VA VA - Lollie Winans, 26, & Julie Williams, 24, found murdered, Shenandoah National Park, 1 Jun 1996

[imstilla.grandma]

 

[MntnHiker]

I thought of Lollie and Julie as I was just in Shenandoah NP last week. It was absolutely beautiful there and i understand why they enjoyed hiking and camping there so much. I actually stayed at Skyland Resort which was so close to the trail where the women were tragically murdered. I thought about them so much the entire time I was in the park.

I visited both major "resorts" there, the visitor centers, etc. and did not see any signs about the women. I know it has been a very long time, but I would love to still see something about them there. Perhaps someone is a long-time visitor of Shenandoah and was there that year they were murdered and still returns and might remember something?

 

[realanastasia]

I thought of Lollie and Julie as I was just in Shenandoah NP last week. It was absolutely beautiful there and i understand why they enjoyed hiking and camping there so much. I actually stayed at Skyland Resort which was so close to the trail where the women were tragically murdered. I thought about them so much the entire time I was in the park.

I visited both major "resorts" there, the visitor centers, etc. and did not see any signs about the women. I know it has been a very long time, but I would love to still see something about them there. Perhaps someone is a long-time visitor of Shenandoah and was there that year they were murdered and still returns and might remember something?

This seems like an opportunity for what I call "guerrilla public history," wherein an individual places some kind of marker at a historic site that lacks "official" recognition. In this case, it could be something as simple like a laminated flier attached to a fence or other installations in the park, reminding folks of what happened to Lollie and Julie and asking anyone who recalls visiting the park around the time of their murder to search their memory banks and contact authorities if they have any curious recollections. It's not fancy, but IMO it would be better than nothing...

 

[Yemelyan]

I just finished reading a new book about this case that came out last week called Trailed: One Woman's Quest to Solve the Shenandoah Murders by Kathryn Miles. Has anyone else read it yet?

I just finished reading this book. It was excellent. Quite a bit of information that addresses some discussion in this thread from 2021 and forward.

I'll bring forward some info from the book about the bindings. The women were both bound and gagged, as we know. One of the bindings was duct tape of an unusual specification. The author of the book says that experts told her it may have been sourced from a European supplier. It appears that this may have been brought to the scene by the offender. One victim's legs were also bound with long thermal-type underwear, which appeared to belong to the women. So, interestingly, the offender appears to have both arrived prepared with bindings AND also fashioned bindings from items available at the scene.

Due to information in the book about the presence of a vibrator (that was "displayed" at the scene) and the "oily substance" noted by the medical examiner present in and around the genital areas of the victims (that didn't match anything in their belongings), I believe this to be a sexually-motivated murder despite the fact that no sexual trauma or semen was detected.

 

[rob525]

This seems like an opportunity for what I call "guerrilla public history," wherein an individual places some kind of marker at a historic site that lacks "official" recognition. In this case, it could be something as simple like a laminated flier attached to a fence or other installations in the park, reminding folks of what happened to Lollie and Julie and asking anyone who recalls visiting the park around the time of their murder to search their memory banks and contact authorities if they have any curious recollections. It's not fancy, but IMO it would be better than nothing...

I once had been thinking of something somewhat similar. A few years ago I was heavily into Geocaching ( not so much now due to recent surgery). For those that don't know, the very brief explanation is that folks place a cache at a site, often in a park along hiking trails etc. They log the GPS coordinates into the web site and others can then find the caches using handheld GPS trackers. Typically, the caches are place at spots with some natural, historical or otherwise significantly interesting spot. Often, cache hiders will come up with a themed series of caches. The whole point is to 1.) Giver folks a reason to get out into nature and 2.) draw attention to an interesting or significant place. My thought was a series of caches placed at sites involving missing persons or cold cases. I thought that it would accomplish both things that you mentioned as well as helping to keep the events in the forefront of folks minds.

 

[JnRyan]

This case, most closely resembles the first case in the Colonial parkway murders, though im not sure they are connected, and Ill start off by saying i dont believe all of the cases involved in the Colonial parkway case are related either.

2 adult female victims i a somewhat remote part of national park
both are lesbian
both are bound
both died from slashing wounds to their throats

No sexual assault or robbery indicated

First I would eliminate anything in their background that may indicate why they became victims (AKA Victimology), id be interested in anyone who knew where they were, did anything change in either of their lives prior to their trip, did anyone want to hurt either one of them, did either of them confide anything in anyone prior to their deaths , how was their relationship together, how was their relationship with each other, their work history, how they were viewed by their peers etc...

Once you know the victims, you can now get a better idea of who may have targetted them.

Theres no sexual assault, so rape can be ruled out , as can robbery unless these things did happen and LE hasnt released it.

