GUILTY UT - Michele MacNeill, 50, found dead in bathtub, Pleasant Grove, 11 April 2007 - #4

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turaj said:
I don't think Michelle was in any position to make any phone calls so just how did he know. Wonder if prosecution will go there on rebuttal. It is too bad that so much time passed and they would not allow Ada on the stand.
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I don't think she made that call either, I hope they will pick up on this! Great sleuthing friends!
 
Just a thought....do you think maybe Martin drowned her leaning over the tub and then gave her all those meds via enema? I am sure she did not take those on her own or willingly. I think he knew his time was getting short when he found out she was going to pick Ada up from school. I think he slipped home, drowned and drugged her and then ran back to work for his award and alibi.
 
Italy said:
Prosecution needs to address Martin's story about the position of Michelle's body - which MM described (and demonstrated) as being found slumped over the side of tub in a face down position when Ada discovered her. Why would he so blatantly lie about that? Every witness has claimed otherwise. It seemingly does not make sense. But it does if you think timeline.

I think what happened was that the body WAS in that position described by Martin at some point. Shortly after he gives her an incapacitating drug overdose of CNS depressants - Ambien, Percoccet, Oxycodone, Phenergan - (or potassium as others have speculated) - and she is completely unable to function, he finalizes the murder by leaning her unconscious body face forward into a tub of water resulting in death by drowning.

He is a doctor, he knows that lividity (& the white pressure blotches) will set in within 1/2 - 1 hour and that will screw up his timeline. So, before he leaves the house to have his photo take or to collect Ada, and before significant lividity can appear, he pushes her all the way into the bathtub onto her back (not noticing that her head is in the unusual position of being under the faucet). Moving a body (especially turning it over) within the first hour or two can mitigate/*advertiser censored* the presence of lividity. He knows this.

He has concocted such an elaborate lie (which makes remembering every small detail very difficult), that he inadvertently tells & demonstrates to Alexis, and later Rachel, that he and Ada found Michelle's body slumped over the edge of the tub - face down into the water. We know this to be inaccurate based on Ada's statements as well as testimony from the two neighbors called into the house by Ada. MM's statement is indisputably wrong & the question is why would he lie about that.

Everything he has done - including the early call to Alexis from the clinic phone expressing his concern for Michelle - was done to establish a timeline that exonerates him. According to MM, he was at the Health Fair getting his picture taken when death supposedly occurred. Everything about his defense is an attempt to muddy the timeline and to give him an alibi.

With respect to the drugs, I suspect he substituted Oxycodone and other narcotics for the normally prescribed Premarin, antibiotics & hypertension drugs as a means to convince Michelle to take an overdose.

Son Damian and girlfriend would not recognize the proper shape/color of pills from the various prescriptions so the whole "inventory of pills" was a ruse to cover his tracks in the event that the girlfriend or Damian happened to accurately remember that there remained x number of pills in the antibiotic (or another) bottle. Flushing them down the toilet eliminated the possibility of tests to determine exactly what each pill truly was.

The fatal flaw in his twisted plot is his statement about the position of Michelle's body upon discovery by Ada.
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Oh good post !A friend and I have been trying to figure out how he got her to take the drugs....never even thought of this scenario !
 
5 Things to Know about Utah doctor murder trial

The Washington Post - Washington, D.C.
By Associated Press

Updated: Monday, November 4, 6:46 PM

Snipped:

THE DEFENSE

On the defense witness list is a doctor who believes Michele MacNeill died of a blood clot, and an expert who will testify how people can acquire faulty memories over time. Also on the list — even though the lawyers haven’t definitely revealed who they will call — are police investigators who wrongly suspected two people in another murder case based on perceived odd behavior, according to court documents.

Read more:

http://www.washingtonpost.com/natio...3c44c8-45b3-11e3-95a9-3f15b5618ba8_story.html
 
Inmates to testify in Martin MacNeill trial

Posted on: 11:19 am, November 4, 2013, by CNN Wire

FOX13 - Salt Lake City, UT

(CNN) — Four inmates who served time with Martin MacNeill, the former doctor on trial for the death of his wife, are expected to take the stand in the coming days as the fourth week of the murder trial begins Tuesday.

These former cellmates, who will be identified by numbers and not names, say MacNeill told them he killed his wife and he didn’t think law enforcement would be able to prove it.

Prosecutors spent the third week of testimony trying to show the former Utah doctor had a motive to kill his wife, who was drowned in the bathtub, according to their medical experts.

Read more:

http://fox13now.com/2013/11/04/inmates-to-testify-in-martin-macneill-trial/
 
http://www.hlntv.com/article/2013/11/03/martin-macneill-trial-secrets-sexual-abuse
HLNTV - CNN -- Updated 12:01 PM EST, Mon November 04, 2013

MacNeill trial secrets: 3 things jurors won't hear

Snipped:

What jurors didn't hear from Walthall, however, are some additional statements she claims MacNeill made to her: That he tried to kill his mother when he was 8 years old, that he killed his brother by drowning him and that he offered to kill her husband.
 
CUCKOOHEAD said:
Thank you for the reply Zuri but what I was saying was that even though Michele was drugged/unconscious the body still fights for survival. I believe Michele's body fought maybe not as much as Mac (in One Flew... and Mac didn't fight like he would have if he was still functioning) but enough perhaps to twist her head in attempts to get air and not water and in the process opened suture marks that were very new giving the bloody water in the tub. Ada said her mom's eyes were open. If you are unconscious aren't your eyes closed?
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Actually, not necessarily. Eyes must be taped closed during surgery to protect them, as if they stay open, they can become damaged from lack of moisture or from foreign matter. They can also stay open once deceased, so Michele may or may not have been already dead when Ada first saw her. :cry:
 
There is misinformation and lack of facts in this story. Very poor reporting IMO.

