UT - Kouri Richins, 33, Author, wife, mom, charged in husband’s unexpected death last year, May 2023 #3
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Back and forth over what Carmen said in interviews with police versus her testimony today. Judge asks attorneys to approach for a quick conversation about scheduling. Sidebar is now over. He is dismissing jury for the evening.
Court will be back in session tomorrow at 8:30 a.m. Join me tonight at 7 p.m. on the East Idaho News YouTube channel for "Courtroom Insider." We'll recap what went on today. Lots to talk about!
During an afternoon, a juror passed a note to a bailiff asking if there were members of the audience in the courtroom sketching members of the jury. There was indeed a member in the audience sketching jurors and identifying the sketches by juror number. That person was removed and the sketchbook was confiscated.
Back and forth over what Carmen said in interviews with police versus her testimony today. Judge asks attorneys to approach for a quick conversation about scheduling. Sidebar is now over. He is dismissing jury for the evening.
Court will be back in session tomorrow at 8:30 a.m. Join me tonight at 7 p.m. on the East Idaho News YouTube channel for "Courtroom Insider." We'll recap what went on today. Lots to talk about!
During an afternoon, a juror passed a note to a bailiff asking if there were members of the audience in the courtroom sketching members of the jury. There was indeed a member in the audience sketching jurors and identifying the sketches by juror number. That person was removed and the sketchbook was confiscated.
Kouri Richins, a Utah mother of three boys, is accused of fatally poisoning her husband, Eric Richins, in 2022. She is on trial in Summit County, Utah, on charges of aggravated murder, attempted aggravated murder, insurance fraud and forgery.
Today is the fourth day of the trial. It is scheduled to begin each day at 8:30 a.m. East Idaho News will be posting live written updates all day. Please excuse typos. You can watch the livestream here. The most recent updates are at the top of this page.
4:49 p.m. During an afternoon, a juror passed a note to a bailiff asking if there were members of the audience in the courtroom sketching members of the jury. There was indeed a member in the audience sketching jurors and identifying the sketches by juror number. That person was removed and the sketchbook was confiscated. Court will be back in session tomorrow at 8:30 a.m. Join me tonight at 7 p.m. on the East Idaho News YouTube channel for “Courtroom Insider.” We’ll recap what went on today. Lots to talk about!
4:46 p.m. Back and forth over what Carmen said in interviews with police versus her testimony today. Judge asks attorneys to approach for a quick conversation about scheduling. Sidebar is now over. He is dismissing jury for the evening.
4:42 p.m. Lewis points to a comment a detective made that Carmen’s cooperation with them is a “giant get out of jail free card.” One of the detectives told her “this whole case depends on you” and “you need to finish painting the picture.” Carmen says that’s correct.
4:37 p.m. Lewis asking about conflicting stories Carmen apparently had about putting the pills in the firepit versus inside the house. She refers Carmen to the transcript.
4:33 p.m. When detectives brought up Robert Crozier with Carmen, Lewis asks if she remembered his name. She knew him as a dealer in Ogden and she asked for her phone to help remind her of his name. His name was in her phone.
4:29 p.m. Lewis asks Carmen about her reaching out to a woman named Nicole Cummings to get something stronger than the prescription Oxy she got from Susan. Carmen asked Nicole if she knew anybody who could get her some pills – some Roxy 30s or blues. Blues mean manmade drugs on the street. In early 2022, did blues at that time not mean fentanyl, Lewis asks. Carmen responds, “blues are blues.”
4:26 p.m. Lewis repeatedly asks about Carmen and her memory issues. She met with a detective in May 2023 and he told her because of her cooperation, she is not going to be charged. She replied, “I’m willing to do whatever.” The detectives told Carmen they needed to talk with Susan Kohler. They told Carmen that Susan could be charged with murder if her pills led to someone’s death.
4:23 p.m. Lewis asks Carmen if she told detectives, “Just write it all down and I’ll sign it.” She says she asked them to write her statement and she could sign it.
4:21 p.m. Lewis asks about Carmen telling detectives her memory was messed up and foggy. It’s in the transcript. Carmen says that’s correct. In the same interview, Carmen told detectives, “I bought pills for Kouri three times before Eric died.” Lewis asks if detectives came back later and told her that number isn’t correct – the last purchase happened after Eric died.
4:17 p.m. Lewis asks about Carmen leaving the drugs in the closet and the number of transactions. Lewis asks Carmen what date she left the pills in the Midway house. She doesn’t know the approximate date. Lewis asks what was in the Midway home when she put the pills in the closet. Carmen says it was pretty empty.
4:11 p.m. Lewis suggests that detectives put the idea of the fentanyl in Carmen’s head – that she didn’t deal with fentanyl. Carmen says no, they told her Eric died from fentanyl.
4:05 p.m. Lewis asks Carmen if she remembers being asked about M30s or Oxys. One of the detectives told her M30s was fentanyl, and she responded that she didn’t know much about fentanyl. Lewis asks if Kouri ever asked her to get her fentanyl. She did not, Lewis says. Carmen says she got Roxys from Susan but she could get fentanyl from Robert. Lewis asks about Kouri requesting the Michael Jackson drug. Carmen didn’t know what that was and looked it up. It was Propofol.
4:03 p.m. Defense pulls up a photo showing dark green pills. Carmen says the pills she got were lighter than the ones in the photo. We see an image of two pills on the screen. Lewis asks if the pills Carmen collected said anything on them. She doesn’t know.
4 p.m. Carmen says she was willing to do whatever it takes to get the truth out. She told detectives she needed a “blueprint” to lay out what happened. “I’ll do whatever it takes,” she said to investigators. The detectives told Carmen they would go to the prosecutor and try to work out a deal for her. One of the detectives asked Carmen to write down everything she could remember to help them out for the next meeting. She never did write everything out.
3:57 p.m. A portion of a video is played. It’s the detectives interviewing Carmen. We see the video. The investigators tell Carmen that the drug court is looking at giving her a 7-year sentence. The only exception they are willing to make is if Carmen gives up the details that ensure Kouri will get convicted of murder.
3:55 p.m. Lewis wants to play something for Carmen and the jury. Bloodworth objects. Judge asks attorneys to approach.
3:52 p.m. Lewis reminds Carmen that she told detectives she had a lot of memory problems and her memory isn’t the best. She confirms it. “A lot to process when you’re incarcerated,” she says. Carmen told investigators she had “fried her brain” using drugs. She has been using drugs since sixth grade.
3:51 p.m. Carmen told detectives she was going to fight hard to stay in drug court. The detectives told her they were on her side and as long as their relationship continued, they were there for her.
3:48 p.m. Lewis points to another part of the police interview transcript when Carmen told detectives in May 2023 she bought drugs once from Susan and twice from Robert. Today she testified that she bought drugs once from Susan and three times from Robert. Lewis asks about the contradiction. Carmen says it was a lot to process a few years ago.
3:46 p.m. Lewis points out, in a transcript of Carmen’s interview with police, that she told them she never did a hand-to-hand exchange with Kouri. But today she testified that she gave the pills directly to Kouri in her driveway. Carmen said the pills were $600 and she didn’t make any money off the deal. Lewis says that’s not a very good drug dealer. Carmen says she did it because Kouri was a friend.
3:45 p.m. Three years ago, Lewis points out that Carmen told detectives the money was left in the fire pit at the Midway home and then the pills were placed there. This contradicts what she said earlier – that the pills were left inside the Midway home.
3:42 p.m. Jury is back. Lewis continues to question. Asks to admit the docket from drug court. Lewis asks what Roxy 30s are. They are stronger Oxycodone pills. Lewis asks if they are 30 milligrams of Oxycodone. Carmen isn’t sure.
