Victim: Amber Lynn Costello

Discussion in 'Long Island Serial Killer' started by Salem, Apr 29, 2011.

  1. SwitchnSinden

    SwitchnSinden Member

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    I didn’t mean any disrespect.

    It’s just, typically, when you see homicides that include things such as “phone left in the house and ID and wallet left behind” (as well as other personal items one needs to carry) as a victim who goes to walk to exercise and is assaulted and killed while doing that...and also if homicides happen in the residence and the homicide is being concealed.

    I am not saying Schaller was a liar, I am just pointing out that I find it odd someone could have convinced her to drop her guard. I’m not saying it’s impossible--Just that it’s unusual.
     
    Last edited: May 7, 2020
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  2. eagleyeseymour

    eagleyeseymour Well-Known Member

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    It is unusual however, we are talking about people living an extremely unconventional life. Schaller was allowing complete strangers to enter his home for the purpose of engaging in commercial sex. "Usual" as we know it is completely out the window.

    The reason sex workers, especially those advertising on Backpage are referred to as the most vulnerable is because they are. She was groomed and manipulated into becoming a sex worker to begin with. She was also addicted to drugs. When someone addicted to hard drugs like opiates hears "$1500" , anything can happen next. That's where that expression "he'd rob his own mother" comes from. These drugs are absolutely evil and cloud judgement to a degree that most of us cannot fathom.

    The next fix is all that matters and as mentioned in Lost Girls, a quick $1500 would've enabled her to probably hole up inside for a week and get completely inebriated.
     
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  3. SwitchnSinden

    SwitchnSinden Member

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    I didn’t mean any disrespect. It’s just you typically see homicides that include things such as “phone left in the house and ID and wallet left behind” as well as other personal items one needs to carry as a victim who goes to walk to exercise and is assaulted doing that and if homicides happen in the home and the homicide is being concealed. I am not saying Schaller was a liar I am just pointing out that I find it odd someone could have convinced her to drop her guard. I’m not saying it’s impossible. Just that it’s unusual.
    “Unusual” and “drug addiction” doesn’t mean “stupid enough to leave for a call of that dollar amount and not suspect that it may be a set up or trap” especially as she has experienced many of them before prior to her death.

    She would be wary of it, especially if she was knowledgeable about the threats made against her online. If she thought it was legit, she would most definitely try to dress up more to try to get this guy’s future business. Schaller said “gussied up”, but she left in what seemed like workout clothes?

    A possibility to stay overnight, was also something she mentioned, yet, brought no overnight items? I know you think addicts are desperate and thus must engage in “stupid/risky behavior”, but when a cell phone saved her life in a trap where someone was beaten with a baseball bat and a window was broken by her room mate and boyfriend—I doubt she would not suspect that this was too easy and a potential trap and prepare for it.

    I’m sorry, you’re being very disrespectful and degrading to this victim to assume drug addicts who solicit for sex are not constantly worrying about stings, arrests and violent attacks. Especially when they have happened before and threats have been made and a cell phone will save your life.

    This logic is minimizing what every homicide detective is going to think of when hearing “her ID and phone was left behind” for an overnight trip with a slick talking John. There are parts of his story that seem as if they are minimizing their involvement. I transcribed this interview and have reviewed it over 10 times. I’ve listened to this podcast 20 times. I am factoring in Schaller seeming deceptive due to trauma and being as sensitive to his statements as I possibly can. However this question needs to be asked and discussed without bias.

    Sex worker and drug addict does not mean complete idiot. I’m at the point where I am going to stop apologizing for being disrespectful because clearly you are the one being disrespectful.

    The view of the threats and previous attacks leading up to her death are not factors of her state of mind after being attacked multiple times and arrested and entrapped into stings? Sure she is an addict, but according to Schaller, she’s also been the victim of a violent assault in which having her cell phone saved her life.

