Viable Suspect: John Mark Byers

[Graznik]

Although I probably wouldn't rate this as a source, as it has several inaccuracies (it doesn't even get names right...) , it states that body temperatures were never taken and mentions some of the difficulties with estimating TOD.
http://www.crimelibrary.com/notorious_murders/famous/memphis/discovery_3.html
It was just what popped up after a quick Google search, might not be correct.

 

[Miranda!]

The bodies did not reach the Coroner's lab for quite a while, plus they were out on the bank for a good while. So even had the lab taken core temp, on arrival, it would not have been indicative of anything unless extremely odd - and even then that would not have helped them join any dots up! Amyway no water temperature taken nor any sample sent to labs!

Furthermore, I must add that JMB is not on my suspect list whatsoever and never has been. I won't elaborate however, as that's not what the thread is about.

Unless Ausgirl disagrees, it is very much on topic as the matter under discussion is the 'viability' and your reasons would argue against that in such a way that is not using opinion that it is someone else who did it! But this is only as I see it. So could well be wrong!

When I first strted reading up and following this case it never occurred to me that any sort of corruption could be behind anything. I just felt inordinantly sorry for the community having such a joke as a police department and elected officers of the courts. Now I am starting to think that there is a distinct possiblity that the wmpd, or some of them, were making a very determined effort to distract and deflect attention away from someone or some place or a combination and more than one person.

Things are by no means perfect over here. A rape case has just been aborted as the Judge wasseen to have appeared to have gone to sleep during the cross of the victim. A rather critical time in any sex crime. A new tiral is going to be started asap.

 

[Ausgirl]

Hey, things are not perfect here either. I just last night threw a ragefit over on the Jenny Cook thread at the way some pretty analogous police bungling has caused a case to remain uninvestigated as it should have been - ie, properly. So a very likely suspect is never considered one, that is that. And as we have to assume that most of these LE people are not mentally challenged and may even actually be quite intelligent, to get so many things wrong all at once and all on one case can only suggest duplicity in some regard. Even if it's simply covering their own corrupt butts. The end result is the same, the case isn't dealt with properly, a killer walks free. It just rankles me so bad.

And yeah, arguing against viability is cool by me, really as long it's on topic and doesn't veer off into discussion of another suspect. I'm tired of every thread being derailed, it gets very very tedious.

And if we can't accept time of death was prior to 6.30 pm, then there *are* a few inconsistencies with JMB's whereabouts and times to consider. Not many. But then, how long would a person need?

 

[Graznik]

And yeah, arguing against viability is cool by me, really as long it's on topic and doesn't veer off into discussion of another suspect. I'm tired of every thread being derailed, it gets very very tedious.

Okay, then all I can really do is add my two cents which aren't really elaborate at all.

His alibi is mostly consistent, especially for what I would consider crucial hours. I do believe that some time would be needed to both commit the murders and then dump the bodies, as I don't believe that the ditch was the crime scene. There would either need to be a massive gap in the evening to both commit the crime and dump the bodies, which I don't think would be possible due to people searching, or a gap in the evening and then a gap in the early hours/morning of the 6th. Now some people might point out inconsistencies for JMB's whereabouts in the evening, but as the perp would also need to dump the bodies the inconsistencies are not considerable enough. Add to that, he has a solid alibi for the early hours/morning. So that's the "logic" out of the way.

Now a lot of people has tried to cast doubt regarding his character throughout the years. What I saw in PL1 and 2 was a father going mad with grief, and that's that. You don't always make sense in a situation like that, and I don't blame or judge him one bit. Furthermore, he was the only father interogated by the police, did nothing but cooperate when it came to proving his innocence (putting himself up for lie detectors etc.) and has been put under so much scrutiny over the years.

And lets face it, IMHO, there are better suspects out there. Suspects who have gaps in their alibis for crucial hours, have proven themselves to be of doubtful character in ways that could be important in a case like this and who haven't been investigated or interrogated throughout the years. Let's focus on that instead.

