Verdict: GUILTY for both Millard and Smich of 1st degree murder #2

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[video=youtube;MB8he-iEyyY]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MB8he-iEyyY[/video]
 
[video=youtube;24j1gHZC6yA]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=24j1gHZC6yA[/video]
 
Inspector_North said:
Thanks for that thought. I will be watching the CN trial closely, and if they prove she knew more about the murder, then that remark may become clearer.

As leaf_fan93 posted, it may have just been hidden instructions on how to respond to LE and possibly when on the stand. However he was a bit more explicit with his other instructions.

I'll keep circling this one for a while longer.

MOO
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Good to hear, Inspector. I will be too.

I wonder when our mods will open up the Laura Babcock threads again, and begin a new one for Noudga? Any idea?


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jbelle said:
People asked the wrong question since the beginning of this whole mess, "why kill an innocent man over a used truck?" Thing is, it was NEVER going to just be ONE truck. DM wanted to build his criminal empire.
We saw evidence he was feeling AM out with his "you might not like my methods" speech (paraphrasing). DM was recruiting, he wasn't just going to spring a murder on SM out of the blue.
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Exactly the stance I took to convince myself that it was premeditated. They were building a 'killing system", and TB was their first stranger. If you were looking for evidence that murdering TB was premeditated, there is little to be found. If you were looking for premeditated murder for whomever stood in their way of empire building, there was plenty

"Take it from the source" was a key indicator that these criminals were stepping it up.

MOO
 
Was anyone watching CP24 at about 5:30 pm yesterday, after the verdicts and the sentencing?

In particular when lawyer Ari Goldkind was commenting?

The reason I ask is this:

Remember when Alex Pierson was saying that (paraphrasing) people are going to be very shocked when the story comes out about how the DM letters were smuggled? At that time she said something like "I mean, not necessarily regarding this particular case." I thought was interesting at the time, because to me it inferred the possibility of some kind systemic breach within the jail itself.

ETA: This post has the exact quote of AP's original comment:
http://www.websleuths.com/forums/sh...-of-1st-degree-murder&p=12635767#post12635767


Anyhow, at the very end of Ari Goldkind's commentary last night, he spoke about this a little more, and said things that made me think that some guards were involved, although I can't remember his exact phrasing.

Have tried to find a video clip to post, but no luck yet. Sorry.

MOO




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Inspector_North said:
There is only few pieces of evidence that has me really scratching my head about what happened on that test drive. One of them I keep pondering is the letter from DM to CN about cleaning up MS's mess.

Why would he say that to her? The letter was never intended to be evidence. That remark does not make any sense as intentional misleading when those letters were so damaging to his defense.

There was plenty of evidence to show both were partners in this murder and received what they deserved, but that remark may be a glimpse into who was the shooter.

Thoughts?

MOO
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there was the theory (by Andrew?) that MS was supposed to restrain or incapacitate TB early in the test drive so that they could get him to the farm before shooting him. In that case, the fact that TB was shot in the truck (because he escaped bonds or regained consciousness?) would indicate that MS failed to keep him under control until they reached the farm. Hence the 'need' to shoot in the truck - Mark's mess.
100% speculation due to the request for tape (to bind?) but plausible. I don't think they planned to shoot him in the truck.
 
canadiangirl said:
The maximum sentence AATF would allow.
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Respectfully, if I get you right, after all the evidence that you saw presented at trial related to the murder of Tim Bosma before, during and after, you still think that Smich should be given the maximum sentence for Acccesory After the Fact-----You recognize of course that that is the same charge that Christina Noudga is facing for her involvement afterwards in hiding the truck, gun, DVR and whatever she did that required black nitrile gloves..all clearly done after the fact.

You do realize that in order to arrive ar your suggestion of AFFT, a jury would have to completely ignore every shred of evidence having to do with premeditation and planning that preceded this murder......a jury would have to ignore all of the evidence from the time that cell phones showed Smich and Millard travelling closer and closer to Tim Bosma's and everything in between until the two accused headed for the farm after the stop at the Bobcat dealership ??? Do you realize that by choosing AATF you are suggesting that Smich was only responsible for his actions from what----maybe the time they got to the barn and he opened the gate....hooked up the incinerator...etc etc etc....and then put in pretty much just a few more hours of cleanup that evening and over the next few days???

I guess I could understand if you were trying to distinguish between 1st Degree--pre-meditated and planned versus 1st Degree--aiding & abetting. I guess I could understand if you were thinking that 2nd Degree would have been more appropriate......but AATF??? That was never going to happen...not now and not in anyone's wildest dreams. It was not even a possibility available to the jury. The stories that the jury never heard will continue streaming out in the days to come and perhaps that will give you a new perspective on Smich's conviction. And then there is the LB trial coming up in early 2017 and the murder charges against Smich.
In the meanwhile, there are many of us who have spent days, weeks and months on WS reading, studying and learning and burning the candle at both ends trying to come to a clearer understanding of ever facet of this case and trial. There has been intense dialogue and discussion at times but in the end we have been united in wanting to see truth and justice. Now we have earned the right to join in the celebration with the Bosma family and army in what can only be seen as a victory and answer to prayer.
The accused have had almost 5 months of our undivided attention <modsnip>.
 
palisadesk said:
Adam Carter explained in that Facebook CBC video that MB could not have attended court whether she wanted to or not, because she had been subpoenaed as a Crown witness. Though the Crown didn't end up calling her, according to Carter this meant she could not attend court.

