UK UK - Sarah Everard, 33, London - Clapham Common area, 3 March 2021 *Arrests* #6

[Creamcheese]

Yes huge presence and resource, along with temp operation rooms - surely this wouldn’t be for remains from one individual? Or is this standard?

 

[Factuality]

The Sun quoted a police source as saying: 'The working hypothesis is that the suspect saw Sarah on the street for the first time and kidnapped her'. BBM.

'He couldn't do anything like this': Mother-in-law of Sarah Everard murder suspect speaks out | Daily Mail Online

I do not believe they knew each other, I think this was a random opportunistic attack, so very sad, makes my blood boil. MOO,

 

[yardyyardy]

Other than the bus dashcam footage of the hired vehicle that tied back to him, what evidence do they have? Do they actually have him on camera putting her in that rental car?

snipped.

I guess that’s what we’re all here to discuss and speculate.

We won’t know what the evidence is really until trial (if and when). I’m not from or currently living in the UK but I did live there for a bit and happy to be corrected, but I’m of the impression that the evidence gets tested in court so the cards will be kept close to the chest until then.

 

[Angleterre]

I'm sure the evidence is very strong, but however strong, it does tend to undermine the legal process. It just surprises me that no regard was paid to that by the chief of police.

Totally agree
Irrespective of what he is alleged to have done abs how heinous and irrespective of what high level of evidence they have in their possession, we have an adversarial justice system where it’s innocent until proven guilty and it should not matter that it is a police officer. I understand that because it’s a Police officer and that their primary purpose is the protection of life , and this goes against everything that we , as the British public, believe in and expect from our Police officers , and accepting that there’s a need to reassure the community and to protect the hard work that the majority of police officers do , day in and day out, so she doesn’t want them to be prejudiced against negatively , we have to ask ourselves- if that had been a Schoolteacher, a Fireman, a Prison officer, a government official, a labourer, a banker etc ... you get my point- would she have done the same and the answer is categorically not , no way would she have done so. Therefore, putting behind the fact that he’s a piece of s%#t who deserves nothing IF he’s guilty of these crimes against SE and potentially more people, he should still be treated the same as any other prisoner who has been arrested on suspicion. I personally don’t care what happens to this man, if we can call him such , if he has done it, which from what I know, he probably has, but I do care that we maintain our high standards of the application of British justice and this is not adhering to those standards.

 

[Joolz1975]

I think another interesting point is that despite the discovery of the remains yesterday, there’s still not been any charges announced against WC.

Could this end up being another case where they have to pin him for something like the indecent exposure to allow them to gather evidence for the murder

Being a PO and the amount of time he’s had between the crime and his arrest you’d expect he’s done a lot of evidence covering.

I wonder if they will wait until they have identified the remains to formally charge him?

 

[Sarahlou]

There's been nothing to suggest these two knew each other. It seems it was completely random. I never thought they were known to each other. It always seemed like someone on the hunt for a random victim to me.

 

[Otto Nix]

You’re supposed to check your uniform in but some don’t. Some for example may say they lost their hat and get a new one ordered, and they have kept the hat all along. In any case it’s normally just a locker and who is checking the contents of the lockers on a daily basis.

IMO he would not have parked on the street and caused a blockage where he will be easy to catch on camera. He is more likely to have parked in the estate told her to come with him to sit in the car while he writes her ticket for breaking lockdown etc.

And I think it’s highly unlikely he’s bought lye or similar just because of the evidential trail it will leave. If where he’s gone has burnt out cars, it’s clear to me what he’s done with her body.

There were reports that the area is used for fly tipping and dumping cars (I think from a local, I will try to find it now), so that might explain the burnt out car. It may be unlikely but so is a police officer kidnapping and murdering a woman. Chemicals are quicker, quieter and leave less of trace as you are essentially left with a liquid with a few bits of bone. Also his wife has a biochemistry degree and works in a laboratory. Though, of course this is all pure speculation and you're right that burning would be much less hassle. Time will tell I suppose.