 

[ScarlettScarpetta]

Okay, then all I can really do is add my two cents which aren't really elaborate at all.

His alibi is mostly consistent, especially for what I would consider crucial hours. I do believe that some time would be needed to both commit the murders and then dump the bodies, as I don't believe that the small creek was the crime scene. There would either need to be a massive gap in the evening to both commit the crime and dump the bodies, which I don't think would be possible due to people searching, or a gap in the evening and then a gap in the early hours/morning of the 6th. Now some people might point out inconsistencies for JMB's whereabouts in the evening, but as the perp would also need to dump the bodies the inconsistencies are not considerable enough. Add to that, he has a solid alibi for the early hours/morning. So that's the "logic" out of the way.

Now a lot of people has tried to cast doubt regarding his character throughout the years. What I saw in PL1 and 2 was a father going mad with grief, and that's that. You don't always make sense in a situation like that, and I don't blame or judge him one bit. Furthermore, he was the only father interogated by the police, did nothing but cooperate when it came to proving his innocence (putting himself up for lie detectors etc.) and has been put under so much scrutiny over the years.

And lets face it, IMHO, there are better suspects out there. Suspects who have gaps in their alibis for crucial hours, have proven themselves to be of doubtful character in ways that could be important in a case like this and who haven't been investigated or interrogated throughout the years. Let's focus on that instead.

I think at most he is a social misfit that is not incredibly intelligent but not a killer. There is nothing that points to him. Nothing. The evidence we have points to only one step father. And it ain't him.

 

[shadoworder]

How do you know he lied? Not that I can really see any lie per se being told here. Is it not possible that his wife did not worry or involve him on every time that Chris ran a bit late? Especially if it did not impinge on family plans - as it did on this occasion. If one partner has a different perception of an event to the other - does it mean one has to be lying?

I suppose you could try to make a case for search as seen with 'worried' man hanging out with a friend and playing guitar vs. a man, totally unconcerned, trying to get the Search & Rescue people out that evening. But strikes me it would be a bit like rolling a snowball up the side of the Grand Canyon.

Have you ever been filmed at a sensitive moment like that? It may well be 'faked' in that those visits to the grave usually made him cry so the time the cameras are there he tries to replicate what normally happens. Just an idea. Most actors get scripts, read-throughs, rehearsals ad nauseum. Not to mention direction and the chance of re-takes until the light goes. I would tend to think that there will not have been too many demands for re-takes of the grave side scene.




For the record, TWH's 'relaxed' conversation with wmpd was in 2007, rather than 2004, after the EDT alerted the public that he had never actually been interviewed by the police back in 1993.

For the record, TWH's 'relaxed' conversation with wmpd was in 2007, rather than 2004, after the EDT alerted the public that he had never actually been interviewed by the police back in 1993.[/QUOTE]



How do I know he lied??Because he did! If he claims he was worried because his son hadn't stayed out late before, when in fact he had, then he was being dishonest. I find it hard to understand why Melissa would keep something like that from him, an 8 year old kid staying out late is hardly something you wouldn't mention. Plus JMB was underemployed, so he probably would've been home on those days. But lets say you're right, and she had never mentioned that to him before, certainly the day he was missing she would've mentioned that, at the very least to calm JMB down, so yeah, I'm not really buying that, sorry. It's just like his asking the police the night of may 5th if it were possible they had drowned, why on earth would anyone be thinking along those lines? They had only been missing a few hours, and CB had done that before, so that's very suspicious to me. Yeah Terry Hobbs behavior was pretty odd in itself. But it wasn't his kid who got the worst beating, or that bled to death. Also we know that JMB was angry at his kid earlier in the day, and had even violently spanked him. Its easy to imagine him coming home later, and becoming even more enraged at discovering CB had blatantly disobeyed him, and had run off with his pals.
Documentaries don't use scripts or multiple retakes, they are supposed to be as real as possible. JMB pretending to be devastated only makes him look more like a guilty Sociopath, who we all know are not good at showing real emotion. If I, God forbid, was ever in a similar situation to JMB, and I was filmed at the grave of a deceased loved one, I might cry a lot, or I might show little emotion, but what I wouldn't do is pretend to be grieving.
Look at the footage and decide for yourself, it starts at 5:21
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SK0f5zNtXq0

 

[Miranda!]

