VA - Hannah Elizabeth Graham, 18, Charlottesville, 13 Sept 2014 - #6

[J1981]

Or she was blowing off her friends, giving them an excuse as to why she was so late.

Yeah, but I'd imagine she would use a different excuse that friends wouldn't follow up on (unfortunately it appears no one followed up on "I'm lost", but they certainly could have) and say something less questionable like "I have a headache- I'm going home". IMO of course.

 

[TrueCrimeSleuth]

Yes! TCS. I cannot tell you what a wonderful, caring, dedicated, Christian man and coach he is. I am soooo shocked I about this! I know that friends/neighbors of victims always say this, but this is different! I have watched the videos at least 30 times and although the guy in the video is obviously him, I never, ever even thought of him. For 5 days, I looked at the video and he never came into my mind as him! I saw him the Friday night the incident occurred at the TCS football game (against Hargrave). I even took pictures of him and the boys. I am shaken!

Very interesting, TCS!! That's kinda kooky... lol

 

[Dixie811]

Or she was blowing off her friends, giving them an excuse as to why she was so late.

My thought is that at least at some point during the night, Hannah was purposely deceiving one or more of her friends. She told the male friend from the house party she was going home (and declined his offer to walk him home- was it because she was lying about where she planned to go?), and apparently had told her friends from the dinner group that she was going to meet up with them later at a party. She neither went home, nor met back up with her other friends. I know she was drunk and it's possible she was intoxicated and confused enough to not understand exactly where she was traveling (East to the mall, away from both home and her friends)... but I do think at least at some point she was being purposely deceptive.

 

[birdbox]

Without her announcing her age, how would the POI know she was underage. As far as being served alcohol, this wasn't the first bar/restaurant that she was served at this night I believe, wasn't she out with friends earlier, I thought she was out drinking and dancing. I think she must have been carded at Tempo. Sounds to me that she was carrying good fake ID and looked a few years older than her real age.

Maybe it is just me, but even when I was a senior in college, I could pick out the 18 and 19 year olds. They looked like kids to me...even more so when I was 32. If a person has lived on or near a college campus for a long time, such as a guy who is 32, I would think he has become an expert at picking out underage kids.

 

[Coldngrey]

Yes! TCS. I cannot tell you what a wonderful, caring, dedicated, Christian man and coach he is. I am soooo shocked I about this! I know that friends/neighbors of victims always say this, but this is different! I have watched the videos at least 30 times and although the guy in the video is obviously him, I never, ever even thought of him. For 5 days, I looked at the video and he never came into my mind as him! I saw him the Friday night the incident occurred at the TCS football game (against Hargrave). I even took pictures of him and the boys. I am shaken!

Please call the tip line.

 

[gitana1]

how is he supposed to know where video footage will be obtained from? how is he supposed to know that justice will prevail? in lots of cases, there is an astonishing lack of competence with LE. as a general rule, you lawyer up.

But that's just the thing: AS a general rule, you don't. Innocent people do not "lawyer up" typically. (Sometimes even the guilty don't). In my experience, as an attorney whose law partner is a criminal defense lawyer, innocent people tend to immediately talk, give DNA, give their alibis, etc. It's not until they realize they are being targeted by police or arrested that they realize they should probably get counsel. And this goes for very intelligent people as well.

But I guess that's neither here nor there, as this guy hasn't lawyered up yet, right? And I see that some are saying he's been quiet but do we know that? IF he's not cooperating and talking, that would be a red flag to me. Because it;s not about what we should do. It's about what people tend to do. It's about profiling. (Or trying to!)

 

[Dixie811]

Yes! TCS. I cannot tell you what a wonderful, caring, dedicated, Christian man and coach he is. I am soooo shocked I about this! I know that friends/neighbors of victims always say this, but this is different! I have watched the videos at least 30 times and although the guy in the video is obviously him, I never, ever even thought of him. For 5 days, I looked at the video and he never came into my mind as him! I saw him the Friday night the incident occurred at the TCS football game (against Hargrave). I even took pictures of him and the boys. I am shaken!

I already directed a post toward you, but I am not sure if you saw it. Please contact LE and let them know about seeing him on Friday night at the game, and whether or not he showed up to the Saturday morning practice you mentioned. They may have additional questions about Saturday AM. Thank you for joining us here and sharing what you know about the POI!

 

[Lava]

Please call the tip line.

Yesc please do. Getting his time line will be very important for both him and LE

 

[birdbox]

My thought is that at least at some point during the night, Hannah was purposely deceiving one or more of her friends. She told the male friend from the house party she was going home (and declined his offer to walk him home- was lying?), and apparently had told her friends from the dinner group that she was going to meet up with them later at a party. She neither went home, nor met back up with her other friends. I know she was drunk and it's possible she was intoxicated and confused enough to not understand exactly where she was traveling (East to the mall, away from both home and her friends)... but I do think at least at some point she was being purposely deceptive.