    Should we discard an obvious assumption that any detective would make and try to rule out in a preliminary interview and at the beginning of an investigation because sexworker/drug addict equals stupid by leaving her ID, phone and wallet left behind?

    In cases where they’re “normal people” (and not people you, personally, find incompetent for their profession and addiction) these items left behind typically indicate the homicide happened at the residence and/or they expected to return shortly.

    Even when I trust someone as a normal person, I don’t leave those things behind. I’ve seen some pretty naive other “normal people” some may consider “stupid” for doing this, I am not saying it’s impossible.

    I am merely trying to open a discussion on something in a very normal way and not dehumanize the girl and bias my approach based upon her line of work and prior addictions which is the only thing people have been complaining about the investigators doing.

    They are biased towards women of this nature. I am doing exactly what people think the police needed to do but did not do.

    I’m not interested in any responses where they try to minimize things by saying, “Oh well, I guess she was just a crazy addict hooker who did something incredibly stupid”. I think this angles been explored enough, if the angle was viable I think this case would be resolved already.

    Next, I noticed minimization and deception in certain parts of the statement by Schaller on this and some other problematic reactions to why no one reported her missing, which is why I am asking this question. So please, I respect your right to think she’s a “crazy stupid drug hooker”...but know that I don’t really want to hear it.

    Biased thinking doesn’t really solve the case. If it did we’d have resolved it by now. Thanks.

    You know who is a sex worker who doesn’t have access to their ID? Trafficking victims under the control of a trafficker. Who don’t let them go anywhere alone. They also don’t have control over their cell phone. These are also facts. Nobody mentions that. You see the same minimization of their involvement in trafficking women in pimps being interviewed by law enforcement about their involvement.

    I can show you multiple interviews of how pimps talk about their involvement and valiant protectiveness over their sex workers after being convicted of heinous crimes against women they trafficked. It’s hard for me to buy the “captain save a ho” angle. He minimizes his involvement, meaning we aren’t getting the whole story and this can be obstructive. I need that real story.

     
    Last edited: May 8, 2020
  4. SwitchnSinden

    SwitchnSinden Member

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    Another interview:



    Schaller minimizes his involvement because he flew her up from Florida and can be charged with the Mann act and I think this should be used as leverage to get the truth.

    Remember the home for wayward girls phone call? What if this was a guy luring her away to a shelter to help her escape? They don’t bring cellphones to shelters because they can’t be tracked. Someone could have said that to lure her away to “save her”. Same mentality applies it gets the victim to leave without the phone, they can replace her ID.

    If she didn’t have her phone she can’t call the drug dealer to score after she made the money. If she didn’t have her wallet how would she get high on an overnight call? If she’s an addict and she loves heroin, she didn’t carry her kit to cook the heroin? Syringes? Call the dealer? How would she get home? He was going to bring her back or was she going to take a cab? I mean....

    I just don’t buy it.

    Next, she was upset about Bear leaving her for rehab. If she thought rehab could get him back, I could see her falling for a rehab scam. Like “a home for wayward girls”.

    You know who had access to multiple vacant real estate homes to use as flap houses? Brewer. I don’t think Hackett owns the property for a home for wayward girls based on his records. He owns a nice amount of boats. Brewer has tons of real estate to use as flap houses.



    He’d need to exploit Medicaid. With an actual doctor attending to these patients.
     
    Last edited: May 8, 2020
  5. eagleyeseymour

    eagleyeseymour Well-Known Member

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    As I mentioned, opiate addiction and withdrawal cloud judgement. I never once called Amber stupid, you are making insinuations and riding through this thread on a high horse now. I have personally witnessed close family members and loved ones under the same roof as I do things completely out of character when fiending for a fix.

    I know you're coming from a good place and as I said in my first reply to you, appreciate you looking at this from a different angle. That being said, it is clear you are severely underestimating how drugs could impact her or anyones decision making, that is all I'm saying. Not sure if you've read Lost Girls, I highly suggest you do if you haven't already, Schaller is no saint and certainly never pretended to be one, he was fairly transparent, enough for Kolker to paint a vivid picture of what that house in Babylon was like.

