Viable suspect: Terry Hobbs #1

[Userid]

CR, enough with the semantics. Ryan Clark was nowhere near school that day. Nowhere.

 

[Compassionate Reader]

That is your opinion. Unless you were there, you cannot state it as fact. Period.

 

[Cher Lockhomes]

There are a number of theories that handle memory, dual process (Gist, and Verbatim memory), FFT (Fuzzy trace theory) and "False Memory. I, on the whole, don't agree with any theories that portion the brain / psyche, because any thought procedure produces so much synaptic, and chemical / hormonal activity across the whole of the brain.

Experiments involving the theory of "false memory" only go to prove human imperfection IMO

Userid, as I stated in the above quotes, and as I often state in my posts, it's all my opinion. Many theories are challenged by counter theories, many opinions are challenged by counter opinions, even many facts are challenged by "new" theories. I always try to substantiate my opinion, I share my knowledge, experience and theories, I am very thankful that others do this too, it's up to you what you do with it.:thinking:

 

[Userid]

Double post, see directly below.

 

[Userid]

That is your opinion. Unless you were there, you cannot state it as fact. Period.

No CR, it isn't an opinion. It is a bona-fide FACT. I've quoted the post by RedWolfVision from the other board below. I repeat: this isn't my work, but that of a fantastic poster called RedWolfVision. See below (pretty sure you've already seen this; maybe you just forgot or you're simply choosing to not acknowledge it):

13. The next day, I saw Ryan at school and he was very upset. Ryan told me that the boys had never come home and that the police had found the bodies of the Stevie, Michael and Christopher. Ryan was so upset. When he told me that the boys had been killed, I said something like, "What, I just saw your brother last night playing in my backyard!" Ryan was crying and said to me, "Why didn't you tell my brother to come home?" That really upset me and I told Ryan, "I did tell him to come home!" They let out school and everyone went home soon after that.

West Memphis Christian School was located at 1600 Avondale Circle in West Memphis.
School let out at 3:00 pm and it would take approximately 35 minutes to walk from the school to 1400 East Barton where Ryan lived.
According to the Crime Scene notes the first body was removed from the ditch at 2:45 pm; the second body was removed at 2:56 pm and the third body was removed at 2:59 pm.

http://callahan.8k.com/wm3/csn.html


Had Ryan even attended school on May 6th ( Brit Smith stated he stayed home from school on May 6th to help Ryan search for Christopher) he could not have known the bodies had been found one minute before school let out.

Source: RedWolfVision -- website post: http://westmemphisthreediscussion.yuku.com/reply/113190/#reply-113190

This is an undeniable fact. She did not see Ryan Clark at school the next day. She couldn't have.

 

[Userid]

Userid, as I stated in the above quotes, and as I often state in my posts, it's all my opinion. Many theories are challenged by counter theories, many opinions are challenged by counter opinions, even many facts are challenged by "new" theories. I always try to substantiate my opinion, I share my knowledge, experience and theories, I am very thankful that others do this too, it's up to you what you do with it.:thinking:

Fair enough, but it just seems like you're talking out of both sides of your mouth when you say "no one is saying false memories don't exist," but then go on to pretty much discredit every study done in the last 10 years pertaining to false memories in your next two posts. Just don't get where you're coming from exactly, but no biggie.

 

[Compassionate Reader]

Userid,

Again, RC did not attend school on May 6th. No one is saying he did. However, although I respect redwolfvision's case knowledge, she can make omissions or not totally "think through" things at times. First, according to MA's testimony at the Misskelley trial, the first body was discovered shortly after 1 pm, when he arrived on the scene. What MA described simply could not have taken over an hour and a half. Second, it is an assumption that RC walked to school after the second and third bodies were found or that his mode of transportation was walking. He could have left after the first body was found, assuming the worst. Also, he could have ridden a bike or a skateboard (more likely a bike) or hitched a ride in order to arrive at the school before it was released. The statement by JCB indicates that school was released right after she spoke with RC. If the school's clock and the watches the LE officials used to establish the times the bodies were discovered weren't in synchronization, it wouldn't take much time at all (probably less than five minutes) by bike and even less time if he hitched a ride, to arrive at the school. So, your statement that RC was no where near the school on May 6th is your (and redwolfvision's) opinion and not a fact. Period.

