VA - Hannah Elizabeth Graham, 18, Charlottesville, 13 Sept 2014 - #12

[bogart64]

Anyone else wondering where Grandma is now? I am a little shocked that no one from his family has released a "turn yourself in" statement or a "he's not with me" one.

No doubt they know where he is and likely will lead LE right to him (with hope).

One more thing I want to speak to was the comment that no one could understand what he was doing out alone. It needs to be pointed out that Hannah was out alone also with seemingly no purpose.

The one thing I would like to know is why she left the party? Where did she say she was headed? Did she know or intend to meet up with someone? Even if it wasn't POI, who was she looking for. If she has lived in VA for most of her life, how was she lost in the downtown area that she decided to go to. None of this , imo is what caused this to happen to her but I am curious of the little details that seem to be missing.

When I look at the Noelle Paquette case in Canada, my home town, she left a party after a fight with her boyfriend and decided to walk home. Everyone knew that she was going to do this but could not stop her. This information was released immediately when people started looking for her... why are her intentions for the night protected? Again, I repeat, she is innocent... I think I could do a better job, though if I knew more of the basics of the night.

one of the large news stations sent a retired detective and reporter to grandmas house. She came out in her moo moo but said no comment and to get off her property

 

[kkdj]

Sounds like car evidence. Wonder if she passed out in his car, and he actually did take her to his apartment because he didn't know what else to do with her?

Well, he made some sort of decision!
jmo

 

[Stones]

Risky to take her into Tempo too if he was up to no good. I think it evolved into something horrible.

Exactly! If this were all planned and some sort of trafficking scenario (modsnip), then I guess it makes perfect sense for him to go back to the bar he was at all night, with people who knew him to say, "look at me and this white girl that I'm planning to kidnap and sell!!" (that last part was sarcasm, I'm agreeing with you). He probably planned on finding a lady and having a great, consensual night. When he realizes that it wasn't going to happen, things went bad. This scenario plays out far too often and thankfully, most the time, the girl doesn't disappear (but unfortunately end up being reluctant to report it or convince themselves it was their fault because they got way too drunk that night).

 

[GhostGhost]

Anyone else wondering where Grandma is now? I am a little shocked that no one from his family has released a "turn yourself in" statement or a "he's not with me" one.

No doubt they know where he is and likely will lead LE right to him (with hope).

.

FOX guy (Ted Williams, is name, I think) went to Grandma's today, she opened the door and yelled for him to get off of her Property. She came out and said it a second time.

Not real happy.

Sorry, I see someone already posted it.
,

 

[cluciano63]

I agree with a number of others on this thread. I think that PC was more about MH than HG. They need his DNA. It is not enough to just have a match from the apartment or car to the MH case. They need to show it is clearly and unquestionnably his DNA. I still get the sense they do not have much on the HG case. In fact, they shared absolutely no information, so I'm not even sure the charge is related to HG. I don't handle criminal cases, but it seems like it would be hard to demonstrate probable cause of "abduction with intent to defile" based on what we have learned so far. If there is a DNA hit between MH and JM, the charge makes more sense.

But VA used these same charges with Alexis Murphy. And then upgraded them to murder, even though she has not been found. They got a conviction. Maybe they are using that as a prototype.

 

[ZsaZsa]

Anyone else wondering where Grandma is now? I am a little shocked that no one from his family has released a "turn yourself in" statement or a "he's not with me" one.

No doubt they know where he is and likely will lead LE right to him (with hope).

One more thing I want to speak to was the comment that no one could understand what he was doing out alone. It needs to be pointed out that Hannah was out alone also with seemingly no purpose.

The one thing I would like to know is why she left the party? Where did she say she was headed? Did she know or intend to meet up with someone? Even if it wasn't POI, who was she looking for. If she has lived in VA for most of her life, how was she lost in the downtown area that she decided to go to. None of this , imo is what caused this to happen to her but I am curious of the little details that seem to be missing.

When I look at the Noelle Paquette case in Canada, my home town, she left a party after a fight with her boyfriend and decided to walk home. Everyone knew that she was going to do this but could not stop her. This information was released immediately when people started looking for her... why are her intentions for the night protected? Again, I repeat, she is innocent... I think I could do a better job, though if I knew more of the basics of the night.

She is from Northern Virginia, close to Washington DC . She is a Sophomore, but has only lived away from the college, in an apartment in C-Ville for a few weeks.

 

[absentia]

I agree with a number of others on this thread. I think that PC was more about MH than HG. They need his DNA. It is not enough to just have a match from the apartment or car to the MH case. They need to show it is clearly and unquestionnably his DNA. I still get the sense they do not have much on the HG case. In fact, they shared absolutely no information, so I'm not even sure the charge is related to HG. I don't handle criminal cases, but it seems like it would be hard to demonstrate probable cause of "abduction with intent to defile" based on what we have learned so far. If there is a DNA hit between MH and JM, the charge makes more sense.

the charge specifically says abduction and attempt to defile Hannah Graham.

 

[sarx]

Why is sex trafficking being discussed? There is no evidence of it and pecuniary benefit is not a necessary element of the charge.

I think nothing is really off the table til we know more. We were looking for a body in Joelle's case, we were all sure of it, LE was trying to link someone to her murder, nobody ever even thought "oh maybe she is being kept in a cage". Stranger things have happened. 3 girls in Ohio.... We would be wise to remember, crazy can and does happen. Unlikely no but possible.