    I urge you to look more into opiate addiction and the kind of people it effects, it doesn't discriminate. So please refrain from launching personal attacks because you don't agree with me. I understand that the lure of $1500 to someone consuming the quantity of opiates she was can cause people to make decisions they wouldn't normally make, which include accepting a degree of danger. That's not even considering that the big pay day was likely contingent upon her leaving her phone home.

    I'm not going to watch these Pimp videos, It's obvious while the optics don't look good for Schaller, he was much more of an enabler/protector than a traditional pimp. Their relationship was co-dependent since Amber brought in the income , if you look into why he was housing her to begin with it may change your mind, though that is not my goal. You are entitled to your own opinion and if you think there was some grand conspiracy with Schaller involved, that's ok and I can accept that.
     
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  6. eagleyeseymour

    eagleyeseymour Well-Known Member

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    1)You don't need a phone to score heroin, there are what are called "dope spots" and known places to pick up, addicts are well are aware of where they are and it's not atypical for Johns to provide "party favors" or help facilitate the acquisition of "party favors" if it will get them what they want.

    2) Neither you or I know what Amber left with that night as far as gear or dope, have you seen a bundle of heroin? It's tiny.

    3)As far as returning home, she could've gotten back home in either way you described, taking a cab or getting dropped back off by a John is not farfetched at all.


    I don't know what more truth there is to get out Schaller, he incriminated himself plenty by telling Kolker about strong arm robberies and what was going on at the home in Babylon that the neighborhood referred to as a "crackhouse". BTW there was ZERO indication Amber was aware of the threats made against her online at the time.
     
  7. SwitchnSinden

    SwitchnSinden Member

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    I’ve read Lost Girls, more than once, and will IM Kolker right now. Don’t watch the pimp videos, fine. I’d hate to show you how pimps really conduct themselves so you can view the game logically. If you have any desire to help these victims you need to understand how they’re trapped coerced and controlled and the general disposition of a pimp in an interview and how they minimize their behavior. What are you here for? You just lurk around commenting on something you know nothing about? Maybe you should reread Kolker’s book? IDK. It helps me to understand the things I am talking about before I do something like talk. :)

    I genuinely hope you aren’t responsible for interviewing some of these potential accessories to murder.

    All pimps come off like enablers and protectors. If you watched the interview you’d see actual pimps talking about their valiant protectiveness. So protective...but he can’t file a missing persons report. So protective. He brought her up there to save her....but it’s just she was on the way out anyway. You know, she was bound to die one way or another. I think she wanted to die. Didn’t care about herself, but he did. So much. Who says things like this about someone they cared so much about?

    Unless that medical examiner said to him she was grabbed from behind and choked to death, what a strange thing to assume would happen when homicidal asphyxiation during a sex act by choking doesn’t typically occur this way. You have many ways they can be homicidally asphyxiated. Heroin overdoses also cause respiratory depression/arrest and victims can asphyxiate, when it’s unintentional or done by being injected by another person then it becomes homicidal. Hot shots are a great example. Next, ligature strangulation, smothering, carbon monoxide poisoning, manual strangulation (hands around the throat), choke holds from behind like Schaller assumes? Why that method? All of these things can be homicidal asphyxiation.

    What a strange thing to assume if what he is saying is true. Serial killers like to see the life draining out of their victims eyes as they’re choking them. He describes it like a DV or like a police brutality incident.

    His story makes no sense, he knows more. If he doesn’t want to talk, a Mann act indictment can be brought with everything he’s said on tape so far.
    Same for Kim. I don’t necessarily want that, especially if they’re uninvolved. What I want is the whole truth and I’m not really worried about Dave or Kim’s feelings as much as I am worried about Amber and finding who hurt her. If he’s leaving things out nobody is going to catch the killer.

    They didn't really care about Amber. If she left and went to a shelter and changed identities, I wouldn't blame her. They sucked her into this. They need to do the right thing.