 

[Userid]

Userid,

Again, RC did not attend school on May 6th. No one is saying he did. .

BBM

Yes, there is. JCB is saying he did, and she's completely wrong.

And CR, I would hope this is an honest mistake on your part, but the first body was not discovered at 1 pm. Mike Allen states that he was on the scene at 1 pm; not that the first body was discovered at that time. Please don't spread misinformation simply to fit your argument.

I (and Wolf) have much more facts at are disposal than you; and we also have pure logic and common sense. It makes literally zero sense that a family member would drive RC to school, immediately after hearing their son had died; let alone RC going to school at all, in the first fricking place. Pretty sure it's logical to assume that home work was the last thing on anybody's mind that day. The fact is that the last body was discovered at 3 pm, and school let out at 3 pm. That's called a fact, not an opinion. And if you think the public and/or the families (particularly the Byers', who body was recovered LAST), were immediately notified by police, you'd be mistaken to speculate that also.

And you can spare me the "RC was running errands to take his mind off of things" argument -- again, it doesn't jive because the times still don't add up.

 

[Compassionate Reader]

First, I didn't say that the first body was discovered at 1 pm. I said it was discovered "shortly after" 1 pm. I've often heard 1:30 pm as the time the first body was discovered. Second, you are entitled to your opinion concerning JCB's statement, but so am I. I never said that RC was "running errands." I believe he went by the school sometime around 3 pm either to get his assignments or to seek solace from friends after learning that his half-brother was dead. Again, I'm entitled to my opinion, but no one can state as a fact that RC didn't meet JCB at the school sometime around 3 pm on May 6th. Do we even know that RC and JCB attended the same school? I know (from the JCB statement) that they walked home together daily, but that doesn't mean that they both attended the private school that let out at 3 pm. JCB could have attended the public high school. Do we know when it let out in 1993? Do we know where it is - how close to the private school?

 

[Userid]

We can state it as fact because his brother's body wasn't discovered until 2:59 pm (which is a FACT). School dismissed at 3 pm (FACT 2). Seriously, this isn't rocket science. MM's body was the one found first. Simply because WMPD found MM's body first, wouldn't indicate beyond a reasonable doubt that the other two were deceased, and even if it did, it wouldn't have been leaked out to the public immediately.

And also, to even suggest they didn't go to the same school makes little sense and is akin to grasping for straws. The only other public high school was Marion, which was too far for walking distance. All the other schools in the immediate vicinity at the time were elementary schools. I can't believe we're going down this road now to suggest they didn't go to the same school, seriously.

 

[Compassionate Reader]

I know you don't like my personal recollections, but here's another one.

In my experience with at least four different school systems in two different states, schools, especially high schools are prone to set their clocks about five minutes slow, meaning when the three o'clock bell rings, it's really at least 3:05, sometimes later. There is no reason to assume that RC walked from the discovery area to the school. He could have had his bike or could have hitched a ride. The distance between the discovery ditch and the school could easily be covered in a couple of minutes in a car and five or less minutes on a bike. Additionally, there is no reason to assume that the timepiece the wmpd used to record the times at which each body was discovered was in perfect synchronization with the clock at the school. So, JCB's statement is not inconsistent with a plausible timeline, even if RC didn't leave the discovery area until CB's body was discovered. Some people just choose not to accept that. Of course, that's their right. However, I still see the JCB statement as one of the more reliable and credible in this case.

 

[Userid]

CR...you're really reaching here...it's obvious you simply refuse to acknowledge the recorded facts here, so there's really no point in going any further. I'll simply say this:

CB's body was discovered at 2:59 pm.

