VA - 6-YEAR-OLD in custody after shooting teacher, Newport News, Jan 2023 *mom charged* #2

[mooseandcoffee]

I know we have been there before but this doesn't make sense. It sounds like he has not been evaluated by the Student Support Team (which must be the same as what is called a Child Study Team elsewhere?). Without that evaluation, he has no access to special services. A child with this kind of history would normally be referred for an evaluation as soon as the need for one becomes obvious. And that clearly happened in Kindergarten already. So the question is why not. Either the mother must have refused or the school district is trying to save money and avoided an evaluation which likely would led to the boy requiring extensive (costly) services.
That would also raise the question if the school district was negligent in either avoiding an evaluation or letting the kid continue in regular school with the mother refusing an evaluation. I wonder what the due process is when parents refuse an evaluation. Is the school district obliged to keep the child on?

It's public school. The parents can refuse an evaluation and unless the kiddo is expelled, they will stay at the school.

 

[AngTxGal]

Attorneys representing the former assistant principal of Richneck Elementary School are asking a judge to dismiss the lawsuit filed against her and other educators by a teacher who was shot by a 6-year-old student. The attorneys argue that the teacher was shot in the course of doing her job, so her injuries should be covered by Virginia’s Workers’ Compensation Act.

Allegedly warned about student with gun, Richneck admin asks judge to dismiss lawsuit

NEWPORT NEWS, Va. (WAVY) – Attorneys representing the former assistant principal of Richneck Elementary School are asking a judge to dismiss the lawsuit filed against her and other educators by a t…

www.wavy.com

It seems that worker‘s compensation prevents an employee’s boss from responsibility for decisions made that put an employee’s life in danger?

That doesn’t seem right!?

What are the school’s policies regarding how to act in the event of a suspected gun on campus? There likely is a policy, just not written for an elementary school.

JMO

 

[airportwoman]

So very sorry to hear, my late niece in addition to FAS had CF, which ended her, she also had what doctors called sexually precocious behavior, her Mom lived on the street, an addict and we have no idea what our little niece was subjected to until she went into foster with my SIL. Hope you are doing well Emilia. (((Emilia)))

What's CF?

 

[AngTxGal]

The school district is not going to willingly accept any responsibility. Will this fall under workers comp? Maybe. But I think there are enough egregious actions and inactions to get outside WC. But a government entity can still come forward and say it blew it, it will work with work comp to see what is covered and then go beyond that to help out. But that requires actual leadership from government. That seems rare these days. To claim that kids with guns (elementary kids) is just part of being a teacher these days is insane. What they need to say is, well having totally incompetent and corrupt administrators is just part of being a teacher now days, so......."

I seriously doubt a public school teacher has wording in their contract that says something like…
“duty to protect students from other students or intruders with guns”
is part of the job duties of a school teacher.

So, this may be the first case to contest what actually is legally the responsibilities of a teacher in the event of a child, student, or intruder with a gun.

What a teacher does in this situation won’t change… they don’t run, they don’t protect themselves, they willingly put themselves in the path of danger to save their students.

It isn’t school admin that comes forward as a hero in these school shooting situations- it is the teacher.

So while we are revising how we handle school safety, let’s put the teachers in charge of their own safety, and the safety of the students. They will make choices for the best interest of the safety of students.

JMO

 

[iamshadow21]

What's CF?

I assume, as I am not OP, that CF means Cystic Fibrosis.

MOO

 

[AngTxGal]

It's public school. The parents can refuse an evaluation and unless the kiddo is expelled, they will stay at the school.

And therefore, if a parent refuses to have a child evaluated and that child is causing harm to other students in the classroom, and the school has no plan or actions they can take to remove the child-
It means the teacher and students have no choice but to be subjected to the actions of an unruly child.

Anyone see the problem here, the unruly child is controlling the fate of the other students and the teacher in the classroom, all the while the teacher‘s authority is being undermined at the same time pressured by their admin to do an already challenging job.

JMO

 

[PrairieWind]

And therefore, if a parent refuses to have a child evaluated and that child is causing harm to other students in the classroom, and the school has no plan or actions they can take to remove the child-
It means the teacher and students have no choice but to be subjected to the actions of an unruly child.

Anyone see the problem here, the unruly child is controlling the fate of the other students and the teacher in the classroom, all the while the teacher‘s authority is being undermined at the same time pressured by their admin to do an already challenging job.

JMO

Unfortunately this is often the case. A disruptive child keeps a class on eggshells and there is nothing that either can be done or will be done. Kids are traumatized right in their classrooms every day by these kids.