How do I know he lied??Because he did! If he claims he was worried because his son hadn't stayed out late before, when in fact he had, then he was being dishonest.

And you KNOW this? OK.

I guess there are some couples around who do fill each other in with every bit of the minutae of their day. Even little things that might cause a nano second of stress, even if the husband has a brain tumour. Your use of the word 'keep', as applied to Melissa Byers not telling JMB, is very emotive. It suggests secrecy and deviousness. What a great pity that Melissa Byers was not questioned further as to how often he was late home when family arrangements were in place to go out to dinner. ALSO it has to be taken in context as these statements were made by the time they were both rather worried! Odd that she did not suggest they get a take out if it was not unknown for him to be 'hours' late home! Worth remembering too, that they had already had the anxiety of knowing the boy had been idiotic enough to lie on his skateboard and go down the road that way the same evening when a careless driver might well have run him over!

It's just like his asking the police the night of may 5th if it were possible they had drowned, why on earth would anyone be thinking along those lines?

Just maybe because one of the places the boys liked to play was the other side of the Ten Mile Bayou? Maybe because one of the access points was not a bridge but a matter of a balancing act crossing over on the pipe? Chris had already been disobedient that day. In a high anxiety state it is all too easy to be overly imaginative as to what the possibilites might be.

Yeah Terry Hobbs behavior was pretty odd in itself. But it wasn't his kid who got the worst beating, or that bled to death. Also we know that JMB was angry at his kid earlier in the day, and had even violently spanked him. Its easy to imagine him coming home later, and becoming even more enraged at discovering CB had blatantly disobeyed him, and had run off with his pals.

It is an accepted fact that CB was hyperactive - just think of his nick-name! It is not impossible to think that maybe CB might have been the most challenging of the three boys initially. Again, use of emotive language whilst also ignoring the different social mores of that time. Anyway, I am sure that had JMB been really, really angry, to the extent that he 'lost control', Chris would not have gone out again that late afternoon / early evening. You are entitled to believe what you want, including the supposed 'de-gloving' by a human. I am unaware of any human bite marks having been found on Christopher.

Documentaries don't use scripts or multiple retakes, they are supposed to be as real as possible. JMB pretending to be devastated only makes him look more like a guilty Sociopath, who we all know are not good at showing real emotion. If I, God forbid, was ever in a similar situation to JMB, and I was filmed at the grave of a deceased loved one, I might cry a lot, or I might show little emotion, but what I wouldn't do is pretend to be grieving. Look at the footage and decide for yourself, it starts at 5:21 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SK0f5zNtXq0

You do amuse me! I guess I must never have known what a documentary was before you came along!! But one thing was good, in that I was thinking about the footage shot at Chris' grave site and had forgotten this clip. PL2 ended up being a filler as the outcomes hoped for did not materialise. I also should have explained myself more simply. I was only meaning the liklihood of a second take were the lighting to have changed drastically (hell for editing) or excessive background noise or even a lens cap left on or wrong filter on lens! They cannot ask the 'cast' to do any post-synching! Or go back a second time. This is why on regular films they do multiple takes which makes it such a boring thing to be around unless you are involved in the whole process and find it fascinating.

The clip you told me to watch was def JMB as he was then - no pretense at all - and he is no actor! He was still under that dark cloud back then and also filled with hate and rage. He has changed since then, as most of us do over the years. Some, however, wish to keep him stuck in a time warp. I know I am glad he listened to the EDT, considered everything and then went public that he had changed his mind as to the guilt of the wmfree. This process took quite a time and was not an overnight conversion.