3:40 p.m. Judge is back on the bench. He reminds everyone in the courtroom that there can be no audible reactions to the evidence or events in the courtroom. “Sit, be still, no audible reactions to anything. If anyone is unable to follow this instruction, I’ll need you to step out.”
3:14 p.m. Lewis asking about roxys. They are pain pills. Prosecution mentions that we’ve been in questioning since 12:30. Judge suggests taking a break. We are in recess until 3:25 p.m.
3:11 p.m. Carmen told the detectives that Kouri asked her for help getting pills for her investor. Lewis asks Carmen about her learning disability. “Can you share what that is?” Carmen responds, “No.” Lewis tells her to answer the question. Judge says she needs to answer. She responds that she has a low education.
3:07 p.m. The detectives left and Carmen says it was a lot to process while she was incarcerated. Carmen was looking at a lot of prison time and was worried. The detectives come back on May 2 and bring a DEA agent with them. This time they tell her that she’s looking at more time because if you provide a drug to someone and they die, you’re looking at a minimum of 20 years in prison. The investigators told Carmen they could help her out.
3:04 p.m. Lewis asked about Carmen telling the detectives she wanted to get out of Utah and go to Las Vegas to visit her fiancé. Carmen says the judge let her go to Vegas before she started cooperating with investigators. The detectives asked Carmen for her help in the Richins investigation. She said she needed some time to think about it.
3 p.m. The detectives told Carmen they believe Kouri killed Eric and that he died of a fentanyl overdose. That was the first time Carmen heard from officers that Eric had died of an overdose. She had heard earlier from a work colleague that Eric died of an overdose and that’s when she called Kouri to ask if it was true. During Carmen’s meeting with detectives, she told them that she has never done fentanyl. She has a daughter who had a problem with heroin and fentanyl. Her daughter has overdosed but survived.
2:56 p.m. Lewis asks to admit the order to show cause court document. No objection. Judge allows it in. Carmen was arrested on April 26, 2023. The next day, two detectives showed up to talk with her. They told her they found a gun under her bed and her drug court is in jeopardy. She was looking at two 5 years-life sentences and one 0-5 year sentence if she was found guilty in drug court.
2:53 p.m. Carmen started getting better, but then was arrested for driving on a suspended license. Then an order to show cause was issued in drug court. She needed to go into drug court and explain what happened. The judge would then make a decision if she can remain in drug court or get kicked out.
2:50 p.m. Carmen was using the day she bought drugs from Susan Kohler, Lewis points out. Lewis points out other days when she tested positive. Lewis says the entire time she was picking up drugs in early 2022, she was high. “Not the whole time,” Carmen says. She admits she was using regularly.
2:47 p.m. Lewis lists several days when Carmen missed drug tests and was sanctioned in late 2021 and early 2022. On Jan. 28, 2022, she tested positive for meth. She asked to be retested. The next week, she admitted she used meth and relapsed. She said working with the cleaning company, she folded and lied. “That’s what addicts do,” Carmen says. Lewis responds, “Yes, addicts lie.” Carmen responds, “Active addicts.”
2:45 p.m. Lewis approaches the witness to point out the times Carmen missed therapy, drug tests and drug court. Carmen says some of the absences were due to the fact she was running behind for work.
2:42 p.m. A warrant was issued for Carmen and the next week, she tested positive for benzos three times. The most common benzodiazepines are prescription drugs like Valium, Xanax, Halcion, Ativan and Klonopin. Carmen missed therapy in November.
2:40 p.m. Lewis asks Carmen if she was struggling in drug court. Carmen says in the beginning she was. Carmen missed her group therapy and treatment a few days after she started drug court in September 2021. She had to pay a $40 fee for missing therapy. The next month, in October 2021, she failed to appear for drug court.
2:36 p.m. Carmen has not completed drug court. Lewis asks about the expectations from drug court. Go to treatment, call in every day, drug testing, be employed, show up every week for group therapy. Carmen started drug court in September 2021.
2:34 p.m. Lewis asks how many first-degree felonies Carmen has been arrested for. She isn’t sure. Lewis lists off the felony charges Carmen has faced. Then she lists misdemeanor charges. Lewis talks about the plea-in-advance deal Carmen got. The court holds the plea and if you successfully complete drug court, the charges will be dismissed.
2:33 p.m. Carmen also spoke with her best friend Nick. Lewis asks if she told Nick, “I don’t even remember. You’re going to have to help me.” Lewis asks Carmen if she has been diagnosed with any mental health problems. Carmen says no. “You sure?” She says, “Yes.” Lewis brings up anxiety and asks if she takes any medication for it. She says she’s not on anxiety medication.
2:31 p.m. Lewis asks if the prosecutors helped put together the pieces of her testimony. Carmen says she asked them for assistance. Lewis asks Carmen who else she has spoken to about her testimony in the case. “Nobody,” she says. Carmen then says she spoke with two detectives and a lady from the feds while she was in jail.
2:29 p.m. Lewis asks if she has met with prosecutors over the past few weeks. Carmen has. Lewis asks if they practiced her testimony with her. She says they didn’t really practice, but went over some questions. Lewis asks if they reviewed her answers with her. Carmen says they did. Lewis asks if the prosecutors corrected her if they thought her answer was wrong. “Not really, no,” she says. Lewis asks if they practiced cross-examination with her. “They kind of just brought up how you were going to bring up my past, how I was going to feel.”
2:27 p.m. Carmen always met with the detectives 3-4 times. Lewis asks if they would talk about her testimony. She says not about her testimony, but questions like where she was during certain times. Lewis asks if the conversations were recorded. Carmen isn’t 100% sure. Lewis asks Carmen if the detectives drove her places. She says they sometimes drove her to court. Lewis asks if they had conversations in the car. Carmen says no.
2:25 p.m. Lewis has large black binders that she gives to Carmen. They are transcripts of the interviews Carmen did with investigators. “Whoa, that’s a lot,” Carmen says. Lewis says that between April and May 2023, Carmen had seven interviews with the police. Correct. Lewis asks how many times she met with detectives after she got out of jail. “A couple.” She isn’t sure on the numbers because it was a while back.
2:23 p.m. Carmen has never done any other drug deals with Robert and has never been back to the Maverik in Draper. Robert hit her up later for drug deals and said his buddy had more if her friend wanted any. Carmen reached out to Kouri and said more was available if she needed any. “She said no, her investor had left town,” Carmen says. Bloodworth has nothing further. Defense attorney Wendy Lewis will now question Carmen.
2:21 p.m. Robert came out of the townhouse with a baggie of round dark blue pills. Nick and Carmen left. He dropped Carmen off at her house. She texted Kouri and asked what she wanted Carmen to do with the pills. Kouri told her to take the pills to the Midway house. She put the pills in the closet.
2:18 p.m. Carmen went to the bank to deposit the check. Her account was in the negative. She deposited $300 and took out $1,000 cash. We see the receipt on the screen. Nick and Carmen then drove down Provo Canyon to pick up the drugs. She texted Robert but it was taking a while so she and Nick stopped at thrift stores. They eventually ended up at Maverik in Draper. They waited and Robert left for 20 minutes. He came back. He said his friend wasn’t answering the door. They followed Robert down the road to a duplex. They waited and Carmen said she wanted to leave.
2:16 p.m. Bloodworth moves to admit the check Kouri wrote to Carmen. It’s for $1,300 and was written on March 6, 2022. In the memo section it says, “construction clean Midway.” Bloodworth asks Carmen if Kouri owed her any money for cleaning or anything else. She did not. “I never cleaned a house ever in my life for $1,300.”