 

[mooseandcoffee]

And therefore, if a parent refuses to have a child evaluated and that child is causing harm to other students in the classroom, and the school has no plan or actions they can take to remove the child-
It means the teacher and students have no choice but to be subjected to the actions of an unruly child.

Anyone see the problem here, the unruly child is controlling the fate of the other students and the teacher in the classroom, all the while the teacher‘s authority is being undermined at the same time pressured by their admin to do an already challenging job.

JMO

I'm not saying I agree with it. I'm saying that parents cannot be forced into having their child evaluated. Clearly these parents were in denial about their son's issues and behaviors.

There should have been a plan in place, beyond having the family members serve as aides in the school.

 

[Rolypolyoly]

After catching up here, I've noticed that not many posters want to try and understand the struggle this little boy faced everyday. He obviously has something going on that means his brain is wired differently and he needs a whole lot of help. He may have ADHD, he may have something else, or ADHD and another co-morbid condition, but he clearly doesn't see the world the way someone neurotypical does, and his perception of events do matter, the way he felt drove his actions, and just because we can logically sit here and say that AZ had a class of 30 kids that needed her attention, and she was probably busy with the class, a 6yr old doesn't see it that way, they don't understand that what they have to say, or what they need has to wait. 6yrs old is still so young, empathy and awareness of other people's needs isn't anywhere near developed enough for in the moment thinking, and for a neurodiverse child with poor emotional regulation, possibly at a much younger developmental stage than their actual age, with impulse control issues, it's even harder.

Obviously I'm not excusing bringing a gun to school and shooting his teacher, although I dont believe for a second he had any real concept of his actions in the long term, we are all looking at it through an adult lens, and he absolutely should have not been alone without 1:1 help in that classroom, but some of the words used to describe this little boy in this thread really are awful. He is just a little boy and he needs help and empathy, not labelled a psychopathic monster who needs locking up.

As an aside, I have also noticed that everyone has seemingly ignored one thing, one of the incidents described a lot in articles has been the smashing of the cell phone, which of course is wrong and not saying it isn't, and I'm not blaming AZ for what happened to her, or excusing the little boys actions at all, but nobody jus asked why AZ was on her phone in class? Why she told him to go and sit down when he was speaking to her and she continued to do something with her phone whilst he was asking for her attention?. Why does she even have a cell phone in the classroom? That's not allowed in my kids school, or the school that I worked in, not even switched off in a bag or pocket during school hours for safeguarding reasons.

Anyhow, if this is true of the phone breaking incident, I can see why the boy was frustrated and felt ignored, and for a child with emotional dysregulation and impulse control that can escalate in seconds. Again, not an excuse, but a reason, and then he was suspended for the incident, and now you have an angry and emotional little boy who only feels the injustice of his punishment, because in his mind he needed her attention and she dismissed him, that made him feel bad and he lashed out, but he can't explain how he felt, and why he lashed out, and he doesn't understand why he was the bad guy when he just wanted to talk to her, and so the escalation, the "revenge" came. He isn't emotionally mature enough to understand any of it.

A quick Google of levelling behaviour and rejection sensitive dysphoria may be helpful to understand what I mean.

AZ absolutely did not deserve what happened to her, niether did the other children in that class, or any of the other people that have been on the end of this little boys violence, they were all failed because this little boy was failed.

My post is about reasons, not excuses. I hope I've managed to convey that, it's hard to do so without it seeming to be on one side or the other.

 

[escape2sc]

@Rolypolyoly Excellent post ! I agree 100% ! IMO It is horrendous to refer to any 6 year old - regardless of mental or behavioral issues - the way this little boy has been referred to here. I am not excusing his actions and the teacher certainly did not deserve to be shot or his classmates traumatized but this little boy deserved to have parents and the other adults in his life fiercely advocating for his well being.

 

[AngTxGal]

After catching up here, I've noticed that not many posters want to try and understand the struggle this little boy faced everyday. He obviously has something going on that means his brain is wired differently and he needs a whole lot of help. He may have ADHD, he may have something else, or ADHD and another co-morbid condition, but he clearly doesn't see the world the way someone neurotypical does, and his perception of events do matter, the way he felt drove his actions, and just because we can logically sit here and say that AZ had a class of 30 kids that needed her attention, and she was probably busy with the class, a 6yr old doesn't see it that way, they don't understand that what they have to say, or what they need has to wait. 6yrs old is still so young, empathy and awareness of other people's needs isn't anywhere near developed enough for in the moment thinking, and for a neurodiverse child with poor emotional regulation, possibly at a much younger developmental stage than their actual age, with impulse control issues, it's even harder.