 

[anyoldtime48]

Because there hasn't been a single publicized missing persons case that ended with the victim being trafficked? At least that I know of. Lots of women are trafficked. None are abducted from upper/middle class lives and sold into trafficking. Not in the US.

Not true. And not that I personally believe that Hannah fell victim of trafficking, it does indeed happen and is not just about "lower class" women being abducted. Young and not clear-thinking have fallen victim as well, and personally, I am bothered that posters here seemingly aren't allowed by some to consider this to be a possibility. This is just one link on a 17 year old girl apparently abducted and it was all over the media. I won't post her name since she's a juvenile, but her name can be searched and many, many articles come up.

http://www.katu.com/news/local/Cama...nto-human-trafficking-underway-266534641.html

Should also be noted there is an ad on the Virginia State Police's web site for the VA Coordinated Response Against Human Trafficking, so why suggestions Hannah may have fallen victim to such "because it NEVER happens" are summarily dismissing that it could be possible are IMO incorrect.

http://www.vsp.state.va.us

 

[birdbox]

Originally Posted by eileenhawkeye
For those who think JM is guilty, what do you think transpired after Hannah got in the car (assuming she did)? Did she go willingly? Did she think he was driving her home? Did they both plan to go to his apartment first? What do you think happened there? What is your theory?

I think she trusted him. They spoke outside, she said she was headed to a party. He said, come back in the bar with me while I have one drink or two, then I will drop you off over there, as I know where it is. So, they went in for quick drink. They left. She does not question which way he is going, because she has already stated she is lost. When she notices they have been riding for a while and asks where they are going, he elbows her to the face, knocks her out, and takes her phone. He then continues to drive to a rural area he knows well, about 20 minutes from town, where he rapes and murders her. The end.

I posted this last night....my theory...

 

[teeandcee]

He probably planned on finding a lady and having a great, consensual night. When he realizes that it wasn't going to happen, things went bad. This scenario plays out far too often and thankfully, most the time, the girl doesn't disappear (but unfortunately end up being reluctant to report it or convince themselves it was their fault because they got way too drunk that night).

While I know charges aren't a conviction, the charges are that he abducted her with the intent on committing harm, not an innocent-situation-gone-bad.

 

[absentia]

But VA used these same charges with Alexis Murphy. And then upgraded them to murder, even though she has not been found. They got a conviction. Maybe they are using that as a prototype.

I think this is exactly the case. they have enough for a warrant with these charges. there is more to come but they need more time and access to evidence.

 

[FruitTingles]

Doesn't he have his sister's car? I would think that maybe she needs it.

Yep, I wonder if she is pissed about that?! Probably knows she is never going to see her car again lol. Totally irrelevant to current topics I know but I'm about 600 pages behind ya'll (obviously an exaggeration but that's how behind I am :gaah

 

[Lovepink]

She is from Northern Virginia, close to Washington DC . She is a Sophomore, but has only lived away from the college, in an apartment in C-Ville for a few weeks.

I get what you're saying, but in my experience and my opinion she was probably pretty familiar with the corner, grounds, and downtown mall by the end of her first year. Especially since she's a runner. I am not the best at directions, but even I knew my way around after one year. Jmo.

 

[Fascinated1]

So my question after listening to the press conference is....where the heck is he? And why are they not a bit more concerned? Do they know where he is? If he is linked to other murders as has been speculated prolifically here I'd think there would be a bit more urgency in finding him and more involvement from state police and the FBI. I think I'd feel safe in cvile but not northern va, tidewater area or Richmond. Just seemed very odd. Anyone have thoughts or has that been discussed? I've given up trying to work full time and stay current on these threads!!

 

[Evie Ivy Over]

Why is sex trafficking being discussed? There is no evidence of it and pecuniary benefit is not a necessary element of the charge.

I don't know...at the previous PC, Longo emphatically asked everyone not to have tunnel vision. Maybe he is also looking at, but beyond, LM.

 

[otto]

FOX guy (Ted Williams, is name, I think) went to Grandma's today, she opened the door and yelled for him to get off of her Property. She came out and said it a second time.

Not real happy.

,

Well, I guess that tells us something. I recall that when Jesse Matthew earned his reckless driving charge, his mom was in his car. It looks like his family is supporting him, and probably finding all sorts of interesting reasons to avoid doing the right thing.

 

[cluciano63]

We should not tell others what to post, Imo. If you don't like a theory, you can skip it. Yes, it may get annoying if others pick it up, but we all do have a right to opinions. And mine is, he is alone in this, and it was a sexual assault and murder. Jmo

 

[absentia]

Exactly! If this were all planned and some sort of trafficking scenario as people will NOT let go, then I guess it makes perfect sense for him to go back to the bar he was at all night, with people who knew him to say, "look at me and this white girl that I'm planning to kidnap and sell!!" (that last part was sarcasm, I'm agreeing with you). He probably planned on finding a lady and having a great, consensual night. When he realizes that it wasn't going to happen, things went bad. This scenario plays out far too often and thankfully, most the time, the girl doesn't disappear (but unfortunately end up being reluctant to report it or convince themselves it was their fault because they got way too drunk that night).

unless Tempo is where girls get handed off to other people in the ring.

 

[princessk]

I wear moo moos.