 

[Finders_Keepers]

Surely they wouldn't have this many different police/temp offices/toilets set up for the investigation of a single body ? This looks major , I think a lot more is going to be coming out

It may just be a complex crime scene. Also some of the infrastructure is to protect privacy of the investigation itself.

I wouldn’t read too much into it yet as they are likely just taking their time as no imminent need to charge him with the timeframes they have. But they will be looking for the maximum evidence they can get to secure a conviction.

Being the obscure nature of where they found the remains he has either confessed, someone else has led them there or they have determined it through technology. In the 90 miles of road and 100,s of square miles of open land between Clapham and Deal something has directed them there. It’s not a routine check.

 

[Emmalt]

The CCTV footage highlighted by @Sherlockhames really is creepy. Lots of movement from the front drivers seat, followed by somebody apparently sticking their head out of the back passenger window.

It’s time stamped 3/3/21 at 22:00

I’ve tried to attach a 5 sec video clip but it doesn’t like the .mov file extension. I’ll attach a still although it’s hard to tell what’s happening until you see movement on the clip. The car is front left as you look at the screen.

Where can I find this cctv. TIA

 

[Angleterre]

Y

snipped.

I guess that’s what we’re all here to discuss and speculate.

We won’t know what the evidence is really until trial (if and when). I’m not from or currently living in the UK but I did live there for a bit and happy to be corrected, but I’m of the impression that the evidence gets tested in court so the cards will be kept close to the chest until then.[/QUOTE
You are correct. Once a person is charged ( arraigned) , the whole case is then subject to subjudece laws and will not be reported upon other than dates of hearings etc .

 

[Columboshound]

this is my opinion too....she will be savvy enough to know even police uniform is not an indicator of safety! not in that way

Exactly. Even getting in a taxi I take a photo of the number plate or text a friend. This lack of contact makes me think that he attacked her first.

 

[TheBorez]

Some points to consider...

- The LE theory is that SE was not known the WC. After 1 week if there was anything linking them, LE would know for sure.
- The car used on the night SE was kidnapped was a HIRE car. This hire car was not one of the two personal vehicles removed from the property (Peugeot & Seat.)
- LE identified WC as a suspect because a London bus camera (or some reports say a dash cam) caught Sarah 'walking' also picked up his hire car in the area she was last seen.

Sarah detectives had breakthrough after London bus CCTV led to arrest

 

[Parmalade]

I want to say that I don't think it would be that difficult to get Sarah into the car. People seem really confused about that part but she's walking along, potentially with ear buds in so not listening, he runs up and forces her in. Probably 5 seconds, tops. He's stronger than her and it wouldn't even require a weapon or any sort of verbal interaction between the two. I know the Sun claims he used his police credentials but even that only gets you so far with a person, so I think that's probably what happened.

In other words, how he "tricked" her doesn't seem to be that relevant, and it does feel a little bit victim-blamey to me.

Agreed, his line of work would presumably give him skills in subduing somebody quickly and without much fuss. The more I think about using trickery, the more I think how risky that is for him - may take longer, SE might not fall for it and flee, raise attention, etc. Quickly snatching her, either from somewhere dark after he sees her come off the phone and bundling her into a very nearby car seems easier to me. If so; then likely not on the A205 as a stopped car would draw attention, but maybe a road off it like Rodenhurst or some driveway like near the bins of Poynders Court. Having the car already in place rather than drawing up next to her on a flowing main road would give him slightly more time to neutralise her threat on the subsequent journey to Kent by tying her up/cuffing her or rendering her unconscious, and also turning off or destroying her phone.

Edit to add: this isn’t to diminish the potential value in having his police badge on his person - could have been handy the event a passerby enquired as to why he was bundling a person into his car (I’m saying he could have thought/planned this in advance, not that a passerby did interject as I’m sure we’d have heard about that by now). I just sense he would have used his training and apparent size advantage to do something more physical and swift than conning her. JMO.

 

[Factuality]

@Angleterre

Thank you so much for all of your valuable input and facts. I read these threads literally for 15 hours yesterday and 6 hours so far today yesterday and I very much appreciate your knowledge that you share with us and dedication to this case.

