Viable Suspect: John Mark Byers

[Compassionate Reader]

As I have said before about DE, I understand and accept that JMB should have been investigated. He is the father of one of the victims. That alone puts him on the suspect list, and that fact should have put someone else on the wmpd's suspect list, but it didn't. However, at least for me, JMB's timeline rules him out as the actual perpetrator. AFAIK, he was with someone else from 5:30 pm on May 5, 1993 until the bodies were found the next day. That is why I consider looking at him as the perpetrator now to be a waste of time. As to Melissa's death, again AFAIK it is still listed as "undetermined" by the police. Is that odd? Maybe. However, IMO, that has nothing to do with the deaths of Christopher, Michael and Steven. IMO, at this point, we should focus on those who had means, motive and opportunity to commit these murders. IMO, JMB is ruled out on opportunity.

 

[carillion]

An undetermined cause of death is actually not all that strange. There are always deaths that the exact cause cant' be determined. I don't know how honest and accurate JMB was about her past drug use/addiction problems, but that could certainly be a contributing factor, even if she had been clean for years prior. I agree that he has a good timeline alibi, but I can't actually shake the feeling that he knew more than he was letting on. Maybe after the fact, but I do doubt his total honesty in this.

Of course, right about now, I doubt anyone's total honesty in this, so that's not saying much. Holy cow I haven't seen this many lies, drugs, or hidden agendas outside of government scandal! It boggles my mind. I have had to start a separate notebook for each person, just to keep track, and then a big old 5 subject sucker for the main "timeline" information from all the suspects and the poor boys. My brain hasn't screamed this much since high school trig!

 

[Compassionate Reader]

An undetermined cause of death is actually not all that strange. There are always deaths that the exact cause cant' be determined. I don't know how honest and accurate JMB was about her past drug use/addiction problems, but that could certainly be a contributing factor, even if she had been clean for years prior. I agree that he has a good timeline alibi, but I can't actually shake the feeling that he knew more than he was letting on. Maybe after the fact, but I do doubt his total honesty in this.

Of course, right about now, I doubt anyone's total honesty in this, so that's not saying much. Holy cow I haven't seen this many lies, drugs, or hidden agendas outside of government scandal! It boggles my mind. I have had to start a separate notebook for each person, just to keep track, and then a big old 5 subject sucker for the main "timeline" information from all the suspects and the poor boys. My brain hasn't screamed this much since high school trig!

You're right about "undetermined" as a COD not being all that uncommon. I remember now having read that somewhere but I'd forgotten. FWIW, I think that this situation could be a government scandal, just not a Federal one but a State or local one. JMO.

 

[Compassionate Reader]

An undetermined cause of death is actually not all that strange. There are always deaths that the exact cause cant' be determined. I don't know how honest and accurate JMB was about her past drug use/addiction problems, but that could certainly be a contributing factor, even if she had been clean for years prior. I agree that he has a good timeline alibi, but I can't actually shake the feeling that he knew more than he was letting on. Maybe after the fact, but I do doubt his total honesty in this.

Of course, right about now, I doubt anyone's total honesty in this, so that's not saying much. Holy cow I haven't seen this many lies, drugs, or hidden agendas outside of government scandal! It boggles my mind. I have had to start a separate notebook for each person, just to keep track, and then a big old 5 subject sucker for the main "timeline" information from all the suspects and the poor boys. My brain hasn't screamed this much since high school trig!

You're right about "undetermined" as a COD not being all that uncommon. I remember now having read that somewhere but I'd forgotten. FWIW, I think that this situation could be a government scandal, just not a Federal one but a State or local one. JMO.

 

[carillion]

Miranda thanks for clearing that up. I suppose I too didn't make clear that I wasn't proclaiming his guilt. There are many things about this case that bug me, not the least of which is the "selective" police work done (like not interviewing all people in each house the boys came from as the tip of the iceberg!), the weight Jerry Driver seemed to carry, and the ramblings of a mail order PhD about Satanism and witchcraft. It's good to know I wasn't alone in my thinking all these years

 

[carillion]

FWIW, I think that this situation could be a government scandal, just not a Federal one but a State or local one. JMO.