But from what we know, they were bound, in their tent, and they had their throats slashed.

Binding multiple victims can be tricky, an offender may have one tie up another at gunpoint but at some pint he either has to check the bindings of the first victim, or put down the weapon to bind the second, theres a moment of risk there for the offender.

Id be interested to know if they were gagged as well.

In terms of risk the victims lived a moderately low risk lifestyle of becoming a victim of violence. Their only 2 risk heightening factors, was being gay in a time of misunderstanding about homosexuality, and at that point being alone .

So how does the offender come into contact with the victims ?

-Did he know they would be there ?
-Did he stalk the victims once he saw them at the park?
-Was he out roaming and saw the opportunity and took it ?

Bindings can tell you A LOT about an offender, the nature of , origin and use of mean a great deal in terms of evidence .

An offender who brings items specifically for the intent of binding a victim, is slightly different psychologically than one who acts impulsively and binds a victim with what is on hand (clothes, wires etc..)

Though the end result is the same, the preparation, or the lack of gives valuable insight into the crime itself .

If this individual brought bindings with him, with the intent to restrain , then you are looking at a more psychopathic type individual. (IE this was planned, and wasn't just an impulse he couldn't control)

If they were bound with items at hand , for ex their clothing, you are most likely looking at someone who for whatever reason impulsively acted in the moment and killed the girls out of anger or to prevent identification. IE they weren't prepared.

It can be tough to discern at times however, as outdoor types will often carry some type of cordage with them to be used for camp uses, that tells a story as well .

If there was no sexual assault, no robbery or any other crime committed, you can focus on murder as the sole factor .

So why were they targeted?

Being gay could be a motive, but so could be being alone , or was it both?

Being isolated certainly factored into it, I feel confident , saying I feel this killer wouldn't have attempted this in a crowded area.

What was it about the isolation that empowered him to murder 2 innocent women?

My guess was that he was familiar with the area, he knew he wasn't going to be disturbed, he knew he could get in and out without raising suspicion.

Id be very interested in any other crimes that were committed within the park especially violent crimes.

Were they killed because they were gay?

If so id look into any other assaults on lesbian or gay couples in the vicinity

Did the killer follow 2 women into the woods to kill them ?, or did the killer come upon them while they were camping ?

As I stated earlier , if the murders were planned, then you are looking for a slightly different type of individual than one who just looses control and acts impulsively

If the murder was unplanned, don't overlook other types of crimes, in the area, robbery, nuisance crimes, fires, break ins, thefts, etc... These types of individuals usually have a criminal history that is all over the place .

And because of their poor impulse control , primarily post offense, they often commit other crimes, the ones we see the most are usually DUI , assaults, theft, destruction of property, or drug related charges.

Therefore the guy who may have stolen something at the local store , or damaged something, or any thing.....may have a little more to tell, especially if its in the vicinity


However unless more facts are released about the murders, the best we can do is guess

If I remember correctly that LE did look at the first set of Colonial Parkway Murders and supposedly there was a park ranger who was employed in both locations during each of the murders.

 

[JnRyan]

During her four-year investigation, Miles approached her quest from multiple perspectives, interviewing the victims’ families, friends and professors, as well as investigators with the National Park Service and the Federal Bureau of Investigation. She gained access to a multitude of documents, not only about the Williams-Winans case but the murders of other women. She asked questions others hadn’t, pursuing details such as the nonstandard width of duct tape used to bind the women, and she obtained a 1990s catalog from a manufacturer of “adult” products to compare crime-scene evidence. She even found and interviewed other hikers who’d been in the park when the pair were murdered, including a group of women who were rebuffed when they tried to report an encounter with a man who knew about the killings before they were made public.

Far from true-crime sensationalism, “Trailed” paints a heartbreaking portrait of two promising young women’s lives cut short and a sobering picture of how murderers slip through cracks in the justice system. Williams, a Carleton College graduate, majored in geology and spent so much time helping women in Mexico that her friends called her a “one-woman Peace Corps.” Drawn to the wilderness, she joined Woodswomen, an organization founded to “buck the longstanding masculine model for getting women outside.” That’s where she met Winans, an environmental studies major, and the two fell in love. Miles suggests the women may have been killed because they were flouting patriarchal norms, not only as lesbians but as women camping without male companionship. Such norms muddy the investigative process, as well as restrict women’s serenity outdoors — a problem worth addressing in its own right, Miles argues.

Review: In true-crime release, journalist Kathryn Miles trails a 1996 cold case

"TRAILED: ONE WOMAN'S QUEST TO SOLVE THE SHENANDOAH MURDERS" by Kathryn Miles (Algonquin Books, 320 pages, $29). Near the end of Kathryn Miles' "Trailed: One Wo

society-mag.com

I just stumbled across this book while researching the Alicia Showalter murder (1996). I'm going to have to track it down.

