GUILTY UK - Sarah Everard, 33, London, Clapham Common area, 3 Mar 2021 *Awaiting Sentencing*, #15

Discussion in 'Trials' started by tesni, Mar 5, 2021.

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  1. johnlair

    johnlair Active Member

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    The times stated that when the Car was caught on Dashcam with both doors open it was on the pavement could he have positioned it in such a way that walking along the pavement you could not have got past and been forced to walk around on the road he could have then if he had the front seat down quickly subdued her maybe using a taser and bunged her in the back seat..
     
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  2. Marantz4250b

    Marantz4250b Well-Known Member

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    UK police are absolutely not allowed to take tasers, or firearms, home with them. Tazers are subject to control as a Prohibited Weapon under section.5 of the Firearms Act 1968. They cannot be owned or possessed without authority from the Home Secretary. Private individuals never get such permission. The police are allowed to possess them but only as part of their official duties.

    I very much doubt that he used a taser or similar. If there were evidence that he did then I think he would also have been charged with an offence under S.5(1)(b) of the Act, any weapon of whatever description designed or adapted for the discharge of any noxious liquid, gas or other thing; but I'm not aware that he was.
     
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  3. Marantz4250b

    Marantz4250b Well-Known Member

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    That was comprehensively dismissed at the time he entered his guilty plea; it was stated very clearly that he did not know know her, had never met her and had absolutely no knowledge of her existence until he abducted her. It was completely random.
     
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  4. Newthoughts

    Newthoughts Well-Known Member

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    He was a serving police officer. He would have had a completely legitimate warrant card to prove it.

    It was the middle of lockdown when police officers were questioning people they wouldn't normally be questioning. If he'd been on duty he could have legitimately questioned her about why she was out, where she'd been and where she was going because people were being fined for breaking lockdown. She would have no reason to know he wasn't on duty. She was behaving legally

    She was a law abiding citizen who'd probably never had contact with the police before. So if he asked her to sit in his car whilst he checked her story I imagine she'd have done so. I would have done.

    Not only have the CPS said there was no link - I can't see how any link would have occurred. Different worlds, different life stages.
     
  5. Marantz4250b

    Marantz4250b Well-Known Member

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    There is nothing which has been said which supports that though. If he used his police credentials to lure her they may have been a long way from anywhere before she knew anything was "off" with the guy.
     
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  6. MsBetsy

    MsBetsy Well-Known Member

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    Police have stated that Couzens did not know Sarah and believe he was "trawling for a victim" when he spotted her on the A205 South Circular. They suspect he showed her his warrant card to give her the false impression she could trust him.

    If they had known each other, I think they would have uncovered evidence from the phone and computer data and found a connection.

    IMO
     
    Last edited: Jul 14, 2021
  7. Marantz4250b

    Marantz4250b Well-Known Member

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    You are correct. The Firearms Act in it's interpretation section (S.57) defines anything prohibited under Section.5 as a firearm in law regardless of what it is. Hence, a taser is a firearm in law.
     
  8. CptShadow

    CptShadow Active Member

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    It does keep coming back to the central conundrum: at what point would she have realised something was 'off'?

    Yes, she may have got into the car willingly while he checked out her story. I think many of us may have done that, if instructed.

    If he had then said, 'ok I'm taking you to a police station for further questioning' I suspect alarm bells would have rung. That would have seemed excessive for a fairly minor lockdown breach.

    If had said, 'I'll drop you off at your flat', that may be more understandable. But what isn't understandable is why nothing happened (as far as we know) at the point at which he clearly wasn't taking her to the flat. At that point, she could have fought back. Of course, for all we know, she did - and was subdued at that moment.

    He either had to subdue her as soon as she was in the car, or very quickly into the journey - because even if she got in willingly, and even if she was comfortable at first, she must have realised something odd was happening fairly quickly.

    The tazer situation does seem unlikely, and we'd possibly have heard about this if such an event had been uncovered. But is it remotely possible that he had access to an *unauthorised* tazer, and that he used that? If her body was so badly damaged that evidence of tazering couldn't be ascertained, and if he hasn't admitted to it, and if it wasn't caught on camera, and if he successfully disposed of the evidence - then presumably they couldn't charge him for it.

    But that doesn't mean it didn't happen. And in some ways, it seems less unlikely than "she got into the car willingly and remained compliant all the way to Kent." JMO.
     