    #PS all pimps are codependent. Meaning he depended on her for income. That means pimp. Means he doesn’t work but sends her out to slaughter and mooches off her exploitation? Pretends that’s his house? Like he works? That means pimp. Every last one of them thinks they’re protecting them instead of exploiting them.

    First thing he did after IDing Amber at the morgue was go to rehab. Not plan a funeral, memorial, not mourn. Not contact family. Not find her sister who was also missing, not worrying for her safety. He went to rehab? Nothing like disappearing for a while as police show up to ask about your dead roommate. That's behavior guilty people display. So at any point, I would like the entire truth.

    I don't care about them getting in trouble, I would like them to quit being so damn selfish because they don’t want to be implicated. If they wanted to, there is enough there to charge Mann act if they wanted to. Believe me, they will if they have to. I’m hoping nobody goes there because now that the feds are involved, this is interstate. If they have to use that angle to get the truth, they will.
     
    Last edited: May 8, 2020
  8. eagleyeseymour

    eagleyeseymour Well-Known Member

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    I'm well aware of how pimps conduct themselves. I don't know why you think watching YouTube videos makes you an expert on anything. I've known girls, good friends of mine who've been pimped. I am speaking from first hand experience of knowing vulnerable young women and predators who've pimped too. My knowledge of this seedy underworld is from real life experience in the field, not from the comfort of my home watching videos of a caricature like Bishop Don Juan.

    You're speaking from a place of privilege and naivety. But go ahead, crack the case. In the last two days I've heard from another member that John Ray is a red herring for Spota and know from you that Schaller could be an accessory or possibly be in cahoots with Brewer who would have access to a flap house.

    Good day to you.
     
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  9. SwitchnSinden

    SwitchnSinden Member

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    Good day to you. Nobody with arrest power and can perform the duty of public safety is going to have first hand drug and prostitution experience. Burke had that experience and was pretty useless in this case. Remember that.

    You want ACTUAL law enforcement help? Well. Newsflash, they don't watch those videos either. I didn't post them for people who live it. I posted it for investigators and other people so they can better relate, I'm sorry that I don't have the same experience. In order to help you and your friends, I can't have experience in this. I think keeping you safe on tax dollars as a public servant would keep you alive better than Schaller can. Part of what I do is educate the police about things so they could do their jobs properly. It would be simply incredible if that could happen.

    I don't necessarily care about having that experience, being someone who can catch a killer is kind of my aim in life. Doesn't seem like your people are good at catching the guy either, to be fair.

    I'm not sure what good your experience does in removing threats from your life’s landscape so you don't die.

    I never said Ray was a red herring for *someone*, but it doesn't mean I haven't considered it. :)
     
    Last edited: May 8, 2020
  10. r00t

    r00t Member

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    @SwitchnSinden and @eagleyeseymour

    I'm trying to follow what both of you are saying. I do agree having different perspectives is helpful. Lets see if we can also look at the evidence and facts so far objectively again and brainstorm some more. I appreciate the personal input, the ability to keep an open mind and the theories put forth by you two and others. Fresh set of eyes on this case couldn't hurt. I'm still absorbing what has been mentioned so a reply won't be forthcoming anytime soon.
     
  11. hawkshaw

    hawkshaw Well-Known Member

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    I don't think a 1,000 fresh eyes will solve this case. Unless one is part of this case from the beginning one could never hope to solve it. It won't be solved because (IMO) the powers that be don't want it solved because it probably would make a lot of embarrassing moments to many of them.
     
  12. SwitchnSinden

    SwitchnSinden Member

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    Too bad
     
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  13. eagleyeseymour

    eagleyeseymour Well-Known Member

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    @hawkshaw - What is your opinion on Geraldine Hart?

