VA - Hannah Elizabeth Graham, 18, Charlottesville, 13 Sept 2014 - #13

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astridxx said:
Exactly - any decent, ethical attorney would arrange to have their client turn themselves in, of course with the attorney being present.
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Praying today is the day they are able to bring him in and get some answers.
 
kathryann said:
Can JM make some kind of deal telling where she is? I know in the Mickey Shunick case the perpetrator told where he had put her so he didn't get put to death.
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I hope so. If he knows where she is, I hope they come to an agreement whereby her body is found and a fair sentence is agreed to for him by both sides. I think it would be a much better outcome for her family than not knowing, and having to go through a trial.
 
otto said:
She did. She was lost. She texted that she was lost. She texted a friend to come and get her because she was lost. The last text, at 1:20AM indicates that she believed she was at 14th and Wertland and still lost, even though that is a five minute walk from her apartment.
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Maybe it is better to say that 'a text was sent from her phone'. We don't know who actually typed and sent it. Could have been JM.
 
mainemom said:
I have a question for those of you who have followed other cases:

If LE determines that HG was under the influence of recreational drugs (ecstacy/mdma/etc), do you think they would release that information to the public, or would they potentially withhold it out of deference to her family... not wanting to sully her character by revealing she took drugs...?

I ask because I hope that, even in the worst case scenario for HG, this tragedy could at least have the positive outcome of broadening the discussion among college-age kids about the dangers of drinking to excess and taking drugs. As the a parent of a college-age daughter, and as someone who remembers that feeling of invulnerability at that age myself, I know that most kids just don't take these dangers seriously enough. But I wonder if they'd hush up any illegal drug use? Thoughts?

(And for those of you who think that "good", smart, successful college girls don't take these sorts of drugs, I can tell you that you're absolutely wrong about that. I know several 4.0 GPA kids who attend top-tier and ivy league schools who take recreational drugs of all kinds, not just weed. It's a lot more common that you may think.)
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It would likely be a matter of public record if LE finds this info. It would have to be provided to JM's attorney. Whether it's to JM's advantage if she were taking drugs, I don't know.

It's already out there that Hannah was under the influence of something. She was drunk. The definitive way this was said, "highly intoxicated" indicates that LE knows this pretty much for sure. She left a dinner, a party, and those there probably have told LE she was drinking a lot and was drunk when she left. UVA and LE should be meeting with all of those who were there at that get together. Whoever hosted it gave alcohol to someone underage. They let her leave alone at night KNOWING she had too much too drink. There is culpability here. But she is an adult. Over 18, and broke the laws all on her own knowingly. So there is some follow up to do here. My guess is that for right now, it's far more important to get all the info one could get from everyone and serves no good purpose to put the heat on these students and those who gave Hannah alcohol, did not call police when they saw her clearly out of it. When things settle down more, when Hannah is found, or the searches called off, these things should be addressed.

But how much good will it do? Probably none long term. Everyone on their toes now in Charlotteville but in time things will go back to the norm. I have been very interested in the Lauren Spierer case from 3 years ago, where a college co ed under the influence allegedly went off on her own and disappeared. She was clearly drunk or on drugs, probably both as she was followed on tape for a while as was Hannah,and even seen drinking at a bar. She had fake id, had already been charged before with underage drinking as were a number of her cohorts of that evening. Even as her dear, heart broken parents were there in Bloomington trying to to keep up the efforts to find her, get more info, Charlotte Spierer, the mom in the case noted seeeing other drunk, disoriented young women at the same times of the night, early evening, same locale as where Lauren disappeared, even with flyers and billboard festooned with her photos all about. I have young adult children and this has been a problem for a long time and it's not just from this generation.