I think if it ISN"T a government scandal, it should be!

 

[Ausgirl]

I don't think it's a "waste of time" at all. I don't consider him "ruled out" by the timeline. There's inconsistencies that *could* provide opportunity. A little busy with other things at this moment, however I think I'll make a post outlining the possibilities there soon.

The "waste of time" and "entertainment" comments are frankly starting to remind me a bit of kyle. Just sayin'. There's no need to insult or demean other posters or their efforts, in order to make your point.

 

[Ausgirl]

Carillion, glad you're still at it. And you know among my various rambling mental journeys trying to piece this all together, I have pondered a 'payback' angle - even considered that if one wanted to frame JMB up for something guaranteed to put him away for a good stretch (since his other crimes never seemed to) this would be it. I was thinking, someone saw him rampaging around looking for Chris, maybe heard him bellowing about wanting to hit the boy again, and saw an opportunity. But it backfired. Not a serious thought (ie, no need for derision..), but my mind does stay open to any possibility; we just never know when someone might come forward with startling new info, it's happened on plenty of other cases, some much older than this one.

 

[carillion]

It's happened in this case, so I definitely wouldn't rule it out. Another thought that might go along with it is that someone who doesn't even know the family witnessed the spanking or punishment, and used it as an excuse. Far fetched as it is, son of sam claimed the neighbor's dog told him to do it, so anything is possible. There are so many aspects of behavior, environment, cause and effect, and whatnot to this case, I have a hard time ruling anyone out at this point. And that includes the WM3. Logically I don't think they did it, but sorting through all the information has me bouncing from pillar to post a lot. Just like logically I don't think that JMB actually killed the boys, but his past and behavior gives me pause from time to time.

And just to clear up, I wasn't trying to insult or demean you at all!! I am so sorry it came across that way. I am actually open to almost any and all possibilities. I am not waving a flag for the WM3, rather I am seeking the truth, and justice for those 3 little boys. Not that I expect to solve this case myself, but to follow along and maybe contribute a tiny bit to it being solved.

 

[Compassionate Reader]

If you compare JMB's initial statement (May 19, 1993) to his declaration for the Pasdar trial (May 19, 2009), you will not find discrepancies for the times on May 5, 1993. Here is a rundown:

9 am - 2:45 pm: in clinic in Memphis getting tests re: brain tumor

3:10 pm: got home, no Chris

3:30 or 3:35 pm: Ryan got home, looked for Chris w/JMB until 3:50 pm

3:50 pm: took Ryan to court to testify as witness in unrelated incident; stayed w/Ryan until 4:50 pm

4:50 pm: left to pick up Melissa from work; when they arrived home, discovered that Chris had attempted to break into house; JMB found Chris riding skateboard on stomach down street; spanked him and told him to clean up carport

5:30 pm: left to get Ryan from court

6:30 pm: arrived back home; Chris gone; Ryan, JMB and Melissa began searching for Chris

7:30 pm: talked to a black policeman at Dollar General Store; cop told him not to report Chris missing 'til 8:00 pm; continued searching w/Ryan and Melissa

8:00 pm: called to report Christopher missing; Off Meeks arrived at 8:08 pm to take MPR; Dana Moore arrives and tells him that Christopher is w/Steven and Michael and was seen going into RHH area; start door-to-door search; talked to "little black girl and boy" who said they saw boys going into RHH at 6:30 pm

8:30 pm: continued searching RHH area, but not near discovery area; TH shows up and volunteers to look in discovery area; JMB goes home to change clothes and enlists Officer Moore to help in search because he had a flashlight

10:30 pm: Officer Moore tells JMB to call Meeks and ask about progress; JMB calls sheriff's office and asks about Search and Rescue; keeps looking w/others; parks silver car near BB truck stop and talks to employees; meets up w/Jackie Hicks and Dana Moore; searching continues with JH, DM, TH, DJ and wife

1:30 or 1:45 am: met Sgt. Ball who suggests searching abandoned buildings; Tony Hudson now joins search

sometime between 2:00 am and 3:00 am: got home w/Melissa and waited for daylight

daylight: resumed searching w/ TH, TM and DM

7:30 or 8:00 am: went to school w/other parents to see if boys arrived

9:30 or 10:00 am: informed that boat from S & R was going into bayou; sat on bank w/Steve Branch, TH and JH to see what was found.