 

[peplumpiglet]

In terms of getting SE into a car, his warrant card really can't be underestimated. It can wield a great deal of power, influence and trust when you're a law abiding citizen.

SE's interaction with LE was probably minimal up to this point and positive. She's also been widely described by friends, family and colleagues as a lovely, helpful person. Not naive, just inclined to think well of people with little reason to be suspicious of authority.

Sadly, I can envisage multiple approaches by WC that would have been effective.

Negative approach: LE says you've done something wrong. You worry that you have and defer to them.
Positive approach: LE says they need assistance. You switch into good citizen mode and try to help.
Positive approach: LE offers assistance. You switch into polite mode and accept.

edit: also, it's possible he was in uniform. He isn't supposed to be off duty but well ... that doesn't mean he wasn't. If WC wanted to take advantage of the extra authority it afforded him, he may well have been.

I think the other thing to bear in mind are both the conditions and circumstances. If I'm at home working with headphones in listening to music and suddenly notice someone trying to get my attention, I'm disorientated for a second as I start to tune back in to my environment. Now I can imagine how baffling it might immediately be to be walking in the dark with headphones on, next thing a tap on the shoulder or someone takes your arm, as you're trying to get your bearings there's a flash of a warrant card, maybe even a weapon, and a quick order to do something. However it might have happened these things can be really disorientating and happen really quickly, I don't think any of us really can know exactly how we'd react in a sudden situation like that happening in seconds and out of the blue.

 

[RexLuther]

Hi - sorry, new here. I've also watched the footage and find it really sinister - but to anyone with more experience with this site, does anyone know why you can only view the footage at 5 minute intervals? How do we view 10.01pm for instance?

Hi, the clips are from TFL so they have control over the duration/ frequency of them. The data they release is open source so the public can use it in travel apps / browsers to show delays, etc. Some apps / browsers archive this data accordingly. There is also GDPR to consider.

 

[Creamcheese]

It may just be a complex crime scene. Also some of the infrastructure is to protect privacy of the investigation itself.

I wouldn’t read too much into it yet as they are likely just taking their time as no imminent need to charge him with the timeframes they have. But they will be looking for the maximum evidence they can get to secure a conviction.

Being the obscure nature of where they found the remains he has either confessed, someone else has led them there or they have determined it through technology. In the 90 miles of road and 100,s of square miles of open land between Clapham and Deal something has directed them there. It’s not a routine check.

If he’s confessed, wouldn’t they have charged him by now?

 

[Columboshound]

If he’s confessed, wouldn’t they have charged him by now?

Yup I bet he’s all “no comment”

 

[Whitehall 1212]

Sorry if it's been said , where is the video clip from ? In relation to Poynders road ?

It is the A2216 Lordship Lane at the junction with the A205 Dulwich Common, London, SE22.

It is 3 and half miles from Poyners Court to this junction. The vehicle that folk think is suspicious is turning right from Lordship Lane southbound onto A205 Dulwich Common (the road) which would take the driver back towards Poyners Court (3 and half miles away). Why would an offender with a live, struggling victim be heading back towards the place that she was last seen?

The quality of the CCTV is very poor, with glare and distortion. It is very difficult to make out exactly what is going on. It is very easy for the mind to make up what it wants to see. Caution is always advised.

I have attached street view and road map for ease of reference.

Google Maps

Google Maps

 

[Chambo1994]

I honestly can’t believe she’d get in a car voluntarily with a bulky male at night who isn’t in a police car when she hasn’t committed a crime. Neither would she get in a car to do a good deed. We are taught this from being children. This is just my opinion based on being similar to Sarah in age, education, etc.

I think in this case you need to think of the current situation with regards to the pandemic...

We’re in a national lockdown so if a badged police officer was to approach you on that basis I don’t think you’d be shocked by it, whereas without the pandemic you may think you hadn’t done anything wrong.

I believe myself to be quite savvy with the police, but if I go out for a walk tonight and an officer we’re to question me based on being out during a lockdown then I’d be compliant with it

JMO