 

[Kell1]

If I remember correctly that LE did look at the first set of Colonial Parkway Murders and supposedly there was a park ranger who was employed in both locations during each of the murders.

Ive heard similar

 

[missgreenbanks]

If I remember correctly that LE did look at the first set of Colonial Parkway Murders and supposedly there was a park ranger who was employed in both locations during each of the murders.

There were 4 law enforcement rangers who worked the 1986 Colonial Parkway Case who transferred to Shenandoah and were working there in 1996. In the last year FBI Richmond has taken a fresh look at Julie and Lollie’s Case. I heard Kate Mike say in a podcast several months ago that in Summer 2022 a couple of Rangers who had worked in Shenandoah in 96 had their DNA swabbed.

 

[JnRyan]

There were 4 law enforcement rangers who worked the 1986 Colonial Parkway Case who transferred to Shenandoah and were working there in 1996. In the last year FBI Richmond has taken a fresh look at Julie and Lollie’s Case. I heard Kate Mike say in a podcast several months ago that in Summer 2022 a couple of Rangers who had worked in Shenandoah in 96 had their DNA swabbed.

I wasn't aware there were four. I thought I read that the ranger that found the first set of murders was also at Shenandoah.

 

[missgreenbanks]

I wasn't aware there were four. I thought I read that the ranger that found the first set of murders was also at Shenandoah.

Yes that’s right he was one of the four who were also working in Shenandoah in 1996.

 

[dotr]

2021 Author: Bruce Leshan rbbm

Innocence Project says answers to cold case Shenandoah murders may sit buried in FBI evidence locker

The murders of campers Julie Williams and Lollie Winans remain unsolved after 25 years.

www.wusa9.com

''But a lawyer for a man once charged in the deaths said she believes DNA that would lead to the killer of Julie and her partner, Lollie Winans, 26, in Shenandoah National Park in 1996 still sits stashed away, all but untested, in an evidence locker at the FBI lab in Quantico.
"They have male DNA on a gag, they have hairs," said Deirdre Enright, Founder and Director of the Innocence Project at the University of Virginia School of Law.
The last time it was analyzed, Enright said, was about 20 years ago, and at that time, the results failed to pinpoint the killer. But forensic technology has advanced dramatically since then.''


"There’s male DNA on the gag in Julie’s mouth, there are hairs under the duct tape…. they weren’t Darrell Rice’s," Enright said.
Now, the FBI is asking the public for tips on this case.
"Over the past 25 years we are cognizant that those who were hiking in the Park at the time of the murders, were visiting local establishments, and even resided in the area may not be local to Virginia any longer—therefore it is crucial that this case continues to be shared throughout the country," the FBI said in a press release earlier this year. "It is possible there are people anywhere from Virginia to the west coast that could have information valuable to investigators."

 

[billthom56]

I totally agree that the FBI should be be conducting a top to bottom review of the Julie Williams/Lollie Winans evidence.

Bill Thomas, Brother of Cathy Thomas, Colonial Parkway Murders

 

[billthom56]

That is correct, although with advances in DNA testing, it seems likely that this would be worth a second look. All of these cases remain unsolved.


Bill Thomas, Brother of Cathy Thomas, Colonial Parkway Murders

Ive heard similar

 

[Kell1]

That is correct, although with advances in DNA testing, it seems likely that this would be worth a second look. All of these cases remain unsolved.


Bill Thomas, Brother of Cathy Thomas, Colonial Parkway Murders

If there is DNA then absolutely, you know I hope you and your family get the closure and justice you deserve

 

[wary]

Between genetic genealogy, and the ability to get regular DNA from rootless hair, I’d think that it’s time to solve this.

 

[Shade13]

Are they able to do the genealogy research with just a strand of hair? Would be something if they could nail this creep after all these years

 

[dotr]

Are they able to do the genealogy research with just a strand of hair? Would be something if they could nail this creep after all these years

It possibly has already been suggested, but maybe @othram might be able to help?
Unrelated case for example.

Genealogist who found Opelika Jane Doe’s parents breaks down process

After the case went cold for nearly 11 years, Thursday, we finally learned her name -- Amore Wiggins and the name of the man accused of her murder, her father Lamar Vickerstaff Jr.

www.wtvm.com

''Here’s how Dr. Rae-Venter says the technique was used:

With curly hair found at the scene, another forensics company known as Astrea used strands of hair to create a profile of the child’s DNA. Another company known as Othram, used the child’s skeletal remains to create another profile of the her DNA.

Both profiles were then uploaded online to websites like Family Tree DNA and GedMatch, where family trees showing the child’s relatives were then created.''