GUILTY UT - Michele MacNeill, 50, found dead in bathtub, Pleasant Grove, 11 April 2007 - #1

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Ray_of_hope said:
I believe the judge will rule at 8:30 am per another poster above.
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After watching the defense attorney today with Rachel I hate for her to question Ada. I hope she is a bit nicer to her since she is a child. And has gone through so much. jmo
 
mck16 said:
After watching the defense attorney today with Rachel I hate for her to question Ada. I hope she is a bit nicer to her since she is a child. And has gone through so much. jmo
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:truce:

I don't think the defense attorney was too bad. At times, she would start a question by saying something like "ok let's move on....", and Rachel would say, "is that a question"? So I think it kind of went back and forth both ways. And IMO it wasn't the questions that were confusing, it was that Rachel was a bit flustered, and so the defense lady would have to keep repeating something over and over again, such as "look at page 28."

:truce:
 
scorekeeper said:
I finally finished watching the afternoon session for yesterday.

The cop that testified.....again issues with the clothes.....who knows and does it really matter?

Also the amount of liquid that was expelled from MM (around 3 to 4 cups first time; around 3 cups second time with some froth)......does this possibly mean she drowned or was held under water?

Was he asked if MM had mucus on her face? I didn't hear that question/answer if asked.

Then now also back to the issue of her being wet....also he thought MM's hair was soaked/wet. And her body was wet.

I have to believe (hope) that the Pros will tie everything up for us with a big red bow.

Thanks to all that posted regarding the afternoon session!
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For those of you I see trying to keep up on HLN, I will reiterate what I saw another poster say- that wildabouttrial.com has a daily live stream.

Also archives of the past days in this trial video. I highly recommend. No commercials!


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Wow. Today was very emotional. I thought the defense attorney came across as just mean sometimes.

I told you I was going to try and make it to the trial this Friday well I forgot I will be going out of town and I am traveling tomorrow.

Hopefully there are members and readers here from Seward Nebraska because that is where I will be this Saturday with Marc Klaas and the KlaasKids Print-A-Thon.

This is where parents bring their kids and we fingerprint them, give the parents DNA kits and Marc can talk to them and advise them on how to keep their kids safe.

The KlaasKids Print-A-Thon Team will be at:
Scribners Martial Arts International
1053 South Street
Seward, NE 68434
This Saturday 10:00 am until 2:00 PM. I would love to meet you.

Sorry to get off topic. I shall ban myself after this post. :scared:

Also next week I should be able to make it down to the courthouse. Luckily my schedule changed and I have a couple of days off in the week now for the next while.

If there are any other Wasatch Front members who want to meet up and go to the trial just email me tgrif@xmission.com

Take care,
Tricia
 
I have a good friend who suffers from an anxiety disorder. Sometimes it is more in control than others. When she gets really stressed about something she acts just like Rachel did today. The trembling, the "antsiness", the speech "halts", even the hand gestures when trying to explain herself and how she feels. (I will often "let her vent" and assist her in calming herself down.)

On the overall, I think Rachel did well. She was obviously suffering greatly at a few times. I could see her taking in a breath and then blowing it out - as I'm sure she has been taught to do as a calming mechanism.

Anyone who has been around someone who suffers from an anxiety related disorder likely knows what was going on with this poor woman today. It is not that she wasn't "properly prepared" as a witness. Actually, she was just fine as a witness to the extent she could be.

The defense attorney kept "crowding her" at the witness stand. At one point when Rachel was taking her time reading a lengthy email, the defense attorney was standing close to Rachel, staring hard at her, and drumming her fingers on the countertop. Several times the judge ordered the attorney to return to the podium. I think he saw what was going on. And I hope the jury did too.

"Delusions" and "psychosis": Psychosis is a diagnosis. A delusion is a symptom - of psychosis. Another term for delusion is a "fixed false belief". So if you tell an ER doc that you think people are following you, he may well write down that you are delusional. If it later turns out that your ex-boyfriend has been stalking you for the past 3 months, well that ER doc was wrong, wasn't he?

In order to label what a patient tells you as a delusion, one needs to KNOW that it is not true. So if they say "I'm Jesus Christ" or "I'm Napoleon", it is just not true. But if they say "someone is stealing from me" or "my father killed my mother" - hmmmmm....

I do wonder what happened to Rachel that led her to go to the ER. She went voluntarily, obviously knowing she needed help at that moment. So she sounds pretty in touch with her own illness. I hope it wasn't the father threatening to "destroy" the daughters.

Will any of the stuff about the defendant's past mental health issues come into the trial, I wonder?

------------

I wanted to send condolences and to thank those who have lost loved ones who have described "the fog" after the death and that it lasted for a long time. I had it too after the death of my husband for at least a year. And I never really discussed it. I did not realize that it must be more common than I thought it was.
 