I'm sorry, but I don't see any time frame in which he could kill the boys.

 

[Ausgirl]

It's happened in this case, so I definitely wouldn't rule it out. Another thought that might go along with it is that someone who doesn't even know the family witnessed the spanking or punishment, and used it as an excuse. Far fetched as it is, son of sam claimed the neighbor's dog told him to do it, so anything is possible. There are so many aspects of behavior, environment, cause and effect, and whatnot to this case, I have a hard time ruling anyone out at this point. And that includes the WM3. Logically I don't think they did it, but sorting through all the information has me bouncing from pillar to post a lot. Just like logically I don't think that JMB actually killed the boys, but his past and behavior gives me pause from time to time.

There sure is a lot to take in. And yep, I also include the WM3, though they (as a group) are not high on my list at this point.

And just to clear up, I wasn't trying to insult or demean you at all!! I am so sorry it came across that way. I am actually open to almost any and all possibilities. I am not waving a flag for the WM3, rather I am seeking the truth, and justice for those 3 little boys. Not that I expect to solve this case myself, but to follow along and maybe contribute a tiny bit to it being solved.

Oh, I didn't think so at all. And yeah, I doubt *anyone* on a forum will solve this (or off one, for that matter, with the present information) but that doesn't mean all the possibilities cannot be pondered.

 

[Ausgirl]

CR - thank you, for that listing. I agree, not very much room for a window of opportunity. If we accept that TOD was prior to 6.30 pm (which is when, according to jivepuppy's site, the windows open up a little bit due to uncorroborated/conflicting info as to who was where and when, and with whom) then it's very, very narrow indeed.

If we accept that JMB was in the company of Melissa all the while after Christopher was spanked and sent to clean the carport, and then left the house at 5.30 then that rules out a lot of time.

The travel time to court was only 10 mins. "At 3:50PM, Mark Byers drove Ryan Byers to the courthouse for a 4:00PM appointment where Ryan was a witness at a trial. "

So it would seem the only window presently that I can see is after JMB left to collect to Ryan from court. This for some reason took an hour, not the 20 mins up and back. I as yet cannot locate a statement as to the precise time Ryan was picked up.

Very narrow, indeed.

 

[Ausgirl]

May 5th: 3 pm until dawn May 6th.

3:10 - 3:30 pm Mark Byers statement: Got home from clinic. Chris didn't have key to house. Mark arranged for Ryan to let Christopher in the house on days Mark wasn't there. Ryan wasn't yet there. Corroboration: Ryan notes he got there at 3:38 (referenced below). Chris's grandfather gave this version: "I was on my way up to the schoolhouse, which was right near their, you know, when Mark saw me and told me he was going to pick up Chris by himself." DK, p 312.
3:30 - 3:50 pm Mark Byers statement: Ryan arrives. Ryan waits with Mark for Chris until 3:50. Corroboration: Ryan Clark interview notes: "States he got home at exactly 3:38pm. -- Chris was not @ home."
3:50 - 4:50 pm Mark Byers statement: Takes Ryan to court. Stays at court until 4:50. Corroboration: Christine Roberts (below). Ryan Clark, interview notes: "Ryan had to be in court @ 4:00pm. --his dad took him. Dad dropped him off @ court [no mention of Mark Byers staying with him for nearly an hour]."
4:50 - 5:10 pm Mark Byers statement: Goes to pick up Melissa Byers from work in Memphis. Corroboration: Ryan Clark, interview notes: "[Dad] told Ryan he was going to go pick his mom up from work and go look for Chris. Notes, Christine Roberts (neighbor) says: ". . .were at court with Chris father and left 5:00"
5:10 - 5:30 pm Mark Byers statement: Returns from Memphis with Melissa. Finds Chris has tried to break into house. Corroboration: Statement, Ryan Clark: "Dad told him that Chris had broken a seal on the window to get into the house." Testimony, Melissa Byers: "Melissa
from jivepuppi - http://www.jivepuppi.com/john_mark_byers_2.html

