VA - Hannah Elizabeth Graham, 18, Charlottesville, 13 Sept 2014 - #3

[Claudia]

I have to disagree. I haven't heard the police come right out and say this person is no longer a person of interest. The investigation is not over and I don't believe anything is really ruled out yet, not until they have evidence or have found her. They have no evidence to rule out anything. You can only rule out something if you have proof that they did or did not have anything to do with it. The guy saying he's innocent is not proof.

While I agree with you, I am going to make one point. They haven't said WG is no longer a person of interest, but they never said he was one, so they wouldn't say that, anyway.
They're calling him a cooperative witness... I have to believe they have some reason that we're not aware of for them to believe this guy. Then again, maybe they don't believe him, and they're just saying they do because... I don't know why.
My point is, I'm sure that as much info as they've released, I bet they have at least that much more that they haven't released. At this point, I think this could go in any number of directions in the next few days. JMO.

 

[cluciano63]

If she was taken away in a car...we are likely looking at a situation of sheer luck in her being found, if she is not alive. Like Morgan. And like, I think, Christina in TX. They have to search the area but then what? Once a victim ends up in a car, they could be anywhere and not usually a good one. I am afraid if they don't find her in searches over the next five days or so, this will end up being another "search based on tips only" case. LE can only invest manpower like this for so, if are they in fact searching randomly.

 

[momrids6]

While I agree with you, I am going to make one point. They haven't said WG is no longer a person of interest, but they never said he was one, so they wouldn't say that, anyway.
They're calling him a cooperative witness... I have to believe they have some reason that we're not aware of for them to believe this guy. Then again, maybe they don't believe him, and they're just saying they do because... I don't know why.
My point is, I'm sure that as much info as they've released, I bet they have at least that much more that they haven't released. At this point, I think this could go in any number of directions in the next few days. JMO.

I watched the greta discussion.The police station is down the street. WG could work for them, or is known to them...?

 

[tarabull]

Vigil for Missing University of Virginia Student Hannah Graham

...Classmates of Hannah Graham, 18, brought some reminders of the missing second-year-student’s hobbies to Thursday night’s candlelight vigil, like skis and an alto saxophone, which she plays. Organizers passed out her favorite sweets, Starburst candy. Friends wrote a letter which was read at the memorial, which appeared to draw around 2,000 people, in which they said “It's hard to fathom the confusion, fright, anger and sadness we've felt since you went missing ... You make things good, Hannah Graham. Where are you?”

Read more: http://www.nbcnews.com/news/sports/vigil-missing-university-virginia-student-hannah-graham-n206921

 

[Claudia]

I watched the greta discussion.The police station is down the street. WG could work for them, or is known to them...?

That's a possibility that would explain why they trusted his statement so quickly. It seemed like they never even entertained the thought that he could be their POI. Unless they're lying, there has to be a reason, and that would be a good one!

 

[Heroine]

While I agree with you, I am going to make one point. They haven't said WG is no longer a person of interest, but they never said he was one, so they wouldn't say that, anyway.
They're calling him a cooperative witness... I have to believe they have some reason that we're not aware of for them to believe this guy. Then again, maybe they don't believe him, and they're just saying they do because... I don't know why.
My point is, I'm sure that as much info as they've released, I bet they have at least that much more that they haven't released. At this point, I think this could go in any number of directions in the next few days. JMO.

Yeah I'm unsure of what will transpire. I just don't fully trust this guy. I guess all we can do is wait and see.

 

[momrids6]

That's a possibility that would explain why they trusted his statement so quickly. It seemed like they never even entertained the thought that he could be their POI. Unless they're lying, there has to be a reason, and that would be a good one!

I am amazed at just how many women have gone missing right by police stations...Christina Morris who's missing from a Texas mall parking garage that has a police substation there too..

eta; there was also the young lady in Texas who was released from a police station, then found deceased.

 

[Amster]

It's been reported that she was texting her friends during the night....last one is the "lost" text. What was she texting them about?

 

[Topcat]

I don't fully trust WG until his statement is collaborated with evidence, which I'm sure LE is trying to do by collecting surveillance tapes and spotting the POI.

 

[margarita25]

It's great to see the locals here; we've needed you guys for so many cases in your area!

I created a thread for Alexis and potential search locations a while back. Heres' the link, fwiw:
http://www.websleuths.com/forums/showthread.php?220282-Alexis-Murphy-Search-Discussion-Possible-Locations-of-Interest

 

[hambirg]

I watched the greta discussion.The police station is down the street. WG could work for them, or is known to them...?

My initial thought when I saw WG was that he was undercover security. When he steps into the alcove, I thought he might have received a text about her coming his way. Is there security at the mall? I would be surprised if there wasn't any on weekend nights, with bars and all the activity.