Ann-Tx said:
5 Things to Know about Utah doctor murder trial

The Washington Post - Washington, D.C.
By Associated Press

Updated: Monday, November 4, 6:46 PM

Snipped:

THE DEFENSE

On the defense witness list is a doctor who believes Michele MacNeill died of a blood clot, and an expert who will testify how people can acquire faulty memories over time. Also on the list — even though the lawyers haven’t definitely revealed who they will call — are police investigators who wrongly suspected two people in another murder case based on perceived odd behavior, according to court documents.

Read more:

http://www.washingtonpost.com/natio...3c44c8-45b3-11e3-95a9-3f15b5618ba8_story.html
Click to expand...
 
turaj said:
just listened to Trisha from a couple of weeks ago...one person on there said that the defense lawyers were well known in the area and took this case "pro bono". Anyone else hear that? Does not really make sense.
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:laughcry::lol::lol:---------
Hi, Maybe one lawyer to another? Maybe one of them needs medical care.
:lol: :laughcry:
 
The question I still struggle with is how did MM get that many drugs into Michele. IMO, the liquid Loritab was a key drug for his plan. Could he have put it in her food or drink? I really do not believe she took any of them willingly or with any knowledge.

Any thoughts?
 
Michele's case was not treated as a potential homicide from day one.
As far as I am concerned, the police and the coroner were completely inept.
None of them were looking for anything suspicious.
Martin could have crushed, dissolved and delivered all of these drugs by injection. Maybe several times.
Or, he could have pulverized them and fed them to her. Remember how Michele told her daughter how sweet and caring he was being to her (just hours before her death).

I can just picture him saying "honey, I've made you breakfast in bed" "You just relax and get better, I'll pick Ada up from school, take her out to McDonalds for lunch, don't worry about a thing, I've got the morning off", I don't need to go to the awards ceremony, its just a small thing. I just want you to know how beautiful you are. I'll bring home something for you to eat, when Ada and I come home".
Michele was hopefull that Martin's affair with Gypsy would stop, if she would be beautiful to him again.

I have no doubt that he even expressed this to her, in order for her to adhere to his quickened timeline for her cosmetic surgery, even though she wanted to postpone the surgery while she tried to shed a few pounds.

In my opinion, this case is all about good and evil.
Unfortunately, no matter the old wives, or bible tales- Good Does Not always triumph evil.
There is no doubt in my mind that the bogus doctor, bogus lawyer, bogus family man is evil.
There is also no doubt in my mind that Michele was a loving Mother, friend, and Companion.
There is also no doubt in my mind that our American Judicial System favors the accused over the Victim.

I hope Martin MacNeill is convicted of the first degree murder of his wife and the Mother of his children.
But, I doubt that will happen.
For all of the loved one's of Michele- You've done great good as you've walked this journey.
It may be hard to realize for awhile. I commend all of you. No matter what happens, YOU are GOOD!
I'm pretty sure you've already noticed this-but look at Martin's face. A once handsome man.
He is ravaged. His true character is front and forward. He's downright scary. For the whole world to see.
I am praying for the Jury to see this man for what he really is.
However, our judicial system is not allowing this jury to see who he really is. That does, and will always makes me furious.
In my opinion, previous offences should stand the light of day.
ALL of them.
They tell a story.
I am praying. For Justice. For your beautiful Mother, and for All of you.







mytime said:
The question I still struggle with is how did MM get that many drugs into Michele. IMO, the liquid Loritab was a key drug for his plan. Could he have put it in her food or drink? I really do not believe she took any of them willingly or with any knowledge.

Any thoughts?
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Nore said:
----------
Hi Bravo, from the start I have thought he didnt want the children either. I feel he just went along with Michele. No loving father would treat his children as he does. He only loves himself and his priorities..Gypsy tried to get her daughter back but didnt. I think she is now happy the way she is. IMO.
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Hey there :seeya: Agree. I think the Children were nothing more than window dressing for Martin. Likely happy Michele was so busy with so many Children she wouldn't have time to cue in to his dark side. Thankfully Gypsy does not have her Daughter.
 
mytime said:
The question I still struggle with is how did MM get that many drugs into Michele. IMO, the liquid Loritab was a key drug for his plan. Could he have put it in her food or drink? I really do not believe she took any of them willingly or with any knowledge.

Any thoughts?
Click to expand...

I agree. I believe the drugs were in her food. Michele was already suspicious. Supported by the fact that she asked Alexis to let her feel the pills so she knew what Martin was giving her.
 
So much time has passed since this crime occurred and it's mishandling sure doesn't help :banghead: I hope he is found guilty. If he isn't I will respect the Jurors decision. In this case. Even tho I wont like it. Trying to get caught up here. I was away early yesterday until late last eve. Looking forward to a chill day here with you folks :seeya:
 
Was it a noon start today? TIA. EST that is.
 
Someone above mentioned the liquid drug that martin insisted on...and as I remember unless you are a child or have some serious swallow issues it was an unusual request but of course Dr. Thompson just went with it...again professional courtesy? He needed that to get the stuff into her through food or drink and bet it was all used the morning of April 11th.
 
turaj said:
Someone above mentioned the liquid drug that martin insisted on...and as I remember unless you are a child or have some serious swallow issues it was an unusual request but of course Dr. Thompson just went with it...again professional courtesy? He needed that to get the stuff into her through food or drink and bet it was all used the morning of April 11th.
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Made me think! There was no mention of remnants of the liquid drug at all. Damien and his gf counted, tossed the pills. What happened to ALL the liquid Lortab and its container?
 
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