Good point. I often used to lie to my friends when I was in college if I was with a guy I knew they would give me a hard time about. (like my ex boyfriend that they all hated) - so that is a possibility...she didn't want to say, I am with a 32 year old guy with dreads.

 

[teeandcee]

Regarding HG being lost vs. on some type of mission, I got lost once when I was both drunk and high when I was about HG's age. It was one of the most terrifying experiences of my life. I knew I was lost and knew I was incapable of fixing the situation in the state I was in. I remember pacing around quickly all over the place because I was panicked. If there had been video of me I'd have looked like I was on a mission looking for someone. I didn't ask for help because I was utterly focused on getting "un-lost." It was probably a combination of the drugs/alcohol and panic, but I just couldn't think clearly enough to ask for help. I even remember people looking at me curiously because of how I was acting, but it never once occurred to me to ask them for help. My only thought was to keep moving-moving-moving.

Fortunately for me a friend found me and got me home as I wasn't as lost as I thought I was. But if I'd been in this terrifying panicked state as long as HG and a friendly dude offered to help me I may have, by that time, been desperate enough to go with him.

 

[katydid23]

It has been clarified that he works in patient transport, which likely would not have access to any medication unless he had the help of another person with access.

edit: Colette was just too quick for me!

Also, he would be randomly drug tested. Knowing that he had this job, and was doing so up until this incident, makes me give him the benefit of doubt at this time.

 

[SthrnRaine]

Or she was blowing off her friends, giving them an excuse as to why she was so late.

^^^ This has been my opinion of the "I'm lost" text for awhile now. I don't believe she could have been that unfamiliar with the area after living there for two years as an active part of the student body. In the event she was that confused, there where plenty of people and places along the way for her to get directions. In my opinion she was ditching her friends for a reason.

 

[Lava]

But that's just the thing: AS a general rule, you don't. Innocent people do not "lawyer up" typically. (Sometimes even the guilty don't). In my experience, as an attorney whose law partner is a criminal defense lawyer, innocent people tend to immediately talk, give DNA, give their alibis, etc. It's not until they realize they are being targeted by police or arrested that they realize they should probably get counsel. And this goes for very intelligent people as well.

But I guess that's neither here nor there, as this guy hasn't lawyered up yet, right? And I see that some are saying he's been quiet but do we know that? IF he's not cooperating and talking, that would be a red flag to me. Because it;s not about what we should do. It's about what people tend to do. It's about profiling. (Or trying to!)

But he was already targetted. They already had a warrant for his car. That would be enough for me to ask for a lawyer.

 

[Lovepink]

Yes! TCS. I cannot tell you what a wonderful, caring, dedicated, Christian man and coach he is. I am soooo shocked I about this! I know that friends/neighbors of victims always say this, but this is different! I have watched the videos at least 30 times and although the guy in the video is obviously him, I never, ever even thought of him. For 5 days, I looked at the video and he never came into my mind as him! I saw him the Friday night the incident occurred at the TCS football game (against Hargrave). I even took pictures of him and the boys. I am shaken!

Again, please call the tip line if you haven't already re: him being at the game on Saturday.

 

[njgolden1120]

Is there a link to Hannah's Facebook page?

Sent from my SCH-I535 using Tapatalk

 

[colette]

It has been clarified that he works in patient transport, which likely would not have access to any medication unless he had the help of another person with access.

edit: Colette was just too quick for me!

As an RN myself, stuff like that drives me crazy.

 

[gitana1]

hopefully video footage will fill in the gaps. i really really hope it will. i would hate for someone to be convicted based on circumstantial evidence.

Video footage IS circumstantial evidence. Direct evidence is witness statements from people who actually saw the crime committed (including the victim and even the perp) and/or, possibly, video footage of the crime itself - of the killing. EVERYTHING else is circumstantial and we rightfully convict on circumstantial evidence every day. It is often more reliable than direct evidence.

 

[netsleuth]

Because she was drunk and a minor.

She is under the drinking age, but she is not a minor as she is over 18.

 

[gitana1]

Respectfully, he has not been arrested nor arraigned, so no public defender... how is he supposed to afford to retain an attorney?

We are middle class, and it would take some serious running up of the plastic to do so.

Not really. he could find one who would be willing to advise him and help him speak to police for a relatively low price, in my experience.

 

[birdbox]

In video footage today, I saw two police officers guarding the dumpster next to his apartment. Does anyone know if they searched or retrieved evidence from the dumpster?