But I will say, that in my day, at my college, young women were not often allowed to wander off at night drunk or on drugs in a state of confusion. Someone, a friend, a fellow student, someone there always would insist on escorting someone like that home. I don't know of a single case of this sort of thing happening with death, missing, police report. Nor do I know a single case of alcohol poisoning or death on the couch fromoODing at a party with no one noticing. And I now know a multitude of such cases, some of people I know personally. Four of my friends have so lost their children, three while they were good students at prestigious colleges. And many more, including self, have had their kids getting in trouble with LE or school due to issues mixed with substance abuse including drinking. It's outright common.

So, absolutely, I do not think that "good", smart, successful college student or any young people, or anyone are excluded from getting into trouble of this sort. It's a tale as old as time. But what troubles me is that friends and fellow students don't seem to step up and help the person home as they used to do so. They knowingly let some drunk or confused person go out in the night. That is what I see as a big difference. In a number of these cases, and the Lauren Spierer one and this one are good examples, "friends" let a girl in bad shape go out alone in the dark. Didn't call campus security, did not call police. Did not get other students to help insist she stay put or escort her Just let her go KNOWING she was blitzed.

So does it mater if Hannah took a certain drug or if she was just flat out drunk? it's clear she was confused. It's clear those who knew her let her leave alone in non-optimal shape. Someone offered to go with her, she declined, so that was it, instead of the person saying, "NO WAY should you go out in that shape alone. We need a few folks to take her home." IMO that party or dinner crowd should be getting flak, letting her go when people there, her friends and classmates KNEW she was drunk, and disoriented, serving drinks to underaged people--and she was a sophomore, they had to know she was likely underage, heck, probalby helped her get fake id if she had it as many of the kids do.

But right now the LE focus is as it should be, on getting Hannah back, locking up her perp, and finding out what happened. UVA should be addressing student conduct, but they will probably do as IU did. Focus on those things about the situation to make them look good instead of going after those who flagrently broke UVA rules on substance abuse if that is the case.
 
I'm curious about all these people who supposedly know him and keep saying he doesn't know his own strength. How many times do you have to beat the heck out of someone before you realize your own strength? At some point it stops being "he doesn't realize his own strength," and starts being, "he just doesn't care."
 
Surely the lawyer will bring him in, if he knows where he is, with these new charges. It is not safe for JM to be "out there". And if this man is a somewhat known or high-profile attorney, he has to have some scruples. (Lol)
 
Detective Klimpt said:
And where does one draw the line as to what is too drunk to consent? There have been cases with video where it was clear a woman was just about comatose and getting raped. Even with those cases, there were people that thought the victim was consenting. Personally, I think there are too many women claiming 'date rape' when it really wasn't, but that is outside the scope of this case.
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According to the law legally drunk is BAC of .08 or higher.
 
TODAY | September 24, 2014

Police target suspect in UVA student’s disappearance
Police say 32-year-old Jesse Matthew, once a person of interest after being reported as the last person seen with 18-year-old Hannah Graham before her disappearance, is now a suspect and the target of a manhunt. NBC’s Craig Melvin reports.


http://www.today.com/video/today/56107678
 
Observations from yesterday:

Interesting in light of the new charges that LJ/JM blacked out his facebook page photo's before disappearing to me. He knew more was coming. Still think the reason he went to the police department to request an attorney was to appease his family. He played the innocent one as long as he possibly could.

The debate of what happened and why he would be in public with Hannah prior to her disappearing, I think something bad happened and he didn't plan it and he didn't think he would ever be tied to her. She was a stranger to him, he didn't think of the camera's in the mall. The information dripped out purposely by LE, they gave him a chance to come forward if he wasn't involved, he never did.

I like Longo! He will get answers. And if LJ/JM isn't guilty of murdering Hannah he will turn himself in now, the longer he runs the worse it looks and it probably tells us he did kill her.

Musings on my part and JMO.
 
chipmunk said:
Re Bessie's request for names of four or five of missing/murdered along RT 29.