ETA- I also want to say that I agree with the posters that say she doesn't appear to be just drunk. My gut reaction seeing her run around, but yet stumbling a little, is that she was under the influence of alcohol and adderall. Adderall is a real epidemic on college campuses. Driven kids take it to study, but apparently they also take it before they go out drinking because it allows them to party longer. It prevents them from passing out or throwing up. . .really dangerous as kids can die from alcohol poisoning or heart attack. It also causes paranoia and anxiety.

Soooo. . .while my brain is telling me Hannah was the victim of foul play, my gut is telling me "not so fast." I really don't know what to think. Neither outcome is desirable. I hope they find her soon and her loved ones can get some answers.

MOO!!!!!! :moo:

 

[zapped]

AND - bars need to put policies in place. If a young girl alone or heck, anyone looking a little lost tries to get in a place, let them in. This bar could have sat her down and served her water or a Coke and had her call a friend. Don't deny entrance to a young girl alone especially at this time of day.

While I sympathize with you, this is unrealistic given Virginias current ABC laws.....and the fact that drunk people tend to lose their inhibitions.

Think about that for a second; a drunk, pretty 18 year old is allowed into a bar...how soon before an intoxicated patron, male or female, offers to buy them a drink? Even if she told them she was underage, many would probably laugh about it and buy her one any way.

If the bartender is distracted or busy and doesnt catch it you can easily have a case of underage drinking on your hands.

If she did throw up and was obviously intoxicated, the doorman or bouncer is required to refuse her admittance no matter what age she is.

In Va if you dont show an I.D even if youre 50, I cant serve you.

As Ive stated elsewhere in the thread, I was a bartender for 25 years, mostly in Va and know a thing or two about this.

What strikes me as odd, is that people keep assuming she was in distress as early as the McGrady video, yet she had dozens of opportunities to ask for directions and/or help between then and the Tuel video.

It doesnt make sense.

 

[zapped]

Exactly! No one gives a crap about anyone anymore. No one does the right thing. Anyone could have stopped this young girl in her condition and asked her if she was lost...needed help..or if they could call someone for her but NOOOOOO everyone is all out for ME ME ME. Makes me so angry. I saw so many people around her. Anyone of those selfish people could have done something to stop her...anything...and maybe she would not be missing and god knows where. Prayers for Hannah. So sad!!!

Lets not take personal responsibility out of the equation here altogether.

Im not blaming Hannah by any means, but the the opposite side of that coin is that she had dozens of opportunities to ask for help between the McGrady video and the downtown mall.

I dont think she thought she was in distress, not while moving at such a rapid pace.

At any rate, the first indication of her being lost and in need of help doesnt happen until the questionable text at 1:20 am...almost an hour after the McGrady video.

To assume she even needed help before then is putting the cart in front of the horse IMO.

 

[zapped]

Lastly, just wanted to add that Ive seen a lot of people speculating about Hannahs behavior and mental state in these threads.

Intoxication can be affected by a lot of factors, including body chemistry, emotional state and other drugs.

Im not saying that shes on them, but Ive seen people come into a bar stone cold sober and become sloppy drunk after 1 or two drinks. In these cases its usually due to prescription drugs. Some people read; Caution! Do not take with alcohol and immediately think "I can get drunk for cheap tonight".

There are also times Ive witnessed regular drinkers become drunk much quicker than normal without the 'help' of prescription drugs. The only explanation I can come up with for this is a temporary change in body chemistry. Long time drinkers can probably confirm this as well.

Finally, there is also emotional state to consider, if Hannah was stressed about an upcoming test, cheerleader tryout or a breakup with a guy, any of those, combined with alcohol could have led to her erratic behavior and made it appear as if she was "on something".

Food for thought at least.

 

[bogart64]

Ok I don't have the link but am asking you to go watch the entire video from Mcgradys... She walks off the sidewalk then back in and you see her shadow go off the screen for over TWO minutes then she returns on the sidewalk .. Makes a complete circle around Mcgradys headed back in the same direction she came from????

 

[zapped]

While I agree with you, I am going to make one point. They haven't said WG is no longer a person of interest, but they never said he was one, so they wouldn't say that, anyway.
They're calling him a cooperative witness... I have to believe they have some reason that we're not aware of for them to believe this guy. Then again, maybe they don't believe him, and they're just saying they do because... I don't know why.
My point is, I'm sure that as much info as they've released, I bet they have at least that much more that they haven't released. At this point, I think this could go in any number of directions in the next few days. JMO.

In the press release they strongly implied that they found the fact that he followed her "interesting" before going on to say they were viewing him as a cooperative witness at this time.

The quotes around interesting were added by the reporter for emphasis, not me.I added the italics around "at this time" to show that could change on a dime.