Obviously I'm not excusing bringing a gun to school and shooting his teacher, although I dont believe for a second he had any real concept of his actions in the long term, we are all looking at it through an adult lens, and he absolutely should have not been alone without 1:1 help in that classroom, but some of the words used to describe this little boy in this thread really are awful. He is just a little boy and he needs help and empathy, not labelled a psychopathic monster who needs locking up.

As an aside, I have also noticed that everyone has seemingly ignored one thing, one of the incidents described a lot in articles has been the smashing of the cell phone, which of course is wrong and not saying it isn't, and I'm not blaming AZ for what happened to her, or excusing the little boys actions at all, but nobody jus asked why AZ was on her phone in class? Why she told him to go and sit down when he was speaking to her and she continued to do something with her phone whilst he was asking for her attention?. Why does she even have a cell phone in the classroom? That's not allowed in my kids school, or the school that I worked in, not even switched off in a bag or pocket during school hours for safeguarding reasons.

Anyhow, if this is true of the phone breaking incident, I can see why the boy was frustrated and felt ignored, and for a child with emotional dysregulation and impulse control that can escalate in seconds. Again, not an excuse, but a reason, and then he was suspended for the incident, and now you have an angry and emotional little boy who only feels the injustice of his punishment, because in his mind he needed her attention and she dismissed him, that made him feel bad and he lashed out, but he can't explain how he felt, and why he lashed out, and he doesn't understand why he was the bad guy when he just wanted to talk to her, and so the escalation, the "revenge" came. He isn't emotionally mature enough to understand any of it.

A quick Google of levelling behaviour and rejection sensitive dysphoria may be helpful to understand what I mean.

AZ absolutely did not deserve what happened to her, niether did the other children in that class, or any of the other people that have been on the end of this little boys violence, they were all failed because this little boy was failed.

My post is about reasons, not excuses. I hope I've managed to convey that, it's hard to do so without it seeming to be on one side or the other.

I’ll assume the teacher, AZ was doing her job.
In some schools all of these types of immediate action communications take place on the teacher‘s personal cell phone.
- the lightening alarm has gone off and kids can’t be on the playground
- a parent has shown up to pick a child up for early dismissal
- a child feels hot and is headed to the nurse to get temperature checked

My question is…
How realistic is it to expect a teacher of 23 yrs old, who can’t possibly have years of experience and is not trained in Special Ed know how to handle a 1st grader with violent tendencies?

Schools are not a classroom of 1 child, or three, or five, or even ten. They do not resemble a babysitting situation with a handful of kids, or children of different ages in the home with a parent.
The teacher is responsible for 18-22 children the same age, all at the same time.

The culture of school teaches children in Kindergarten that they are not the only child in the room. They learn some patience and that 100% of the focus of the teacher cannot possibly be on them 100% of the day.
I’d like to know how he did in Kindergarten.

We agree that help was needed-
The child needed help to learn how to control his own behavior/ or meds
The teacher needed help, guidance and options
The parents needed help understanding how to deal with their child at home

JMO

 

[AngTxGal]

@Rolypolyoly Excellent post ! I agree 100% ! IMO It is horrendous to refer to any 6 year old - regardless of mental or behavioral issues - the way this little boy has been referred to here. I am not excusing his actions and the teacher certainly did not deserve to be shot or his classmates traumatized but this little boy deserved to have parents and the other adults in his life fiercely advocating for his well being.

Yes, every child deserves to have adults in his corner advocating for his well being.
All the other children in the room also deserved the same adults in their corner. We can’t forget a room full of six year olds at least heard the gun shot and saw a teacher with a wound to her hand and chest- and may have seen the child with the gun.
If this could have been prevented- why was it not? Where are the lawsuits from those parents against a school that should have prevented this?

I’ve never seen a six year old who was violent to this level, acting out to intentionally harm others with full knowledge that harm would come to others. I question if a six year old has the capacity to understand at all what he did. We do not prosecute minors as adults for a reason- we certainly don’t prosecute 6 yr olds as adults- we assume they do not understand.

We do know he was in 1st grade, so if he attended K then he was promoted.
How did he do in Kindergarten?
Was he in preschool or daycare prior or did someone care for him at home?

JMO

 

[fred&edna]

There are also OSHA standards (procedures and evaluations) that I'm sure the principal was well-aware... and should have been known/followed by administrative staff.