2:11 p.m. Back in the courtroom. Judge reminds Carmen to speak clearly into the microphone. The text exchange is now displayed. One of the texts is from Kouri to Carmen, “Still have your hook up?” Carmen said she could reach out to Robert. She responded, “Ok.” Kouri told Carmen that the investor would leave money under the doormat of Kouri’s Kamas home so Carmen could pay for the drugs. Nick picked Carmen up and went to Kouri’s house to pick up the cash. There was nothing under the doormats. Carmen rang the doorbell and Kouri told her to come inside. Carmen told her the money wasn’t there and Kouri asked if she could write Carmen a check. Kouri then wrote her a check.
www.eastidahonews.com
Today is the fourth day of the trial. It is scheduled to begin each day at 8:30 a.m. East Idaho News will be posting live written updates all day. Please excuse typos. You can watch the livestream here. The most recent updates are at the top of this page.
4:49 p.m. During an afternoon, a juror passed a note to a bailiff asking if there were members of the audience in the courtroom sketching members of the jury. There was indeed a member in the audience sketching jurors and identifying the sketches by juror number. That person was removed and the sketchbook was confiscated. Court will be back in session tomorrow at 8:30 a.m. Join me tonight at 7 p.m. on the East Idaho News YouTube channel for “Courtroom Insider.” We’ll recap what went on today. Lots to talk about!
4:46 p.m. Back and forth over what Carmen said in interviews with police versus her testimony today. Judge asks attorneys to approach for a quick conversation about scheduling. Sidebar is now over. He is dismissing jury for the evening.
4:42 p.m. Lewis points to a comment a detective made that Carmen’s cooperation with them is a “giant get out of jail free card.” One of the detectives told her “this whole case depends on you” and “you need to finish painting the picture.” Carmen says that’s correct.
4:37 p.m. Lewis asking about conflicting stories Carmen apparently had about putting the pills in the firepit versus inside the house. She refers Carmen to the transcript.
4:33 p.m. When detectives brought up Robert Crozier with Carmen, Lewis asks if she remembered his name. She knew him as a dealer in Ogden and she asked for her phone to help remind her of his name. His name was in her phone.
4:29 p.m. Lewis asks Carmen about her reaching out to a woman named Nicole Cummings to get something stronger than the prescription Oxy she got from Susan. Carmen asked Nicole if she knew anybody who could get her some pills – some Roxy 30s or blues. Blues mean manmade drugs on the street. In early 2022, did blues at that time not mean fentanyl, Lewis asks. Carmen responds, “blues are blues.”
4:26 p.m. Lewis repeatedly asks about Carmen and her memory issues. She met with a detective in May 2023 and he told her because of her cooperation, she is not going to be charged. She replied, “I’m willing to do whatever.” The detectives told Carmen they needed to talk with Susan Kohler. They told Carmen that Susan could be charged with murder if her pills led to someone’s death.
4:23 p.m. Lewis asks Carmen if she told detectives, “Just write it all down and I’ll sign it.” She says she asked them to write her statement and she could sign it.
4:21 p.m. Lewis asks about Carmen telling detectives her memory was messed up and foggy. It’s in the transcript. Carmen says that’s correct. In the same interview, Carmen told detectives, “I bought pills for Kouri three times before Eric died.” Lewis asks if detectives came back later and told her that number isn’t correct – the last purchase happened after Eric died.
4:17 p.m. Lewis asks about Carmen leaving the drugs in the closet and the number of transactions. Lewis asks Carmen what date she left the pills in the Midway house. She doesn’t know the approximate date. Lewis asks what was in the Midway home when she put the pills in the closet. Carmen says it was pretty empty.
4:11 p.m. Lewis suggests that detectives put the idea of the fentanyl in Carmen’s head – that she didn’t deal with fentanyl. Carmen says no, they told her Eric died from fentanyl.
4:05 p.m. Lewis asks Carmen if she remembers being asked about M30s or Oxys. One of the detectives told her M30s was fentanyl, and she responded that she didn’t know much about fentanyl. Lewis asks if Kouri ever asked her to get her fentanyl. She did not, Lewis says. Carmen says she got Roxys from Susan but she could get fentanyl from Robert. Lewis asks about Kouri requesting the Michael Jackson drug. Carmen didn’t know what that was and looked it up. It was Propofol.
4:03 p.m. Defense pulls up a photo showing dark green pills. Carmen says the pills she got were lighter than the ones in the photo. We see an image of two pills on the screen. Lewis asks if the pills Carmen collected said anything on them. She doesn’t know.
4 p.m. Carmen says she was willing to do whatever it takes to get the truth out. She told detectives she needed a “blueprint” to lay out what happened. “I’ll do whatever it takes,” she said to investigators. The detectives told Carmen they would go to the prosecutor and try to work out a deal for her. One of the detectives asked Carmen to write down everything she could remember to help them out for the next meeting. She never did write everything out.
3:57 p.m. A portion of a video is played. It’s the detectives interviewing Carmen. We see the video. The investigators tell Carmen that the drug court is looking at giving her a 7-year sentence. The only exception they are willing to make is if Carmen gives up the details that ensure Kouri will get convicted of murder.
3:55 p.m. Lewis wants to play something for Carmen and the jury. Bloodworth objects. Judge asks attorneys to approach.
3:52 p.m. Lewis reminds Carmen that she told detectives she had a lot of memory problems and her memory isn’t the best. She confirms it. “A lot to process when you’re incarcerated,” she says. Carmen told investigators she had “fried her brain” using drugs. She has been using drugs since sixth grade.
3:51 p.m. Carmen told detectives she was going to fight hard to stay in drug court. The detectives told her they were on her side and as long as their relationship continued, they were there for her.
3:48 p.m. Lewis points to another part of the police interview transcript when Carmen told detectives in May 2023 she bought drugs once from Susan and twice from Robert. Today she testified that she bought drugs once from Susan and three times from Robert. Lewis asks about the contradiction. Carmen says it was a lot to process a few years ago.
3:46 p.m. Lewis points out, in a transcript of Carmen’s interview with police, that she told them she never did a hand-to-hand exchange with Kouri. But today she testified that she gave the pills directly to Kouri in her driveway. Carmen said the pills were $600 and she didn’t make any money off the deal. Lewis says that’s not a very good drug dealer. Carmen says she did it because Kouri was a friend.
3:45 p.m. Three years ago, Lewis points out that Carmen told detectives the money was left in the fire pit at the Midway home and then the pills were placed there. This contradicts what she said earlier – that the pills were left inside the Midway home.
3:42 p.m. Jury is back. Lewis continues to question. Asks to admit the docket from drug court. Lewis asks what Roxy 30s are. They are stronger Oxycodone pills. Lewis asks if they are 30 milligrams of Oxycodone. Carmen isn’t sure.
3:40 p.m. Judge is back on the bench. He reminds everyone in the courtroom that there can be no audible reactions to the evidence or events in the courtroom. “Sit, be still, no audible reactions to anything. If anyone is unable to follow this instruction, I’ll need you to step out.”
3:14 p.m. Lewis asking about roxys. They are pain pills. Prosecution mentions that we’ve been in questioning since 12:30. Judge suggests taking a break. We are in recess until 3:25 p.m.
3:11 p.m. Carmen told the detectives that Kouri asked her for help getting pills for her investor. Lewis asks Carmen about her learning disability. “Can you share what that is?” Carmen responds, “No.” Lewis tells her to answer the question. Judge says she needs to answer. She responds that she has a low education.
3:07 p.m. The detectives left and Carmen says it was a lot to process while she was incarcerated. Carmen was looking at a lot of prison time and was worried. The detectives come back on May 2 and bring a DEA agent with them. This time they tell her that she’s looking at more time because if you provide a drug to someone and they die, you’re looking at a minimum of 20 years in prison. The investigators told Carmen they could help her out.
3:04 p.m. Lewis asked about Carmen telling the detectives she wanted to get out of Utah and go to Las Vegas to visit her fiancé. Carmen says the judge let her go to Vegas before she started cooperating with investigators. The detectives asked Carmen for her help in the Richins investigation. She said she needed some time to think about it.