  9. Marantz4250b

    Marantz4250b Well-Known Member

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    Sorry, no they don't. It's none of anyone else's business and the CPS are not required to prove a negative to keep the armchair sleuths content. If there were the slightest chance that they knew each other there is no way that the CPS would have made the very unequivocal statements that have. In any event, it would probably have made the case easier for the prosecution if they were seeing each other or knew one another in some capacity.

    I don't think there is any debate that they did not know each other at all.
     
  10. Italia

    Italia Active Member

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    He prob just got out showed card, talked about Covid/ danger in area , said pls sit in car whilst I take details / fill a form and that was that
     
  11. Italia

    Italia Active Member

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    double post
     
  12. Dotta

    Dotta Well-Known Member

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    Of course! She must have been incapacitated early on. I think it happened as soon as she entered the car. Any woman would fight like crazy if a madman was driving her into the night God knows where! Lunging at him even if it might cause an accident. It is my opinion. Was it a taser or sth else? We will never know.
     
  13. Marantz4250b

    Marantz4250b Well-Known Member

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    But he may have said I'm part of a surveillance team and someone is following you, please get in or some variation thereof? We simply do not know. What would most women do when spun that line and shown a Warrant Card?
     
  14. Dotta

    Dotta Well-Known Member

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    I would never get into the car. But thats me - always a rebel :)
     
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  15. Sherlockhames

    Sherlockhames Well-Known Member

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    Also - ballsy of him to show her his warrant card unless he always planned to kill her.

    Had he planned to kidnap and rape but always thought he would let her go would he seriously have been so dim as to show her a warrant card? When reporting her ordeal the first thing she would say would be that she was attacked by someone who was/posing as a police offer.

    My instinct is still possibly his night time activities were a compartmentalised part of his life. So he wouldn’t take the risk of identifying himself to her.

    Unless he really is that arrogant/stupid as to think as a police officer he could have done what he was planning to do but thought he could get away with it.

    So either he did show his card, in which case perhaps he did always plan to kill her (and therefore it is in the interests of the police to at least float that possibility to maximise his sentence given how abhorrent that forward planning really was) or he didn’t show her anything and just overpowered her some other way, very quickly so that once she was in the car she was not in a position to escape.

    But they will only know that if he talks. But perhaps he can’t/won’t because that means admitting all of his actions to himself (if he was a true psychopath I don’t think he would have pleaded guilty - he would be revelling in the continued power he still has over the narrative and therefore would want to be in court).
     
  16. Shewasjustwalkinghome

    Shewasjustwalkinghome New Member

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    Is the make, model and colour similar to a generic police car?
    I’ve read similar. Sarah was a friend of mine, and my last whatsapp to her on 7th March is still undelivered
     
  17. CptShadow

    CptShadow Active Member

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    I suppose there's an outside chance that the CCTV shows more than they've said. It all depends on how clear it is. If the could see two figures in the fist image, and the second image showed the Astra with both front doors open - what else did it show? Can we see one or either of them in the car - or an arm or a leg sticking out of the car - etc? I guess they may have specified this already... but perhaps not.
     
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  18. CptShadow

    CptShadow Active Member

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    I'm so very sorry for your loss. May she rest in peace. <3
     
  19. proclee

    proclee Well-Known Member

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    I’m not sure why tasers continuously get brought up, as mentioned before any officer who carries one during their shift has to return it when they clock off.. and tbh it’d be quicker for him to simply punch her (and knock her unconscious) than to attempt to taser her when the affect of a taser lasts for less than a minute. I do also recall an image which someone had managed to find from a traffic camera which was disputed on here with people seeing different things but personally the way I viewed it was that the person in the passenger seat appeared to be slumped against the window.
    Also I live in south east London and was regularly in central London for work during all lockdowns and the police were not stopping you (especially if you were alone) to ask where you had been/what you were doing, I do believe though that he stopped her and showed his badge claiming his car had broken down and he’d lost battery on his phone and asking her whether he could use his phone to call his wife or something along those lines, Sarah looks in photos to be kind and trusting and if someone is showing you their badge and asking for help I’m inclined to think she’d agree. I’m not entirely sure how he would then go from that to getting her in the car but up until that point I feel like thats a scenario I could imagine.
    JMO of course
     
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  20. Dotta

    Dotta Well-Known Member

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    Please, accept my sincerest condolences. We are all here for Sarah and Justice for her. Hugs from Poland.
     
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