School let out at 3 pm.

The end.

 

[Lethalmatthew]

CR...you're really reaching here...it's obvious you simply refuse to acknowledge the recorded facts here, so there's really no point in going any further. I'll simply say this:

CB's body was discovered at 2:59 pm.

School let out at 3 pm.

The end.

I agree with Userid on this one. It's obvious that RC could not have gone to his school after the bodies were discovered, but before school let out. I also don't think that the WMPD would have told the parents of SB and CB that their children had died before their bodies had been discovered. That wouldn't make any sense.

 

[Compassionate Reader]

No, it is not obvious. We don't know, as I've said repeatedly (but no one has addressed), if the timepiece used to establish the time at which the bodies were found was in perfect synchronization with the school's clock. We don't know what method of transportation RC used when he went to the school. I agree that he couldn't walk from the discovery ditch to the school in one minute, or even in six (if the clocks at the school were slow). However, I believe that he could have ridden there on his bicycle or hitched a ride and arrived at the school within five minutes. So, again, it is not obvious to me that RC didn't go to the school on May 6th - and I don't really care how many others "chime in" saying otherwise. My explanations are logical, and no amount of "naysaying" can change that fact.

 

[Cher Lockhomes]

I think the Ballard statement is one of the most heavily discussed subjects on this case. It's fifty / fifty. As I said before, the times / facts are static, reality is dynamic. I'm going to take this discussion in a complete different direction, and will probably get done for it. I don't mind, as long as a bit of dust flies around.

I want to bring up the 2007 Police interview again. The deeper I look into this piece of dilettantish "investigation" the more it appears to me that TH is manipulating the world. He is laying tracks down all over the place, he knows who had information about him, he knows all the theories, he's set up his story. I think he knows that the Ballard's saw him on that day, and that they were probably the only ones who saw him with the boys (except DJ's "dream" maybe). This is the part of the interview where he relates to the Ballard's:

First JB::

Later in the evening, approximately between 5:30 and 6:30 PM, I saw Stevie Branch, Michael Moore and Christopher Byers playing in my backyard. My backyard is very large. There were not any privacy fences behind the two houses between my house and the Hobbs' house, or behind my house. So Stevie, Michael and Christopher had come down and were playing in my backyard.

Then TH:

Terry Hobbs: Probably 30 minutes and I went Uhhh, maybe an hour I don't know about the time exactly but after we went back to see if we could find them in the neighbourhood, me and Amanda. I took Amanda to, well we both went home and I said, come on, we'll go walk around the neighbourhood and see if we can hear em behind them fences in somebody's yard, because I didn't know where George lived, which is one of his little friends. And, but we was gonna see if we could hear em playing behind the fences, the privacy fences. So we did that for awhile, and we didn't see em. We went back to our house

Just like the "Black bum", the "Manholes" the meeting with Dana M / JMB / Meek, TH throws everything in the pot, mixes it up a bit and tips out a new story.

 

[Userid]

No, it is not obvious. We don't know, as I've said repeatedly (but no one has addressed), if the timepiece used to establish the time at which the bodies were found was in perfect synchronization with the school's clock. We don't know what method of transportation RC used when he went to the school. I agree that he couldn't walk from the discovery ditch to the school in one minute, or even in six (if the clocks at the school were slow). However, I believe that he could have ridden there on his bicycle or hitched a ride and arrived at the school within five minutes. So, again, it is not obvious to me that RC didn't go to the school on May 6th - and I don't really care how many others "chime in" saying otherwise. My explanations are logical, and no amount of "naysaying" can change that fact.

Again, I know it's pointless because you've chosen to rely on utter speculation (that the clock was slow) rather than fact, but let me just ask this one question: didn't JCB allude to the fact school had "let out early" that day? I want to say she alluded to this fact on West of Memphis, using that exact word: "early."

 

[Userid]

And by the way -- if that clock was slow, the difference would have been utterly negligible (i.e. five minutes).