3 p.m. The detectives told Carmen they believe Kouri killed Eric and that he died of a fentanyl overdose. That was the first time Carmen heard from officers that Eric had died of an overdose. She had heard earlier from a work colleague that Eric died of an overdose and that’s when she called Kouri to ask if it was true. During Carmen’s meeting with detectives, she told them that she has never done fentanyl. She has a daughter who had a problem with heroin and fentanyl. Her daughter has overdosed but survived.
2:56 p.m. Lewis asks to admit the order to show cause court document. No objection. Judge allows it in. Carmen was arrested on April 26, 2023. The next day, two detectives showed up to talk with her. They told her they found a gun under her bed and her drug court is in jeopardy. She was looking at two 5 years-life sentences and one 0-5 year sentence if she was found guilty in drug court.
2:53 p.m. Carmen started getting better, but then was arrested for driving on a suspended license. Then an order to show cause was issued in drug court. She needed to go into drug court and explain what happened. The judge would then make a decision if she can remain in drug court or get kicked out.
2:50 p.m. Carmen was using the day she bought drugs from Susan Kohler, Lewis points out. Lewis points out other days when she tested positive. Lewis says the entire time she was picking up drugs in early 2022, she was high. “Not the whole time,” Carmen says. She admits she was using regularly.
2:47 p.m. Lewis lists several days when Carmen missed drug tests and was sanctioned in late 2021 and early 2022. On Jan. 28, 2022, she tested positive for meth. She asked to be retested. The next week, she admitted she used meth and relapsed. She said working with the cleaning company, she folded and lied. “That’s what addicts do,” Carmen says. Lewis responds, “Yes, addicts lie.” Carmen responds, “Active addicts.”
2:45 p.m. Lewis approaches the witness to point out the times Carmen missed therapy, drug tests and drug court. Carmen says some of the absences were due to the fact she was running behind for work.
2:42 p.m. A warrant was issued for Carmen and the next week, she tested positive for benzos three times. The most common benzodiazepines are prescription drugs like Valium, Xanax, Halcion, Ativan and Klonopin. Carmen missed therapy in November.
2:40 p.m. Lewis asks Carmen if she was struggling in drug court. Carmen says in the beginning she was. Carmen missed her group therapy and treatment a few days after she started drug court in September 2021. She had to pay a $40 fee for missing therapy. The next month, in October 2021, she failed to appear for drug court.
2:36 p.m. Carmen has not completed drug court. Lewis asks about the expectations from drug court. Go to treatment, call in every day, drug testing, be employed, show up every week for group therapy. Carmen started drug court in September 2021.
2:34 p.m. Lewis asks how many first-degree felonies Carmen has been arrested for. She isn’t sure. Lewis lists off the felony charges Carmen has faced. Then she lists misdemeanor charges. Lewis talks about the plea-in-advance deal Carmen got. The court holds the plea and if you successfully complete drug court, the charges will be dismissed.
2:33 p.m. Carmen also spoke with her best friend Nick. Lewis asks if she told Nick, “I don’t even remember. You’re going to have to help me.” Lewis asks Carmen if she has been diagnosed with any mental health problems. Carmen says no. “You sure?” She says, “Yes.” Lewis brings up anxiety and asks if she takes any medication for it. She says she’s not on anxiety medication.
2:31 p.m. Lewis asks if the prosecutors helped put together the pieces of her testimony. Carmen says she asked them for assistance. Lewis asks Carmen who else she has spoken to about her testimony in the case. “Nobody,” she says. Carmen then says she spoke with two detectives and a lady from the feds while she was in jail.
2:29 p.m. Lewis asks if she has met with prosecutors over the past few weeks. Carmen has. Lewis asks if they practiced her testimony with her. She says they didn’t really practice, but went over some questions. Lewis asks if they reviewed her answers with her. Carmen says they did. Lewis asks if the prosecutors corrected her if they thought her answer was wrong. “Not really, no,” she says. Lewis asks if they practiced cross-examination with her. “They kind of just brought up how you were going to bring up my past, how I was going to feel.”
2:27 p.m. Carmen always met with the detectives 3-4 times. Lewis asks if they would talk about her testimony. She says not about her testimony, but questions like where she was during certain times. Lewis asks if the conversations were recorded. Carmen isn’t 100% sure. Lewis asks Carmen if the detectives drove her places. She says they sometimes drove her to court. Lewis asks if they had conversations in the car. Carmen says no.
2:25 p.m. Lewis has large black binders that she gives to Carmen. They are transcripts of the interviews Carmen did with investigators. “Whoa, that’s a lot,” Carmen says. Lewis says that between April and May 2023, Carmen had seven interviews with the police. Correct. Lewis asks how many times she met with detectives after she got out of jail. “A couple.” She isn’t sure on the numbers because it was a while back.
2:23 p.m. Carmen has never done any other drug deals with Robert and has never been back to the Maverik in Draper. Robert hit her up later for drug deals and said his buddy had more if her friend wanted any. Carmen reached out to Kouri and said more was available if she needed any. “She said no, her investor had left town,” Carmen says. Bloodworth has nothing further. Defense attorney Wendy Lewis will now question Carmen.
2:21 p.m. Robert came out of the townhouse with a baggie of round dark blue pills. Nick and Carmen left. He dropped Carmen off at her house. She texted Kouri and asked what she wanted Carmen to do with the pills. Kouri told her to take the pills to the Midway house. She put the pills in the closet.
2:18 p.m. Carmen went to the bank to deposit the check. Her account was in the negative. She deposited $300 and took out $1,000 cash. We see the receipt on the screen. Nick and Carmen then drove down Provo Canyon to pick up the drugs. She texted Robert but it was taking a while so she and Nick stopped at thrift stores. They eventually ended up at Maverik in Draper. They waited and Robert left for 20 minutes. He came back. He said his friend wasn’t answering the door. They followed Robert down the road to a duplex. They waited and Carmen said she wanted to leave.
2:16 p.m. Bloodworth moves to admit the check Kouri wrote to Carmen. It’s for $1,300 and was written on March 6, 2022. In the memo section it says, “construction clean Midway.” Bloodworth asks Carmen if Kouri owed her any money for cleaning or anything else. She did not. “I never cleaned a house ever in my life for $1,300.”
2:11 p.m. Back in the courtroom. Judge reminds Carmen to speak clearly into the microphone. The text exchange is now displayed. One of the texts is from Kouri to Carmen, “Still have your hook up?” Carmen said she could reach out to Robert. She responded, “Ok.” Kouri told Carmen that the investor would leave money under the doormat of Kouri’s Kamas home so Carmen could pay for the drugs. Nick picked Carmen up and went to Kouri’s house to pick up the cash. There was nothing under the doormats. Carmen rang the doorbell and Kouri told her to come inside. Carmen told her the money wasn’t there and Kouri asked if she could write Carmen a check. Kouri then wrote her a check.
LIVE UPDATES | Day 4 of Kouri Richins murder trial - East Idaho News
Kouri Richins, a Utah mother of three boys, is accused of fatally poisoning her husband, Eric Richins, in 2022. She is on trial in Summit County, Utah, on charges of aggravated murder, attempted aggravated murder, insurance fraud and forgery. Today is the fourth day of the trial. It is scheduled...
www.eastidahonews.com
4:49 p.m. During an afternoon, a juror passed a note to a bailiff asking if there were members of the audience in the courtroom sketching members of the jury. There was indeed a member in the audience sketching jurors and identifying the sketches by juror number. That person was removed and the sketchbook was confiscated. Court will be back in session tomorrow at 8:30 a.m. Join me tonight at 7 p.m. on the East Idaho News YouTube channel for “Courtroom Insider.” We’ll recap what went on today. Lots to talk about!
www.eastidahonews.com
LIVE UPDATES | Day 4 of Kouri Richins murder trial - East Idaho News
Kouri Richins, a Utah mother of three boys, is accused of fatally poisoning her husband, Eric Richins, in 2022. She is on trial in Summit County, Utah, on charges of aggravated murder, attempted aggravated murder, insurance fraud and forgery. Today is the fourth day of the trial. It is scheduled...
www.eastidahonews.com
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I believe when Carmen is referring to her faulty memory and her saying "it is a lot to process" ...I think she has a hard time remembering specific details such as: dates that the drug exchanges happened, where the drugs were put in specific order, each detail about each drug exchange etc. It may be hard to separate out the specifics of the three different buys from Robbie. Also, at the time she is doing these drug exchanges she is not making a mental note of every move she makes. She doesn't know she'll be involved in a murder trial years later.