 

[Ausgirl]

That 'dark cloud' potentially being a factor is the entire point of this thread.

His present behaviour is kind of irrelevant.

 

[Miranda!]

That 'dark cloud' that I am referring to is the one cast by the murder of Chris and his friends. It was then exacerbated by the death of his wife. His whole life was up ended and they moved out of West Memphis after the trials were over. Then his life effectively went off the rails after the death of Melissa as far as I can make out. I assume you have read the book Greg Day wrote on his life? So all the biological fathers, step fathers and adoptive fathers - if effected by the deaths and depressed and angry must all be potentially 'viable' suspects by your reckoning? Fair enough.

Some people really do calm down and get wiser as they grow older. I would hate to be judged now on my behaviour during the terrible two's or the worst of my bad behaviour as a teen-ager! We definitely have more of life's experiences to draw on and also to learn from.

Worth remembering that grief manifests itself in many different ways for different people.

 

[Compassionate Reader]

I think at most he is a social misfit that is not incredibly intelligent but not a killer. There is nothing that points to him. Nothing. The evidence we have points to only one step father. And it ain't him.

To quote a character from Star Trek IV: The Voyage Home, (yeah, I'm a trekkie) "And that, as they say, is that." No evidence, even now, means he shouldn't be considered a viable suspect.

 

[Ausgirl]

I wouldn't say there "no" evidence. So "that" IMO is not at all "that".

 

[Dan Cooper]

I'm not saying Byers did it and I realize there is very little direct evidence to suggest he did, but never have I seen a more guilty-looking innocent man in my life. His language and actions are utterly bizarre and reek of a guilty conscience trying to find redemption. He is so over-the-top in everything he says and does about the murderers - although it is my understanding that he now accepts the innocence of the West Memphis III - and I just don't understand why he'd a) have his teeth removed and replaced with dentures, and b) lie about the circumstances for having done so on multiple occasions.

I understand that Byers is or was on various forms of medication and his wife died in mysterious circumstances, and I realize that Hobbs has evidence pointing towards him (the knife that his ex-wife found, the DNA found near the scene) but it's hard to think of a case with so many guilty-looking parties. Whether or not the three boys did it - and I doubt it - they made little concerted effort to convince the jury that they didn't, and Echols in particular acted very bizarre at the time and really just sleep-walked into a guilty verdict. If that were me, and I knew I was innocent, I can't imagine acting so comatose and indifferent when facing a possible death penalty.

But Hobbs? A very suspect character, IMO. And Byers? Good lord, if there had been a single shred of fibre or DNA linking him to the crime scene then he'd have been put in the chair. No doubt. Whatever that guy did, he is guilty of something.

Finally, it's certainly worth bearing in mind that most crimes involving the rape, mutilation or murder of a child are committed by a parent or family member, and in this case we have circumstantial evidence to suggest that may well have been the case here.

 

[Compassionate Reader]

JMB was a grief-stricken parent. IMO, that explains a lot of his "bizarre" behavior. I understand JMB "acting out" and I even understand TM and DM wanting to become invisible. However, I cannot understand TH telling his then-wife to "just get over" her son's death within two weeks of the murders. When that fact is considered with all the other circumstantial evidence against TH, I simply cannot consider any other suspect until TH is properly investigated. Is JMB a saint? No! If one but reads Untying the Knot, that is abundantly clear. However, IMO, he is not a murderer, but TH could well be one.

 

[Just Jake]

What was Byers affiliation with the KKK or factions similar? Is it possible he had the inside on some members who were also in law enforcement or in the judiciary system.

 

[Just Jake]

To add to this old discussion, this story has so many unsavory characters at play it's no wonder these six youths didn't stand a chance at life or a future. In a way there were such sacrifices made for such a scared community. I am amazed at how many abusers and convicted molesters were in that area that were part of the tapestry and this was supposedly a bible belt community. All that being said I am revisiting this after all these years and have a problem with a few things.