If you think parents (who pick up their children from school) and/or students in particular (or even teachers, for that matter) would have sat an extra half-hour longer than they would have needed to and NOT brought it up to school officials/teacher(s) and/or never noticed, you're crazy.

 

[Compassionate Reader]

If the school clocks were five minutes slow (or the wmpd timepiece was five minutes fast), it would have been plenty of time, IMO, for RC to have ridden by bike or especially to have hitched a ride from the discovery site to the school. Parents who pick up children from school wait a lot longer than five minutes - and very few parents pick up high school students - unless they're picking them up early for an appointment or some such. Once kids are old enough to drive, even if they don't have a car, they tend to become positively allergic to their parents' company in public - especially in a car. It would be considered gauche! BTW, here's a quote from the JCB statement: "They let out school and everyone went home soon after that." She didn't say "early" at all, just that school was out "soon after" she spoke with RC.

CL,

TH seems to change his "story" with every new piece of information. It simply defies belief how he was never considered to be a suspect by LE. I just wish the State of Arkansas would grow a pair and reopen the investigation.

 

[Userid]

Again, and as I specified in my previous post, doesn't she say "early" in the West of Memphis doc? I know it's not in the statement.

I find your reasoning anecdotal again as far as no parent picking up children who are in junior high because said children are embarrassed of them. First, this isn't high school. Second, this is junior high, where none of the kids at this school have the ability to drive yet. If you're insinuating that zero children at this particular school had never been dropped off and/or picked up before, it wouldn't surprise me considering some of your other far-reaching arguments, but I'd still find it to be misguided nonetheless.

I also find your logic faulty in assuming that Ryan Clark could have gotten there and that 5 minutes would have been sufficient in both arriving at the school/would have made any difference at all. You don't know how he got to school, and he wouldn't have known the bodies were found immediately at 3 pm, so again, the point and the 5 minutes are completely and utterly moot. The time difference (5 minutes) would have been utterly negligible. It's 5 fricking minutes. Did one of the cops sprint to a telephone immediately, at 2:59:30, and call the Byers? Did whoever answered the phone at the Byers immediately drop the phone and tell Ryan at 3:00:00 (making the call last 30 seconds)? The call alone would have taken 5 minutes, and that's being beyond generous. JMB and/or MB would have had to muster up the courage to tell Ryan and also console him, which would have taken God knows how long (an hour, I'd say). In your scenario, this all would have happened within a millisecond. Even in a car, it would have taken another 5 minutes to get to the school. A bike would have taken even longer.

Wow, I can't believe we're even arguing this. I'm sorry, but I've really never heard a worse argument while discussing this case; and that's saying something.

Using simple logic would be beneficial for all here.

 

[Graznik]

I think the Ballard statement is one of the most heavily discussed subjects on this case. It's fifty / fifty. As I said before, the times / facts are static, reality is dynamic. I'm going to take this discussion in a complete different direction, and will probably get done for it. I don't mind, as long as a bit of dust flies around.

I want to bring up the 2007 Police interview again. The deeper I look into this piece of dilettantish "investigation" the more it appears to me that TH is manipulating the world. He is laying tracks down all over the place, he knows who had information about him, he knows all the theories, he's set up his story. I think he knows that the Ballard's saw him on that day, and that they were probably the only ones who saw him with the boys (except DJ's "dream" maybe). This is the part of the interview where he relates to the Ballard's:

First JB::



Then TH:



Just like the "Black bum", the "Manholes" the meeting with Dana M / JMB / Meek, TH throws everything in the pot, mixes it up a bit and tips out a new story.

Naah, I'm sure you won't get done for actually bringing the thread back ON topic.

It's interesting that you should mention this, I've thought the same thing to myself many times. It's like we've heard a lot of stories from TH, but not the one about what he actually did that night. He just tosses little bits in everywhere, of what others have said, and it just adds to the notion that he's not telling his own story.