Also, she was in addictive addiction combined with (as the defense wanted to point out) having some learning challenges ...they are asking her to recall a lot. They are asking what she recalled while speaking to the detectives on many different occasions over a large span of time.
She is on the stand in front of an audience, a camera that is streaming live, the Judge...it is a lot.
Also, I think it gets confusing to Carmen when the defense is asking her what she remembers now and what she remembered then. For example, there were a few times I wish Carmen would have said., "Yes, I said that then because I was confused then at that moment what they were asking me."
I know the state will get this cleaned up. At the end of the day, I believe Carmen does not remember ALL the details of the drug exchanges, but I do believe she knows for sure that she did, in fact, buy drugs for Kouri on several occasions. The defense wants to show the jury she is confused on some of the details - ok - fine. What really matters (IMO) is that the jury believes that she did get Kouri the drugs.
JMO>
Also, she was in addictive addiction combined with (as the defense wanted to point out) having some learning challenges ...they are asking her to recall a lot. They are asking what she recalled while speaking to the detectives on many different occasions over a large span of time.
She is on the stand in front of an audience, a camera that is streaming live, the Judge...it is a lot.
Also, I think it gets confusing to Carmen when the defense is asking her what she remembers now and what she remembered then. For example, there were a few times I wish Carmen would have said., "Yes, I said that then because I was confused then at that moment what they were asking me."
I know the state will get this cleaned up. At the end of the day, I believe Carmen does not remember ALL the details of the drug exchanges, but I do believe she knows for sure that she did, in fact, buy drugs for Kouri on several occasions. The defense wants to show the jury she is confused on some of the details - ok - fine. What really matters (IMO) is that the jury believes that she did get Kouri the drugs.
JMO>
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Defense should’ve ended cross after the video clip showing LE was pressing her and she was willing to do whatever it took. However, like almost all our their crosses, they can’t just make their point and let it be. They have to make it 18 different ways. I do not think we need to go through transcripts of seven different interviews to show CL’s stories are conflicting and she was pressed by LE. We got it!
Now, the video, which was pretty powerful has so much less of an impact bc there’s just so much for the jury to wade through.
On redirect, prosecution needs to focus on the check. No LE involvement there. MOO
Now, the video, which was pretty powerful has so much less of an impact bc there’s just so much for the jury to wade through.
On redirect, prosecution needs to focus on the check. No LE involvement there. MOO
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Yeah, sometimes I think lawyers think juries aren't intelligent.
When actually, to get to be on a jury, they have to be of average or higher intelligence, and they can put things together just as well as the next person.
And any jury can get turned off by a lawyer of either side seeming to bully a sympathetic witness who is giving every appearance of trying their best to be truthful. That can actually be a stronger motivator than the facts as to whether a jury sides with a witness or against them.
This defense team did the same with the victim's sister, and it was just as distasteful.
It's not that I'm expecting them to be pleasant, that isn't the point. The point is, they are actually making the prosecution's job easier by being so hamfisted about it. Their approach isn't working.
MOO
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They asked Carmen to disclose her disability? As far as I know that is against the law. Does that not apply while testifying?
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What’s with all the questions about how the prosecutors prepped her? It seems extreme to me.
[
That video was pretty bad for the state. Those detectives sound like novices. WTH! The state could’ve objected to that video. It’s an improper way to refresh her memory but they didn’t object. I’m baffled.
That video was pretty bad for the state. Those detectives sound like novices. WTH! The state could’ve objected to that video. It’s an improper way to refresh her memory but they didn’t object. I’m baffled.
Omg. What an idiot. Good for that juror for noticing and passing the note to the bailiff and questioning. Sounds like a smart and observant juror!
Because law enforcement literally told Carmen “…he means, like give us the details that will ensure Kouri gets convicted of murder” and they want to try and argue that the prosecution, an extension of law enforcement, may have also helped her in ways that resulted in her story(ies) changing. They want to make it seem like the damning details of her story were a result of her being spoonfed information and/or her changing details until they had something that aligned with the evidence.
I was equally baffled (as some others expressed here) that the State didn’t object to playing of that video. It’s not a good look when law enforcement is telling this witness they want details that will ensure a conviction, one would hope words like “we want the truth” would have been in there somewhere. Defense also probably didn’t look good repeatedly badgering the witness over changing details or things she couldn’t remember, so maybe it’ll all end in a wash. jmoo.
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I just finished listening to today's testimony.
I am so angry with KR and I didn't think I could get angrier.
The Defense's hammering about CL's drug use, criminal record, disability (learning disability and lack of education, etc) ought to backfire on them. KR chose CL precisely because of those factors. KR had known CL, took advantage of CL for her own benefit, consequences to CL be dammed. Cleaning for the family was likely lucrative, CL believed she be helping KR help a friend. Besides, KR was her employer, KR had the power. CL probably couldn't afford not-to-work for the R family, has she been fired.
KR could have chosen to elevate CL. Help her come clean.... but no, KR used her. Let CL bear all the risk.
And now, to have the Defense attorney going after her mercilessly, I know it's what Defense attorneys do but it's repulsive.
CL meant NOTHING to KR. Zero concern for the consequences to CL.
There is one bit of justice here. CL has turned her life around. Sober. She looks healthy, sounds like she's building a good life for herself. It's KR who (IMO) is headed to prison. For life. She too can turn her life around -- I how she does -- but behind bars.
JMO
I am so angry with KR and I didn't think I could get angrier.
The Defense's hammering about CL's drug use, criminal record, disability (learning disability and lack of education, etc) ought to backfire on them. KR chose CL precisely because of those factors. KR had known CL, took advantage of CL for her own benefit, consequences to CL be dammed. Cleaning for the family was likely lucrative, CL believed she be helping KR help a friend. Besides, KR was her employer, KR had the power. CL probably couldn't afford not-to-work for the R family, has she been fired.
KR could have chosen to elevate CL. Help her come clean.... but no, KR used her. Let CL bear all the risk.
And now, to have the Defense attorney going after her mercilessly, I know it's what Defense attorneys do but it's repulsive.
CL meant NOTHING to KR. Zero concern for the consequences to CL.
There is one bit of justice here. CL has turned her life around. Sober. She looks healthy, sounds like she's building a good life for herself. It's KR who (IMO) is headed to prison. For life. She too can turn her life around -- I how she does -- but behind bars.
JMO
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What do y'all think the 4th score of drugs was for?
1. KR had someone else in mind, whom she wanted to dispatch from earth
Or
2. KR wanted CL to think there really was an injured investor. 'I didn't solicit drugs to OD my husband. If I did, surely I wouldn't keep buying drugs after he was dead. See, this is me, still buying drugs from a dead man.'
JMO
1. KR had someone else in mind, whom she wanted to dispatch from earth
Or
2. KR wanted CL to think there really was an injured investor. 'I didn't solicit drugs to OD my husband. If I did, surely I wouldn't keep buying drugs after he was dead. See, this is me, still buying drugs from a dead man.'
JMO
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Where is the Defense going with this anyway? Innocent KR is buyin' nice safe over the counter Rosie's and Oxies? For what purpose if not to ...?
