldn't it make sense to invite them to the flat? Providing they leave that night his mum is unlikely to find out. I guess you could hypothesise they live North of the M25 and going to Central would be inconvenient so they meet in the middle but he's clearly quite attached to this person if he's willing to spend the time and money to trek out there at that time of night when there are probably hundreds of escorts operating within a few miles of his home he could arrange for as much money as his Uber there and back if all he was desiring was sex.
It is not uncommon for young people to not own a vehicle (especially only the ones in London, only those with money have cars in central London) to meet for sex with somebody who has a car. I know plenty of people, students especially who have found themselves in dangerous situations having agreed to meet for sex on a whim/impulse on Tinder/Grindr (to the point the stories are so close to home I wouldn’t use such apps anymore). I have had friends who have ended up in situations that felt safe but suddenly turned more sinister. The impulse for sex is enough imo is enough for somebody to travel that far at that time of night to a secluded location away from the possible shame people feel at a young age living at home with parents and trying to meet romantic interests.
another thought I had was that the second phone Richard had been alleged to have been carrying belonged to whoever he was meeting, perhaps the phone was forgotten at a previous meeting and this was done to purposely lure him to such an obscure and secluded location. But I would go to such lengths for a romantic interest, people’s phones are a lifeline these days and if offered the warmth of a lift home I can see this all seeming very casual
I agree with you wholly on the drugs front though. I don’t think this was drugs related.
sleuthheywood7
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All good points - I think its unlikely too. I guess the only reason why he wouldn't want to meet someone in his flat could be to do with other people in the building noticing? MSM has suggested he had friends in his flat complex. JMO
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