Byers: - And I got home around 5:20 - you know, between 5:00 and 5:30, I got home - sometime - you know, and I - Fogleman: - And how did you get home? Melissa Byers: My husband came and picked me up from work." Notes, Christine Roberts, neighbor: "[Mark Byers, upon returning to court] saying he was pissed off at Chris about breaking out window + taking food."
around 5:30 pm Mark Byers statement: Leaves Melissa, goes to get Ryan at court. Finds Chris in street on skateboard. Returns to house with Chris. Punishes Chris "2 or 3 licks." Corroboration: Melissa Byers corroborates Chris returning to house and punishment by Mark Byers. Melissa Byers, court testimony: "Fogleman: Ok. And did Christopher come home? Melissa Byers: Yes, my husband brought him home. [snip] Fogleman: Did he get spanked? Melissa Byers: Yes he did, uh Fogleman: Ok. Melissa Byers: He got a good talking to and then uh - about three swats with a belt 'cause he could have been run over." Notes, neighbor, friend, Bobby Posey: "Daddy whipped him + was going run away."
5:30 - 6:00 pm Mark Byers statement: Mark left home to get stepson Ryan at court. Chris under carport. Returned with Ryan. Statement, Ryan Clark: said they returned 5:30 to 6:00, closer to 6:00. Testimony, Melissa Byers: "Byers: My husband left to go back to court to sit with my son, and Christopher was given a paper sack to go out under the carport and pick up paper and stuff. You know, as part of his punishment." Christine Roberts, notes: "[Mark Byers] returne (sic) [to court] 6:30."
approx. 6:00 to 6:30 pm Mark Byers statement: Began looking for Chris around house and calling to neighbors. Corroboration: Statements, Melissa Byers and Ryan Clark.

 

[Userid]

^ In the "Summary, Overview and Corroboration" section on that jivepuppi page, the author himself even calls Byers' timeline "anemic" and lists the reasons why.

In the "Summary of Times" section, there are a plethora of red flags, particularly the key times of 10:15 to Midnight; Midnight to 2 am; and 3 to 6 am (when he actually places himself in the discovery woods).

I can understand if you think JMB had nothing to do with it, directly, but I have problems when people try to use his alibi to justify such a sentiment. This is anything but an air-tight alibi.

 

[Userid]

An undetermined cause of death is actually not all that strange. There are always deaths that the exact cause cant' be determined. I don't know how honest and accurate JMB was about her past drug use/addiction problems, but that could certainly be a contributing factor, even if she had been clean for years prior. I agree that he has a good timeline alibi, but I can't actually shake the feeling that he knew more than he was letting on. Maybe after the fact, but I do doubt his total honesty in this.

Of course, right about now, I doubt anyone's total honesty in this, so that's not saying much. Holy cow I haven't seen this many lies, drugs, or hidden agendas outside of government scandal! It boggles my mind. I have had to start a separate notebook for each person, just to keep track, and then a big old 5 subject sucker for the main "timeline" information from all the suspects and the poor boys. My brain hasn't screamed this much since high school trig!

Yes, yes, yes -- phenomenal post. I get that impression too -- that he's hiding something or knows more than he's letting on, for fear of other repercussions that would stem from his withheld knowledge (especially in MB's case). I also think, like many people in this case, that he's downplaying certain things -- specifically, the abuse of CB. I think the abuse was much more severe than he let on.