I want to thank Thundar for her transcriptions yesterday!!!

:tyou::tyou:
 
Hi kids, you were all busy today! I watched Rachel testify just now. God bless her heart. I LOVED her. Specially how she completely got defense counsel to lose her sh11111t. Color me lol'ing.

Looking forward tomorrow's testimony.

I've missed hanging out with you, but had errands and then work got cray-cray.

Promise to be here early tomorrow, with :coffeecup: for all!
 
The more I think about it, the more I think Rachel's testimony is going to be a strong one against MM.

- She was a daddy's girl growing up, looking at facts she's on mother's side
- Her emotions only add to the disgust she feels towards her father and how difficult it is to think about these things
- There's so much more to gather from her testimony - read between the lines!!
- The def looked desperate in their efforts to discredit her with the money talk, bipolar/delusional/psychotic etc.
- The way Rachel explains how she came to meet Gypsy/Gillian reveals exactly how calculation and premeditated MM is. I think this is one of the most important points to take from the testimony.

Rachel is a smart woman. I sometimes got the feeling she said a little more than she was asked just to have said it. You can't take the word back once it's said.

Oh, I wish I was a juror in this case :)

BTW; does anyone know where I can watch the full Nancy Grace from last night? I really want to see the interview with Michele's friend - the one who talked about MM's depictions of childhood with a prostitute mom.
 
Please take time to read the affidavit in support of arrest warrant for MM. It is absolutely shocking and gives a lot of information. The opening itself (point 3) is a bombshell, with statements from Anna Osbourne, whom had an affair with MM:

- in 2006 told her psychiatrist she had an affair with a serial killer
- MM told her he had attempted to kill his mother
- MM told her he had killer his brother Rufus because he was embarrassment to family
- Martin also told Anna he wanted to kill his daughter Vanessa because she was an embarrassment to the family because of her drug abuse
- Martin offered to kill Anna's husband to relieve her from abuse relationship
- MM admitted to having done "mercy killings" on handicapped patients
- told her about specific method to do so; the patients dying of heart attack had heightened levels of potassium in their blood. A toxicology report of Michels blood showed elevated levels of potassium.

http://cdn-static.wildabouttrial.co.../Affidavit-in-support-of-arrest-warrant-2.pdf

It's crazy and worst of all; I believe everything!
 
Norwegian said:
The more I think about it, the more I think Rachel's testimony is going to be a strong one against MM.

- She was a daddy's girl growing up, looking at facts she's on mother's side
- Her emotions only add to the disgust she feels towards her father and how difficult it is to think about these things
- There's so much more to gather from her testimony - read between the lines!!
- The def looked desperate in their efforts to discredit her with the money talk, bipolar/delusional/psychotic etc.
- The way Rachel explains how she came to meet Gypsy/Gillian reveals exactly how calculation and premeditated MM is. I think this is one of the most important points to take from the testimony.

Rachel is a smart woman. I sometimes got the feeling she said a little more than she was asked just to have said it. You can't take the word back once it's said.

Oh, I wish I was a juror in this case :)

BTW; does anyone know where I can watch the full Nancy Grace from last night? I really want to see the interview with Michele's friend - the one who talked about MM's depictions of childhood with a prostitute mom.
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:seeya: Great post. The BBM part, I don't think helps the prosecution any. People sometimes blame innocent parties for a death, especially if they didn't treat the person very well in life. I also don't think showing a bias against the accused ever helps. jmo I think she had a hard time not showing how she really feels about him after everything has come to light. She did a great job and like the coffee-bean said, I LOVED her too.
 
Good morning, I'm going to start a new thread soon just to give you a heads up.
 
Good morning all! I am still recuperating from Rachel's excellent testimony. She had crucial evidence for the jury no one else had, such as the bloody mess in the garage. The rest of her testimony will be corroborated by her sister, Alexis, and possibly others who were in the house.

Her treatment by the defense attorney, whose name I shall not say, was deplorable. However, Rachel was able to get beyond the emotional turmoil that was deliberately provoked to show she is very intelligent and certainly knows her facts.

And, OMG! The defense attorney, whose name I will not say, actually impeached her testimony! Rachel said "sick" at one point and "recuperating" on the stand! She's such a liar!

Remember, impeachment means that the witness has changed the story!

A good impeachment would be when a witness said at an interview that the defendant was with her at the time of the crime and never owned a gun. Then, on the stand, the witness turns around and says that the defendant wasn't with her and he, indeed, owned a 45 automatic.

It bears repeating here that all the impeachment the defense is bringing up is to look for extremely minor variations in language between some distant testimony and the current trial.

Also, to end a too-long-post, let's remember that after Michelle died, Martin changed his will, leaving each child a technical $1 and the remainder of his estate went to Gypsy, along with his attempt to put the marital home in her name to avoid probate.

Heh... they both did prison time for that last bit.
 
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