And meanwhile, without it hitting any radars close to him, ER is building up a tolerance for fentynal without any record of acquiring it but also managed to take all that he had that night.... because why?
Nope, KR solicited someone who she knew people would discredit in order to get illicit drugs which in turn is found in her dead husband's system, barely metabolized AND bearing the mark of street drugs and not controlled pharmaceuticals.
KR is going down for this. Rightfully. The drugs she bought wound up in a dead man's blood stream.
IMO the State isn't required to show HOW ER ingested the fentynal to prove that she killed him with it.
Only two people know how it was administered. And one of them is dead.
For all we know, KR could have played the role of doting wife and brought ER three "ibuprofens" once he was in bed, to help him feel better. Only instead, it was a fatal dose of fentanyl, fatal fives times over.
Overkill.
Just as she planned it.
JMO
And meanwhile, without it hitting any radars close to him, ER is building up a tolerance for fentynal without any record of acquiring it but also managed to take all that he had that night.... because why?
Nope, KR solicited someone who she knew people would discredit in order to get illicit drugs which in turn is found in her dead husband's system, barely metabolized AND bearing the mark of street drugs and not controlled pharmaceuticals.
KR is going down for this. Rightfully. The drugs she bought wound up in a dead man's blood stream.
IMO the State isn't required to show HOW ER ingested the fentynal to prove that she killed him with it.
Only two people know how it was administered. And one of them is dead.
For all we know, KR could have played the role of doting wife and brought ER three "ibuprofens" once he was in bed, to help him feel better. Only instead, it was a fatal dose of fentanyl, fatal fives times over.
Overkill.
Just as she planned it.
JMO
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I think she wanted to plant the drugs somewhere around the house to cinch the accidental overdose theory. I'm not sure what happened with that plan, since I guess she didn't do it.
The fact that she asked for more pills only a few days after his death is just, wow, unbelievable to me.
I also want to add: I'd like to hear the entire interview or conversation with the cop(s). I hate it when attorneys just give me a tiny snippet that they want me to hear. It could be completely out of context when I hear the whole thing. MOO
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Hey Everyone Look UP
See the video at the top of the thread? That is the livestream from the Richins trial for today from Hidden True Crime. No need to go on YouTube. Stay on Websleuths and post and watch.
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WOW Thank you arielilane.Kouri Richins, a Utah mother of three boys, is accused of fatally poisoning her husband, Eric Richins, in 2022. She is on trial in Summit County, Utah, on charges of aggravated murder, attempted aggravated murder, insurance fraud and forgery.
Today is the fourth day of the trial. It is scheduled to begin each day at 8:30 a.m. East Idaho News will be posting live written updates all day. Please excuse typos. You can watch the livestream here. The most recent updates are at the top of this page.
4:49 p.m. During an afternoon, a juror passed a note to a bailiff asking if there were members of the audience in the courtroom sketching members of the jury. There was indeed a member in the audience sketching jurors and identifying the sketches by juror number. That person was removed and the sketchbook was confiscated. Court will be back in session tomorrow at 8:30 a.m. Join me tonight at 7 p.m. on the East Idaho News YouTube channel for “Courtroom Insider.” We’ll recap what went on today. Lots to talk about!
4:46 p.m. Back and forth over what Carmen said in interviews with police versus her testimony today. Judge asks attorneys to approach for a quick conversation about scheduling. Sidebar is now over. He is dismissing jury for the evening.
4:42 p.m. Lewis points to a comment a detective made that Carmen’s cooperation with them is a “giant get out of jail free card.” One of the detectives told her “this whole case depends on you” and “you need to finish painting the picture.” Carmen says that’s correct.
4:37 p.m. Lewis asking about conflicting stories Carmen apparently had about putting the pills in the firepit versus inside the house. She refers Carmen to the transcript.
4:33 p.m. When detectives brought up Robert Crozier with Carmen, Lewis asks if she remembered his name. She knew him as a dealer in Ogden and she asked for her phone to help remind her of his name. His name was in her phone.
4:29 p.m. Lewis asks Carmen about her reaching out to a woman named Nicole Cummings to get something stronger than the prescription Oxy she got from Susan. Carmen asked Nicole if she knew anybody who could get her some pills – some Roxy 30s or blues. Blues mean manmade drugs on the street. In early 2022, did blues at that time not mean fentanyl, Lewis asks. Carmen responds, “blues are blues.”
4:26 p.m. Lewis repeatedly asks about Carmen and her memory issues. She met with a detective in May 2023 and he told her because of her cooperation, she is not going to be charged. She replied, “I’m willing to do whatever.” The detectives told Carmen they needed to talk with Susan Kohler. They told Carmen that Susan could be charged with murder if her pills led to someone’s death.
4:23 p.m. Lewis asks Carmen if she told detectives, “Just write it all down and I’ll sign it.” She says she asked them to write her statement and she could sign it.
4:21 p.m. Lewis asks about Carmen telling detectives her memory was messed up and foggy. It’s in the transcript. Carmen says that’s correct. In the same interview, Carmen told detectives, “I bought pills for Kouri three times before Eric died.” Lewis asks if detectives came back later and told her that number isn’t correct – the last purchase happened after Eric died.
4:17 p.m. Lewis asks about Carmen leaving the drugs in the closet and the number of transactions. Lewis asks Carmen what date she left the pills in the Midway house. She doesn’t know the approximate date. Lewis asks what was in the Midway home when she put the pills in the closet. Carmen says it was pretty empty.
4:11 p.m. Lewis suggests that detectives put the idea of the fentanyl in Carmen’s head – that she didn’t deal with fentanyl. Carmen says no, they told her Eric died from fentanyl.
4:05 p.m. Lewis asks Carmen if she remembers being asked about M30s or Oxys. One of the detectives told her M30s was fentanyl, and she responded that she didn’t know much about fentanyl. Lewis asks if Kouri ever asked her to get her fentanyl. She did not, Lewis says. Carmen says she got Roxys from Susan but she could get fentanyl from Robert. Lewis asks about Kouri requesting the Michael Jackson drug. Carmen didn’t know what that was and looked it up. It was Propofol.
4:03 p.m. Defense pulls up a photo showing dark green pills. Carmen says the pills she got were lighter than the ones in the photo. We see an image of two pills on the screen. Lewis asks if the pills Carmen collected said anything on them. She doesn’t know.
4 p.m. Carmen says she was willing to do whatever it takes to get the truth out. She told detectives she needed a “blueprint” to lay out what happened. “I’ll do whatever it takes,” she said to investigators. The detectives told Carmen they would go to the prosecutor and try to work out a deal for her. One of the detectives asked Carmen to write down everything she could remember to help them out for the next meeting. She never did write everything out.
3:57 p.m. A portion of a video is played. It’s the detectives interviewing Carmen. We see the video. The investigators tell Carmen that the drug court is looking at giving her a 7-year sentence. The only exception they are willing to make is if Carmen gives up the details that ensure Kouri will get convicted of murder.
3:55 p.m. Lewis wants to play something for Carmen and the jury. Bloodworth objects. Judge asks attorneys to approach.
3:52 p.m. Lewis reminds Carmen that she told detectives she had a lot of memory problems and her memory isn’t the best. She confirms it. “A lot to process when you’re incarcerated,” she says. Carmen told investigators she had “fried her brain” using drugs. She has been using drugs since sixth grade.
3:51 p.m. Carmen told detectives she was going to fight hard to stay in drug court. The detectives told her they were on her side and as long as their relationship continued, they were there for her.
3:48 p.m. Lewis points to another part of the police interview transcript when Carmen told detectives in May 2023 she bought drugs once from Susan and twice from Robert. Today she testified that she bought drugs once from Susan and three times from Robert. Lewis asks about the contradiction. Carmen says it was a lot to process a few years ago.