Here's a link, the statement about MB is in the second half somewhere.

https://www.facebook.com/cbchamilton/videos/1073849232701215/
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Once testimony was over and she had not been called, could she not have been in court for the verdict? Closing arguments?
 
Miranda16 said:
there was the theory (by Andrew?) that MS was supposed to restrain or incapacitate TB early in the test drive so that they could get him to the farm before shooting him. In that case, the fact that TB was shot in the truck (because he escaped bonds or regained consciousness?) would indicate that MS failed to keep him under control until they reached the farm. Hence the 'need' to shoot in the truck - Mark's mess.
100% speculation due to the request for tape (to bind?) but plausible. I don't think they planned to shoot him in the truck.
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I believe that was me. Something I still believe happened. There are parts of MS'S testimony I do believe which supports this. IMO, he forgot to tell us HIS part in it though.
 
Tealgrove said:
Once testimony was over and she had not been called, could she not have been in court for the verdict? Closing arguments?
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Yes, she could have been. I remember Susan Clairmont said that MB could be there after all the testimony was finished.


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Inspector_North said:
Exactly the stance I took to convince myself that it was premeditated. They were building a 'killing system", and TB was their first stranger. If you were looking for evidence that murdering TB was premeditated, there is little to be found. If you were looking for premeditated murder for whomever stood in their way of empire building, there was plenty

"Take it from the source" was a key indicator that these criminals were stepping it up.

MOO
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BBM
So if I understand you correctly, you convinced yourself it was premeditated and there was little evidence to be found in premeditation in the case of TB. I'm sorry to say but both those comments indicate there is room for doubt.
 
paris_paris said:
http://http://m.thespec.com/news-story/6721069-clairmont-details-the-judge-forbade-the-bosma-jury-from-hearing

What happened thet all of these new charges happened on the same day? Sorry I can't quote the part I want from my phone. DM's new murder charges and MS. CN's charges and MWJ and 2 other guys. Did somebody spill a lot of info?
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I must re-read the forum rules as I don't want to get put in the corner but...
Week 49 comments on MWJ insta account gives details. From what the person commented, MWJ allegedly sold guns which killed 2 ppl and someone sniched. (Not exact words but idk how to copy and paste from insta).
Please excuse my ignorance if this isn't allowed :(
 
MrsThreadgoode said:
A while ago, I remember reading an article about Wayne Millard's death, and I was shocked to read that the pathologist had NOT YET ruled the death as suicide, so WM's body should never have been taken to the crematorium until the pathologist's paperwork was finalized.

DId I dream this? Can someone possibly supply a link? I have searched and searched with no success.

TIA

Also, how could it possibly happen that a body is released from the morgue to be cremated, even though final approval wasn't given? Human error?
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Not sure if this is the same one . . .

http://www.annrbrocklehurst.com/tag/wayne-millard

"[FONT=&amp]When I visited Toronto police headquarters in February to pick up some documents, I dropped by the media office to try once again to find out if there was anything at all they could tell me about the initial handling of the Babcock and Wayne Millard investigations. Would it be possible, for example, to say whether detectives looking into Wayne&#8217;s death knew about Dellen allegedly messing with his tenant&#8217;s car? Or could police explain why Wayne&#8217;s body was released for cremation when the coroner&#8217;s office said in May that the investigation into his death was still open?"[/FONT]
 
canadiangirl said:
In some ways I've always felt this was the Dellen Millard show. Even on websleuths it was "Dellen Millard on trial for the death of" ..... Facebook. "Dellen Millard discuss the case" ...
Headlines.. Dellen Millard murder. Dellen Millard privileged life. Dellen Millard.. Murder of LB. Dellen Millard, ran nighttime missions. And so on and so on... AC wrote his "Wayward Son" piece about him. (great read btw).

Both the media and crown's witnesses heavily focused on Dellen Millard. MH. AM. SS. CN. AJ.

Many many people have commented how manipulative the guy is. The tangled web he weaved. He dragged in the likes of his uncle, his gf, and even his own mother to clean up/cover up his mess.

I'm not surprised at all that Smich will appeal. It also wouldn't surprise me if he won. MOO
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On what grounds?
 
canadiangirl said:
Snipped for space
Respectfully the jury was given the option of guilty or not guilty. AATF may have been a charge after a not guilty of M1 verdict IMO. I was asked what verdict I thought was fitting for MS. You do understand that's what reasonable doubt means?
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Susan Clairmont's answer to someone who asked whether MS could be charged with AATF if he was acquitted was NO.

She didn't specify why but maybe because of the protection provided by the Canada Evidence Act.
 
canadiangirl said:
BBM
So if I understand you correctly, you convinced yourself it was premeditated and there was little evidence to be found in premeditation in the case of TB. I'm sorry to say but both those comments indicate there is room for doubt.
Click to expand...

The way I read Inspector North's post was that he was stating there was evidence beyond a reasonable doubt to show premeditation on both DM's and MS's parts regarding murdering someone/anyone ... Not that their plans specified Tim Bosma in particular ... just that it could have been anyone.

MOO


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