This would not be the first time police officers encouraged a cooperative witness, giving them just enough rope to hang themselves. If he slips up even once it will be noted and scrutinized by men who are in their very nature, not very trusting, to begin with.

 

[HauntsForHope]

“A lot of things happen when you send out messages and text, and we’re following that,” Pleasants said. Police said Graham was “fairly well intoxicated” at the time she was last seen.

The timeline of the last hours anyone heard from her is as follows:

-11: 50 p.m. Friday, Graham was last seen by friends at Camden Plaza Apartments, in the 200 block of 14th Street NW.

-12:45 a.m. Saturday she was seen on surveillance video outside of McGrady’s Pub on Grady Street. (Falls off the curb)

(12:55 a.m. Running past Shell Station Video)

(~ 1 a.m. Downtown Mall Video)

-1:20 a.m. Saturday, she sends a text to friends saying she was lost in the area around 14th and Wertland Streets.

Google maps indicates the distances between these places would make for substantial walks, especially for person “fairly well intoxicated,” as police and friends say she was.

Pleasants said the camera outside McGrady’s Irish Pub showed Graham walking “in front of the building for several minutes, apparently it appears, maybe even talking to someone, and then walking away –leaving east bound on Grady at 12:46 a.m..”

That would be the opposite direction of her apartment, police said." http://fox4kc.com/2014/09/17/missin...o-walking-in-opposite-direction-of-apartment/

https://www.google.com/maps/dir/946...6d14ccfa90!2m2!1d-78.4992484!2d38.0347557!3e2

Downtown Mall video
http://www.newsplex.com/home/headli...Hannah-Graham-on-Downtown-Mall-275548461.html

 

[kathryann]

I recently had an experience with someone who overdosed on vicodin, he was totally and complete walking around and functioning like he knew what he was doing, although very strangely, went to the 7/11 on the corner, bought bread, etc. etc. etc. however, he was walking down the street with one shoe on and a woman's shirt (OMG). I happen to know him so I called EMS, because he had a totally and I mean totally complete personality change. I was worried he would get hit by a car, or something worse, and it was a guy during the day. I'm in no way dissing Hannah, OMG I could have really gotten in huge trouble when I was her age, in fact we talk about things like that occasionally and feel lucky we lived through it. She was just in the wrong place at the wrong time. I got to talk to this guy after he got out of the hospital and he says he remembers NOTHING. I also want to add that I read above that they had a memorial for Hannah, OMG no one even knows if she's gone or not, why did they have a memorial? I am quoting a quote by Tarabull.

...Classmates of Hannah Graham, 18, brought some reminders of the missing second-year-student’s hobbies to Thursday night’s candlelight vigil, like skis and an alto saxophone, which she plays. Organizers passed out her favorite sweets, Starburst candy. Friends wrote a letter which was read at the memorial, which appeared to draw around 2,000 people, in which they said “It's hard to fathom the confusion, fright, anger and sadness we've felt since you went missing ... You make things good, Hannah Graham. Where are you?”

 

[TTF14]

I recently had an experience with someone who overdosed on vicodin, he was totally and complete walking around and functioning like he knew what he was doing, although very strangely, went to the 7/11 on the corner, bought bread, etc. etc. etc. however, he was walking down the street with one shoe on and a woman's shirt (OMG). I happen to know him so I called EMS, because he had a totally and I mean totally complete personality change. I was worried he would get hit by a car, or something worse, and it was a guy during the day. I'm in no way dissing Hannah, OMG I could have really gotten in huge trouble when I was her age, in fact we talk about things like that occasionally and feel lucky we lived through it. She was just in the wrong place at the wrong time. I got to talk to this guy after he got out of the hospital and he says he remembers NOTHING. I also want to add that I read above that they had a memorial for Hannah, OMG no one even knows if she's gone or not, why did they have a memorial? I am quoting a quote by Tarabull.

...Classmates of Hannah Graham, 18, brought some reminders of the missing second-year-student’s hobbies to Thursday night’s candlelight vigil, like skis and an alto saxophone, which she plays. Organizers passed out her favorite sweets, Starburst candy. Friends wrote a letter which was read at the memorial, which appeared to draw around 2,000 people, in which they said “It's hard to fathom the confusion, fright, anger and sadness we've felt since you went missing ... You make things good, Hannah Graham. Where are you?”

Well, it was a vigil, not a memorial. They are very different.

 

[TTF14]

AND - bars need to put policies in place. If a young girl alone or heck, anyone looking a little lost tries to get in a place, let them in. This bar could have sat her down and served her water or a Coke and had her call a friend. Don't deny entrance to a young girl alone especially at this time of day.

Nice in theory, but bars can't be babysitters . Way too much liability.