3:46 p.m. Lewis points out, in a transcript of Carmen’s interview with police, that she told them she never did a hand-to-hand exchange with Kouri. But today she testified that she gave the pills directly to Kouri in her driveway. Carmen said the pills were $600 and she didn’t make any money off the deal. Lewis says that’s not a very good drug dealer. Carmen says she did it because Kouri was a friend.
3:45 p.m. Three years ago, Lewis points out that Carmen told detectives the money was left in the fire pit at the Midway home and then the pills were placed there. This contradicts what she said earlier – that the pills were left inside the Midway home.
3:42 p.m. Jury is back. Lewis continues to question. Asks to admit the docket from drug court. Lewis asks what Roxy 30s are. They are stronger Oxycodone pills. Lewis asks if they are 30 milligrams of Oxycodone. Carmen isn’t sure.
3:40 p.m. Judge is back on the bench. He reminds everyone in the courtroom that there can be no audible reactions to the evidence or events in the courtroom. “Sit, be still, no audible reactions to anything. If anyone is unable to follow this instruction, I’ll need you to step out.”
3:14 p.m. Lewis asking about roxys. They are pain pills. Prosecution mentions that we’ve been in questioning since 12:30. Judge suggests taking a break. We are in recess until 3:25 p.m.
3:11 p.m. Carmen told the detectives that Kouri asked her for help getting pills for her investor. Lewis asks Carmen about her learning disability. “Can you share what that is?” Carmen responds, “No.” Lewis tells her to answer the question. Judge says she needs to answer. She responds that she has a low education.
3:07 p.m. The detectives left and Carmen says it was a lot to process while she was incarcerated. Carmen was looking at a lot of prison time and was worried. The detectives come back on May 2 and bring a DEA agent with them. This time they tell her that she’s looking at more time because if you provide a drug to someone and they die, you’re looking at a minimum of 20 years in prison. The investigators told Carmen they could help her out.
3:04 p.m. Lewis asked about Carmen telling the detectives she wanted to get out of Utah and go to Las Vegas to visit her fiancé. Carmen says the judge let her go to Vegas before she started cooperating with investigators. The detectives asked Carmen for her help in the Richins investigation. She said she needed some time to think about it.
3 p.m. The detectives told Carmen they believe Kouri killed Eric and that he died of a fentanyl overdose. That was the first time Carmen heard from officers that Eric had died of an overdose. She had heard earlier from a work colleague that Eric died of an overdose and that’s when she called Kouri to ask if it was true. During Carmen’s meeting with detectives, she told them that she has never done fentanyl. She has a daughter who had a problem with heroin and fentanyl. Her daughter has overdosed but survived.
2:56 p.m. Lewis asks to admit the order to show cause court document. No objection. Judge allows it in. Carmen was arrested on April 26, 2023. The next day, two detectives showed up to talk with her. They told her they found a gun under her bed and her drug court is in jeopardy. She was looking at two 5 years-life sentences and one 0-5 year sentence if she was found guilty in drug court.
2:53 p.m. Carmen started getting better, but then was arrested for driving on a suspended license. Then an order to show cause was issued in drug court. She needed to go into drug court and explain what happened. The judge would then make a decision if she can remain in drug court or get kicked out.
2:50 p.m. Carmen was using the day she bought drugs from Susan Kohler, Lewis points out. Lewis points out other days when she tested positive. Lewis says the entire time she was picking up drugs in early 2022, she was high. “Not the whole time,” Carmen says. She admits she was using regularly.
2:47 p.m. Lewis lists several days when Carmen missed drug tests and was sanctioned in late 2021 and early 2022. On Jan. 28, 2022, she tested positive for meth. She asked to be retested. The next week, she admitted she used meth and relapsed. She said working with the cleaning company, she folded and lied. “That’s what addicts do,” Carmen says. Lewis responds, “Yes, addicts lie.” Carmen responds, “Active addicts.”
2:45 p.m. Lewis approaches the witness to point out the times Carmen missed therapy, drug tests and drug court. Carmen says some of the absences were due to the fact she was running behind for work.
2:42 p.m. A warrant was issued for Carmen and the next week, she tested positive for benzos three times. The most common benzodiazepines are prescription drugs like Valium, Xanax, Halcion, Ativan and Klonopin. Carmen missed therapy in November.
2:40 p.m. Lewis asks Carmen if she was struggling in drug court. Carmen says in the beginning she was. Carmen missed her group therapy and treatment a few days after she started drug court in September 2021. She had to pay a $40 fee for missing therapy. The next month, in October 2021, she failed to appear for drug court.
2:36 p.m. Carmen has not completed drug court. Lewis asks about the expectations from drug court. Go to treatment, call in every day, drug testing, be employed, show up every week for group therapy. Carmen started drug court in September 2021.
2:34 p.m. Lewis asks how many first-degree felonies Carmen has been arrested for. She isn’t sure. Lewis lists off the felony charges Carmen has faced. Then she lists misdemeanor charges. Lewis talks about the plea-in-advance deal Carmen got. The court holds the plea and if you successfully complete drug court, the charges will be dismissed.
2:33 p.m. Carmen also spoke with her best friend Nick. Lewis asks if she told Nick, “I don’t even remember. You’re going to have to help me.” Lewis asks Carmen if she has been diagnosed with any mental health problems. Carmen says no. “You sure?” She says, “Yes.” Lewis brings up anxiety and asks if she takes any medication for it. She says she’s not on anxiety medication.
2:31 p.m. Lewis asks if the prosecutors helped put together the pieces of her testimony. Carmen says she asked them for assistance. Lewis asks Carmen who else she has spoken to about her testimony in the case. “Nobody,” she says. Carmen then says she spoke with two detectives and a lady from the feds while she was in jail.
2:29 p.m. Lewis asks if she has met with prosecutors over the past few weeks. Carmen has. Lewis asks if they practiced her testimony with her. She says they didn’t really practice, but went over some questions. Lewis asks if they reviewed her answers with her. Carmen says they did. Lewis asks if the prosecutors corrected her if they thought her answer was wrong. “Not really, no,” she says. Lewis asks if they practiced cross-examination with her. “They kind of just brought up how you were going to bring up my past, how I was going to feel.”
2:27 p.m. Carmen always met with the detectives 3-4 times. Lewis asks if they would talk about her testimony. She says not about her testimony, but questions like where she was during certain times. Lewis asks if the conversations were recorded. Carmen isn’t 100% sure. Lewis asks Carmen if the detectives drove her places. She says they sometimes drove her to court. Lewis asks if they had conversations in the car. Carmen says no.
2:25 p.m. Lewis has large black binders that she gives to Carmen. They are transcripts of the interviews Carmen did with investigators. “Whoa, that’s a lot,” Carmen says. Lewis says that between April and May 2023, Carmen had seven interviews with the police. Correct. Lewis asks how many times she met with detectives after she got out of jail. “A couple.” She isn’t sure on the numbers because it was a while back.
2:23 p.m. Carmen has never done any other drug deals with Robert and has never been back to the Maverik in Draper. Robert hit her up later for drug deals and said his buddy had more if her friend wanted any. Carmen reached out to Kouri and said more was available if she needed any. “She said no, her investor had left town,” Carmen says. Bloodworth has nothing further. Defense attorney Wendy Lewis will now question Carmen.
2:21 p.m. Robert came out of the townhouse with a baggie of round dark blue pills. Nick and Carmen left. He dropped Carmen off at her house. She texted Kouri and asked what she wanted Carmen to do with the pills. Kouri told her to take the pills to the Midway house. She put the pills in the closet.