Please add more suggestions or opinions of who to choose and why. I'll bet some of you know the ins and outs of theses cases so well you could pick those with a better chance of being connected. At least for me it would make it more interesting. Do we want to pick one that already has a conviction? Why or why not?
Choose those who disappeared or were found closest together?
Those who have a described attacker with a similarities?
Similar possible MO, surrounding facts, method if we have clues?
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All of the above :)
 
It says the attorney was hired by JM's family. How does that work? I thought one had to retain their own lawyer, you can't get grandma to retain one for you.

Is this guy representing JM or his family? Big difference IMO.
 
jamicat said:
It would likely be a matter of public record if LE finds this info. It would have to be provided to JM's attorney. Whether it's to JM's advantage if she were taking drugs, I don't know.

It's already out there that Hannah was under the influence of something. She was drunk. The definitive way this was said, "highly intoxicated" indicates that LE knows this pretty much for sure. She left a dinner, a party, and those there probably have told LE she was drinking a lot and was drunk when she left. UVA and LE should be meeting with all of those who were there at that get together. Whoever hosted it gave alcohol to someone underage. They let her leave alone at night KNOWING she had too much too drink. There is culpability here. But she is an adult. Over 18, and broke the laws all on her own knowingly. So there is some follow up to do here. My guess is that for right now, it's far more important to get all the info one could get from everyone and serves no good purpose to put the heat on these students and those who gave Hannah alcohol, did not call police when they saw her clearly out of it. When things settle down more, when Hannah is found, or the searches called off, these things should be addressed.

But how much good will it do? Probably none long term. Everyone on their toes now in Charlotteville but in time things will go back to the norm. I have been very interested in the Lauren Spierer case from 3 years ago, where a college co ed under the influence allegedly went off on her own and disappeared. She was clearly drunk or on drugs, probably both as she was followed on tape for a while as was Hannah,and even seen drinking at a bar. She had fake id, had already been charged before with underage drinking as were a number of her cohorts of that evening. Even as her dear, heart broken parents were there in Bloomington trying to to keep up the efforts to find her, get more info, Charlotte Spierer, the mom in the case noted seeeing other drunk, disoriented young women at the same times of the night, early evening, same locale as where Lauren disappeared, even with flyers and billboard festooned with her photos all about. I have young adult children and this has been a problem for a long time and it's not just from this generation.

But I will say, that in my day, at my college, young women were not often allowed to wander off at night drunk or on drugs in a state of confusion. Someone, a friend, a fellow student, someone there always would insist on escorting someone like that home. I don't know of a single case of this sort of thing happening with death, missing, police report. Nor do I now a single case of alcohol poisoning or death on the couch from oding at a party with no one noticing. And I now a multitude of such cases, some of people I know personally. Four of my friends have so lost their children, three while they were good students at prestigious colleges. And many more, including self, have had their kids getting in trouble with LE or school due to issues mixed with substance abuse including drinking. It's outright common.

So, absolutely, I do not think that "good", smart, successful college student or any young people, or anyone are excluded from getting into trouble of this sort. It's a tale as old as time. But what troubles me is that friends and fellow students don't seem to step up and help the person home. They knowingly let some drunk or confused person go out in the night. That is what I see as a big difference. In a number of these cases, and the Lauren Spierer one and this one are good examples, "friends" let a girl in bad shape go out alone in the dark. Didn't call campus security, did not call police. Did not get other students to help insist she stay put or escort her Just let go KNOWING she was blitzed.

So does it mater if Hannah took a certain drug or if she was just flat out drunk? it's clear she was confused. It's clear those who knew her let her leave alone in non-optimal shape. Someone offered to go with her, she declined, so that was it, instead of the person saying NO WAY should you go out in that shape alone. We need a few folks to take her home. IMO that party or dinner crowd should be getting flak, letting her go when people there, her friends and classmates KNEW she was drunk, and disoriented, serving drinks to underaged people--and she was a sophomore, they had to know she was likely underage, heck, probalby helped her get fake id if she had it as many of the kids do.