 

[Justiceseeker35]

8:30 pm: continued searching RHH area, but not near discovery area; TH shows up and volunteers to look in discovery area; JMB goes home to change clothes and enlists Officer Moore to help in search because he had a flashlight


I have a huge problem with this statement. This places TH in the discovery area alone able to "clear" it to the authorities and parents and quickly push back down any evidence floating up to the surface. Once its cleared he can come back easily to recheck it during the night. This is tons of red flags though not about JMB.

 

[Graznik]

CR - thank you, for that listing. I agree, not very much room for a window of opportunity. If we accept that TOD was prior to 6.30 pm (which is when, according to jivepuppy's site, the windows open up a little bit due to uncorroborated/conflicting info as to who was where and when, and with whom) then it's very, very narrow indeed.

If we accept that JMB was in the company of Melissa all the while after Christopher was spanked and sent to clean the carport, and then left the house at 5.30 then that rules out a lot of time.

The travel time to court was only 10 mins. "At 3:50PM, Mark Byers drove Ryan Byers to the courthouse for a 4:00PM appointment where Ryan was a witness at a trial. "

So it would seem the only window presently that I can see is after JMB left to collect to Ryan from court. This for some reason took an hour, not the 20 mins up and back. I as yet cannot locate a statement as to the precise time Ryan was picked up.

Very narrow, indeed.

I'm gonna assume that you mean time of death when you write TOD, and I apologise if I have gotten the wrong end of the stick here (I'm tired, it's probable, and I've never gotten the hang of abbreviations). TOD has been estimated to around midnight or the small hours of may 6th, IIRC. The last sightings of the boys are reported to have taken place around 6.30 PM. There is no way that it could have been before 6.30 PM. However, an initial attack could have occurred around that time, and one would assume that it would occur before dark or around sunset, as at least I find it logical that three eight year olds would not be too keen on being out and about for too long once it was dark. Especially not in a wooded area. Anyhow, rambling and speculating now.

Furthermore, I must add that JMB is not on my suspect list whatsoever and never has been. I won't elaborate however, as that's not what the thread is about.

 

[Justiceseeker35]

I'm gonna assume that you mean time of death when you write TOD, and I apologise if I have gotten the wrong end of the stick here (I'm tired, it's probable, and I've never gotten the hang of abbreviations). TOD has been estimated to around midnight or the small hours of may 6th, IIRC. The last sightings of the boys are reported to have taken place around 6.30 PM. There is no way that it could have been before 6.30 PM. However, an initial attack could have occurred around that time, and one would assume that it would occur before dark or around sunset, as at least I find it logical that three eight year olds would not be too keen on being out and about for too long once it was dark. Especially not in a wooded area. Anyhow, rambling and speculating now.

Furthermore, I must add that JMB is not on my suspect list whatsoever and never has been. I won't elaborate however, as that's not what the thread is about.

I'm actually starting to think tod occurred sometime around 8 pm. The water, crime scene contamination, a rookie medical examiner factored into not pining down exact tod and perhaps not placing it right at 12 hours post discovery. I kept thinking bodies found at 2 pm must have occurred at 2 am because of rigor, but what if its 18 hours instead of 12 hours, a lot of environmental factors in play. The easiest scenario is attacked near the creek bed maybe up near the man hole and dragged to the water to hide the evidence all before sun set. Lead the search party away from the discovery site.

 

[Graznik]

Oh really? What steered you in that direction?

What with the activity in the area around that time, I would think it would be a little early for all that to have happened. Also, we have the affidavit of (I believe) Lt. Slater who claimed to have searched the spot where the bodies were found at around 5 in the morning without noticing anything in the (shallow) water. Now he might be mistaken for all we know, but it does indicate that the perp might have disposed of the bodies much later. All ifs and buts though, just like with the TOD.

 

[carillion]

I wonder if anyone took the water temperature? if they knew the water low temp over that night, and the core temps of the victims, they would stand a much better chance of establishing a better TOD. The killers decision to put these kids in the water was the single smartest thing to evade capture that he could have done. It makes establishing TOD difficult, the post mortem injuries totally threw the coroner, washed away trace evidence, etc. I can't help but feel that had the boys never been put in the creek, this would have had an entirely different outcome.