2:18 p.m. Carmen went to the bank to deposit the check. Her account was in the negative. She deposited $300 and took out $1,000 cash. We see the receipt on the screen. Nick and Carmen then drove down Provo Canyon to pick up the drugs. She texted Robert but it was taking a while so she and Nick stopped at thrift stores. They eventually ended up at Maverik in Draper. They waited and Robert left for 20 minutes. He came back. He said his friend wasn’t answering the door. They followed Robert down the road to a duplex. They waited and Carmen said she wanted to leave.
2:16 p.m. Bloodworth moves to admit the check Kouri wrote to Carmen. It’s for $1,300 and was written on March 6, 2022. In the memo section it says, “construction clean Midway.” Bloodworth asks Carmen if Kouri owed her any money for cleaning or anything else. She did not. “I never cleaned a house ever in my life for $1,300.”
2:11 p.m. Back in the courtroom. Judge reminds Carmen to speak clearly into the microphone. The text exchange is now displayed. One of the texts is from Kouri to Carmen, “Still have your hook up?” Carmen said she could reach out to Robert. She responded, “Ok.” Kouri told Carmen that the investor would leave money under the doormat of Kouri’s Kamas home so Carmen could pay for the drugs. Nick picked Carmen up and went to Kouri’s house to pick up the cash. There was nothing under the doormats. Carmen rang the doorbell and Kouri told her to come inside. Carmen told her the money wasn’t there and Kouri asked if she could write Carmen a check. Kouri then wrote her a check.
LIVE UPDATES | Day 4 of Kouri Richins murder trial - East Idaho News
Kouri Richins, a Utah mother of three boys, is accused of fatally poisoning her husband, Eric Richins, in 2022. She is on trial in Summit County, Utah, on charges of aggravated murder, attempted aggravated murder, insurance fraud and forgery. Today is the fourth day of the trial. It is scheduled...
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I thought trial was from Mondays thru Thursdays.... I guess not.
Friday, February 27th:
*Trial continues (Day 5) (@ 8:30am MT) - UT - Eric Eugene Richins (39) poisoned with a lethal dose of fentanyl by wife on Mar. 3, 2022 in Kamas. - *Kouri Darden Richins (33/now 35) arrested (5/8/23) & charged (6/5/23) & arraigned (8/27/24) with 2nd degree aggravated murder & 3 counts of possession of drugs with intent to distribute. [These charges were dismissed on 3/25/24-see recharges]. *Re-charged (3/25/24) with 1 count of 1st degree criminal homicide aggravated murder (DV), 2 counts of 2nd degree distribution of a controlled substance [charges dismissed 11/12/24], 1 count of attempted aggravated urder, 2 counts of 2nd degree mortgage fraud (Iron Bridge Financial & Boomerang Finance), 2 counts of 2nd degree insurance fraud & 2 counts of 3rd degree forgery. Plead not guilty (8/27/24). Held without bond. Bond denied (6/12/23). Bond denied (11/18/25). DA will not seek DP (2/20/26).
*Charged (6/27/25) with 5 counts of mortgage fraud, 5 counts of forgery, 7 counts of issuing a bad check, 7 counts of money laundering, 1 count of communications fraud & 1 count of a pattern of unlawful activity. 3rd Judicial District Court Summit County
Jury selection began on 2/10/26 & ended on 2/11/26. Jury consists of 8 jurors [2 women & 6 men] & 4 alternates. [4 women].
Murder Trial began on 2/23/26 [thru 3/26/26]. Court in session from Mondays to Thursdays.
Third District Court Summit County Judge Richard Mrazik presiding. Prosecutors Lindsay Chervenask, Fred Burmester & Summit County Deputy Attorney Brad Bloodworth & Defense attorneys Kathy Nester & Wendy Lewis & Alex Ramos.
Case & court info from 6/5/23 thru 2/2/26 & Jury Selection Day 1-2 (2/10-2/11//26) & thru 2/18/26 r& Trial Day 1-3 (2/23-2/25/26) reference post #1332 here:
https://www.websleuths.com/forums/t...ted-death-last-year-may-2023-3.711978/page-67
2/26/26 Thursday, Trial Day 4: State witnesses: Chelsea Gipson [lead crime scene tech. She oversaw the crime scene evidence room at the Sheriff's Dept.] back on stand for cross. Dr. Brianna Lynn Peterson [forensic toxicologist with NNMS Labs]. Summit County Sheriff's Office Detective Frank Root. [Prosecutor Lindsay Chervenak asks about an iPhone 7 collected from a man named Robert Josh Grossman [believed to be Kouri's bf]. Root says he did collect a phone. He collected 2 phones]. Cheney Eng-Tow [digital laboratory technician for Dept. of Public Safety Bureau of Forensic Services; obtained raw data from phones using Cellebrite technology]. Bryan Holden [with the Utah Bureau of Forensic Services in the Utah State Crime Lab]. Carmen Lauber [Kouri’s former housekeeper]. Lauber will return for cross. Trial continues on Friday, 2/27/26.
Friday, February 27th:
*Trial continues (Day 5) (@ 8:30am MT) - UT - Eric Eugene Richins (39) poisoned with a lethal dose of fentanyl by wife on Mar. 3, 2022 in Kamas. - *Kouri Darden Richins (33/now 35) arrested (5/8/23) & charged (6/5/23) & arraigned (8/27/24) with 2nd degree aggravated murder & 3 counts of possession of drugs with intent to distribute. [These charges were dismissed on 3/25/24-see recharges]. *Re-charged (3/25/24) with 1 count of 1st degree criminal homicide aggravated murder (DV), 2 counts of 2nd degree distribution of a controlled substance [charges dismissed 11/12/24], 1 count of attempted aggravated urder, 2 counts of 2nd degree mortgage fraud (Iron Bridge Financial & Boomerang Finance), 2 counts of 2nd degree insurance fraud & 2 counts of 3rd degree forgery. Plead not guilty (8/27/24). Held without bond. Bond denied (6/12/23). Bond denied (11/18/25). DA will not seek DP (2/20/26).
*Charged (6/27/25) with 5 counts of mortgage fraud, 5 counts of forgery, 7 counts of issuing a bad check, 7 counts of money laundering, 1 count of communications fraud & 1 count of a pattern of unlawful activity. 3rd Judicial District Court Summit County
Jury selection began on 2/10/26 & ended on 2/11/26. Jury consists of 8 jurors [2 women & 6 men] & 4 alternates. [4 women].
Murder Trial began on 2/23/26 [thru 3/26/26]. Court in session from Mondays to Thursdays.
Third District Court Summit County Judge Richard Mrazik presiding. Prosecutors Lindsay Chervenask, Fred Burmester & Summit County Deputy Attorney Brad Bloodworth & Defense attorneys Kathy Nester & Wendy Lewis & Alex Ramos.
Case & court info from 6/5/23 thru 2/2/26 & Jury Selection Day 1-2 (2/10-2/11//26) & thru 2/18/26 r& Trial Day 1-3 (2/23-2/25/26) reference post #1332 here:
https://www.websleuths.com/forums/t...ted-death-last-year-may-2023-3.711978/page-67
2/26/26 Thursday, Trial Day 4: State witnesses: Chelsea Gipson [lead crime scene tech. She oversaw the crime scene evidence room at the Sheriff's Dept.] back on stand for cross. Dr. Brianna Lynn Peterson [forensic toxicologist with NNMS Labs]. Summit County Sheriff's Office Detective Frank Root. [Prosecutor Lindsay Chervenak asks about an iPhone 7 collected from a man named Robert Josh Grossman [believed to be Kouri's bf]. Root says he did collect a phone. He collected 2 phones]. Cheney Eng-Tow [digital laboratory technician for Dept. of Public Safety Bureau of Forensic Services; obtained raw data from phones using Cellebrite technology]. Bryan Holden [with the Utah Bureau of Forensic Services in the Utah State Crime Lab]. Carmen Lauber [Kouri’s former housekeeper]. Lauber will return for cross. Trial continues on Friday, 2/27/26.
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