But right now the LE focus is as it should be, on getting Hannah back, locking up her perp, and finding out what happened. UVA should be addressing student conduct, but they will probably do as IU did. Focus on those things about the situation to make them look good instead of going after those who flagrently broke UVA rules on substance abuse if that is the case.
Click to expand...

Agree.
Not sure what it will take for young people to believe that it is not safe to be alone, intoxicated and out on the streets, for more reasons than possible abduction. They don't want to think so, so they don't. Or they are careful for a month or so after an incident and then revert back to careless behavior. No buddy system, no worries. I can't imagine why Hannah split from her friends but also can't imagine them letting her go and/or not becoming concerned by the texts. But jmo and for another time, I guess? Next time?
 
I must have missed something: did JM hire an attorney? Does someone have a link, please? Thanks.
 
astridxx said:
Exactly - any decent, ethical attorney would arrange to have their client turn themselves in, of course with the attorney being present.
Click to expand...

YES If the attorney knows where his or her client is. (didn't OJ have his lawyer stumped for a while as to where he was? I think nobody knew until the car chase when OJ's buddy Al called?) JMO
 
kathryann said:
Can JM make some kind of deal telling where she is? I know in the Mickey Shunick case the perpetrator told where he had put her so he didn't get put to death.
Click to expand...

Yep when they catch him but I hope they find her first!
He does not deserve the choice if he harmed her!
 
I think the longevity of this story in the national media will depend on whether there starts to be a lot of discussion and debate about JM's involvement. If the case is seen as open-and-shut by the public, it is more likely to fade, unless there keep being developments on a regular basis.

I also think that if the US had not started strikes in Syria, the arrest warrant for JM would be the top story in the country. I bet the national media would make the manhunt for him absolutely unavoidable. If that happened, then the whole country would learn everything about the case, and it would blow up even more, and increase the probability that it is still a major story a month (or longer) from now. I think timing is extremely important when it comes to how much media coverage stories get.
 
mainemom said:
I have a question for those of you who have followed other cases:

If LE determines that HG was under the influence of recreational drugs (ecstacy/mdma/etc), do you think they would release that information to the public, or would they potentially withhold it out of deference to her family... not wanting to sully her character by revealing she took drugs...?

I ask because I hope that, even in the worst case scenario for HG, this tragedy could at least have the positive outcome of broadening the discussion among college-age kids about the dangers of drinking to excess and taking drugs. As the a parent of a college-age daughter, and as someone who remembers that feeling of invulnerability at that age myself, I know that most kids just don't take these dangers seriously enough. But I wonder if they'd hush up any illegal drug use? Thoughts?

(And for those of you who think that "good", smart, successful college girls don't take these sorts of drugs, I can tell you that you're absolutely wrong about that. I know several 4.0 GPA kids who attend top-tier and ivy league schools who take recreational drugs of all kinds, not just weed. It's a lot more common that you may think.)
Click to expand...

Blaming and/or defaming the victim isnt the best way to conduct an investigation. Its usually of no help in findingvthe victim or catching the criminal responsible for their disappearance.

Right now, the question is irrelevant. HG has not been found, making it impossible to conduct a drugs test. So why is it necessary to continue engaging in this line of speculation? What purpose does it serve to continue casting aspersions on the victim's reputation?
 
bestill said:
Observations from yesterday:

Interesting in light of the new charges that LJ/JM blacked out his facebook page photo's before disappearing to me. He knew more was coming. Still think the reason he went to the police department to request an attorney was to appease his family. He played the innocent one as long as he possibly could.

The debate of what happened and why he would be in public with Hannah prior to her disappearing, I think something bad happened and he didn't plan it and he didn't think he would ever be tied to her. She was a stranger to him, he didn't think of the camera's in the mall. The information dripped out purposely by LE, they gave him a chance to come forward if he wasn't involved, he never did.

I like Longo! He will get answers. And if LJ/JM isn't guilty of murdering Hannah he will turn himself in now, the longer he runs the worse it looks and it probably tells us he did kill her.

Musings on my part and JMO.
Click to expand...

agree, good post :)
 
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