ETA: Doesn't seem possible to hide behind "worker's comp" when the admin didn't uphold their training for a safe environment. jmo

 

[PrairieWind]

There are also OSHA standards (procedures and evaluations) that I'm sure the principal was well-aware... and should have been known/followed by administrative staff.

ETA: Doesn't seem possible to hide behind "worker's comp" when the admin didn't uphold their training for a safe environment. jmo

Public schools generally are not subject to OSHA regulation. There may be state regs. It is really the school district's administration that failed everyone here. But it is clear they are still not accepting blame.

 

[fred&edna]

Public schools generally are not subject to OSHA regulation. There may be state regs. It is really the school district's administration that failed everyone here. But it is clear they are still not accepting blame.

Google tells me...

Virginia operates an OSHA-approved State Plan covering most private sector workers and all state and local government workers. (VOSH)

Safety - Workforce Wellness

One of the main stressors affecting healthcare workers in these uncertain times has to do with employment (or in some cases, unemployment) policy. The information below may assist you in making sense of your situation and connect you with supports you may need as you move forward. Worker Safety...

www.vdh.virginia.gov

The school district failed and the parent/s failed. imo

 

[PrairieWind]

Google tells me...

Virginia operates an OSHA-approved State Plan covering most private sector workers and all state and local government workers. (VOSH)

Safety - Workforce Wellness

One of the main stressors affecting healthcare workers in these uncertain times has to do with employment (or in some cases, unemployment) policy. The information below may assist you in making sense of your situation and connect you with supports you may need as you move forward. Worker Safety...

www.vdh.virginia.gov

The school district failed and the parent/s failed. imo

Totally agree. Both the boy's parents and the district failed. At least the boy's mom is being charged. Nothing will happen to the administrators. They might have their contracts not refilled. But that is all.

 

[fred&edna]

@Rolypolyoly Excellent post ! I agree 100% ! IMO It is horrendous to refer to any 6 year old - regardless of mental or behavioral issues - the way this little boy has been referred to here. I am not excusing his actions and the teacher certainly did not deserve to be shot or his classmates traumatized but this little boy deserved to have parents and the other adults in his life fiercely advocating for his well being.

How is this little boy shooter being referred to here?

 

[fred&edna]

Totally agree. Both the boy's parents and the district failed. At least the boy's mom is being charged. Nothing will happen to the administrators. They might have their contracts not refilled. But that is all.

Would be nice to think they'd all be in some other line of work that doesn't involve children. It would be nice to believe everyone negligent would be held accountable. And, of course... I hope this child is receiving professional help and living in a home where respect and safety are practiced. (I guess I live in a dream world).

 

[realanastasia]

As an aside, I have also noticed that everyone has seemingly ignored one thing, one of the incidents described a lot in articles has been the smashing of the cell phone, which of course is wrong and not saying it isn't, and I'm not blaming AZ for what happened to her, or excusing the little boys actions at all, but nobody jus asked why AZ was on her phone in class? Why she told him to go and sit down when he was speaking to her and she continued to do something with her phone whilst he was asking for her attention?. Why does she even have a cell phone in the classroom? That's not allowed in my kids school, or the school that I worked in, not even switched off in a bag or pocket during school hours for safeguarding reasons.

Respectfully, and IMO, some possible reasons no one has questioned why AZ was on her phone are a) because it’s largely irrelevant to the child’s aggressive response to her, and b) it was AZ’s prerogative, as an adult, to check her phone whenever she needed to. She could’ve been reading a weather alert from the school, making a note to herself to document an occurrence of troubling behavior in a student, checking for an update on a relative in the hospital, etc. No reason she could have possibly provided to the child in the moment—which she had absolutely no obligation to do—would have stopped the child from reacting violently and smashing the phone, because all that seems to have registered with him is that he wasn’t getting what he demanded (her attention) and his response IMO was driven by the frustration and rage he felt at being “ignored.” In short, that is why I think the “why” of AZ’s in-class phone use is not germane to the discussion here.

 

[amaraya]

Teachers use their phone in class for many things- attendance, showing media, keeping time and we also have the right to have our phone in the classroom for emergencies - like any other professional. It doesn't mean she is misusing it. Students give the same question, why can teachers have their phone and not students snd the short answer is because they are TEACHERS and adult professionals, it seems strange, to me, that a teacher having a phone in class is the issue in all of this.imo

In addition it was said she was reading a book go the class and they were a seated- he was, iirc, seated in front of her, took out the gun and *advertiser censored* her as she was reaching to take the gun from him.