 

[Just Jake]

In the below testimony excerpt it seems to me that The Byers do not know where Steven (Hobbs Family) lives. How can that be?

6:30 to 7:30 pm Mark Byers statement: Drove around neighborhood looking for Chris with Ryan and Melissa, streets mentioned were Ingram, Goodwin, Wilson and McCauley. The only name Mark Byers gives in this initial hunt is the Garner family. ". . . we went up to the Garner's house and asked if they knew where Steven lived. [in JMBs statement it makes clear asking for Steven is in seeking Chris.]"

 

[DHT1339]

John Mark Byers has died

Sheriff’s office identifies man killed in Millington crash

 

[AGettler]

Thought this site would blow up with this news. What a character he was.

 

[DHT1339]

Thought this site would blow up with this news. What a character he was.

yeah i thought so too. but seems like there just isn't much interest in the case anymore, despite recent stuff like the bob ruff miniseries and ID documentary. this place is absolutely dead

 

[raweggsoup]

Rather than tackling this the 'usual' way I am going to turn it on its head.

IFF he were the killer then how did a Southern Country boy manage to put on such a brilliant Oscar winning performance at the flick of a switch? In order to have been the killer has to have been running to and fro being all things to all men, switching role of annoyed father, killer, angry father, killer, very worried father - there is no way he could have sustained that charade and not have tripped up.

Yes, he had been angry with his son. Any sensible adult would have been furious to see a kid lying on a skate board going down the road in traffic lane.

Later he was angry that Chris had done a vanishing act, despite fact that he knew they were going out for a meal that night. And they started to look for him.

As time went on the irritation changed to concern. He was the first to say they were looking for their son - to a cop in his patrol car. They then went home and called the police and filed MPR. If he had been the killer then I find it hard to believe that he would have increased the pressure on himself by alerting authorities sooner rather than later!

Added to this, he was also the only parent to contact Search And Rescue people to see if they could help.

Yes he was a very 'visible' person. Yes, there were anger issues that became even worse after the horrendous murder of his son. Yes there were issues deriving from both he and his wife's use of drugs and alcohol.

Yes he did know a lot of the local police force. However he was a drug informant for the police in Memphis Tenn. I believe - not West Memphis.

He was loud and volatile in his anger at the people he thought had killed his son. He hated the fact that the case gained even more notoriety and that the three who were convicted became the focal point of the case whilst the real victims were pushed into the background.

When I first became obsessed with the case I was reliably told that the only way the case would be resolved justly was for an alternative suspect to be exposed along with a lot of questions. Once past the conviction phase then the burden of proof is no longer down to the state but switches to the defense! Proving innocence with no alternative theory is a tough one. The best way forward is to high light others who maybe a better case could be made against. JMB being such a larger than life character was, for many, the obvious target. Sadly, many did not bother to examine thoroughly, and just stuck with pointing at JMB.

The camera likes him - but only playing himself! He is not Oscar winning material!!

There are still some who have him on their suspect list. Some even more certain after he took the trouble to go to the 'presentation of new evidence' meeting that the EDT held in 2007 before the legal team went public. He had some questions but was not, as far as I am led to believe, expecting to be persuaded by what he was told. But he was!

BTW if there is any hint of 'reasonable doubt' over guilt then it is not proven. Further more emotive language might be a game changer in court - but only if the evidence does not stack up and the prosecution have to resort to theatrics. In this case the whole satanic thing worked for them on gullible juries and small town dynamics.

Where the case is at now it can either not change and the wmfree are lumbered with the convictions for life and the families are left with no true justice. Not only is the burden of proof on what was the EDT, but so is the responsibility of finding who the killer most probably of is. THEN public pressure needs to be applied to the state Arkansas. As things stand they are able to state that the case is closed, they have their guilty pleas, the let them out as it was politically and financially expedient to do so. So which ever way anyone looks at it - the killer or killers walk free. Is that YOUR definition of 'Justice'?

Psychopaths are extremely manipulative. It's totally possible for him to flip a switch.