    With Spota and Burke exposed and no longer in power, could this woman coming from the FBI decide to look into this deeper? I don't think she would be too interested in protecting the old boys club, nor does she strike me as an individual that would identify with them. I haven't looked into her enough myself but I found this quote from the Long Island Press to be interesting, original article here

    "Neither Suffolk police nor the county attorney’s office immediately responded to a request for comment on whether they plan to appeal or comply with the order. But during a January news conference when police released previously undisclosed evidence in the Gilgo Beach case, Suffolk Police Commissioner Geraldine Hart said the department will be “guided by the verdict” in the Gilbert lawsuit."
    So, her releasing evidence will be "guided" by the verdict on the 911 tapes. Well, we got the verdict, this statement is open to interpretation. One would think that she is saying that if the judge rules the tapes be released, that they would release additional information. It also connects Gilbert with the GB4 and while we all know there is a connection of some kind, Spota seemed to really want to tell a different story.

    I know you said that someone would have to have been involved from the get-go, is it possible there are honest cops on the force who've been on the case since day one that Hart could consult and get some momentum in the right direction?

    Lots of questions , I know.
     
  14. hawkshaw

    hawkshaw Well-Known Member

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    PC Hart seems to be a very nice lady with an apparent good resume for her to have this job. Assuming I have my facts and timelines right, consider the following:

    She was the head of the Melville FBI office during the time of these upheavals. This was all going on why she was on Long Island. I can tell you when the FBI came to my house to interview me about my complaints about corruption in Suffolk, they didn't come from Melville. They came from the corruption unit at 26 Federal Plaza, Manhattan. I don't know why because I brought my complaint to Melville some years ago.

    She is clean cut and a lovely lady. DA Sini is just like what she seems like in the male version.

    It does seem like she said the PD would comply if the court ordered the release the tapes. It now seems they may not.

    A supreme court ordered it to be released almost 2 years ago. The case went to appeals. The order was just issued. Don't you think that after two years since the original order and the appeal the SCPD/Hart should have known what to do?

    Truth is both Hart and Sini take their orders from the political machine that got them their jobs.
     
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  15. hawkshaw

    hawkshaw Well-Known Member

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    And where is the chief law enforcement officer in all this : DA Sini. Don't you think he should lend his considerable prestige to this matter. They say it could hinder a criminal investigation if they release the tape. They also say SG wasn't murdered.......what kind of investigation are they talking about? So where is SINI in all this? Don't you think he should be involved? I think so.
     
  16. eagleyeseymour

    eagleyeseymour Well-Known Member

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    Absolutely. Appreciate your detailed response here and apologize if my inquiry was confusing. I misinterpreted the article and to your point, Harts statement is open ended on whether or not Suffolk would file an appeal. I don't mean to confuse anyone by suggesting that additional evidence would be released based on the Judges ruling in the Gilbert 911 call case. This is just wishful thinking on my part as I jumped the gun and figured if they are conducting a criminal investigation and the cat was out of the bag per se (we get to hear the tape) that perhaps they would reveal additional information to the public.

    She did allude to "updates" on the Gilgonews.com site, however, the site is rudimentary to say the least and it seems like it was slapped together in a few hours time. I'm also curious as to what "investigation" they are talking about. Sounds like the initial ruling of Shannan's cause of death is under scrutiny especially after Michael Baden's autopsy. Could the initial ME's findings have been the result of him being influenced by someone in the old boys club?
     
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  17. SwitchnSinden

    SwitchnSinden Member

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    • I could not be more enthralled that Hart has the job. I’m shocked and pleasantly surprised. As a female, I love seeing other females kick butt and take names. I was so happy to see that press conference.

      @eagleyeseymour please excuse my passion as it often can come off rude but I've read everything I can get my hands on with this case multiple times. I'm running out of material and angles to explore. I'm getting frustrated because of it. I have a huge note section full of every federal EDNY indictment on trafficking and drug busts and racketeering to paint a landscape of what was going on Crimewise in EDNY. I did the same for Foxwoods as I think Maureen had connections there, so did Markoff. I have separate transcripts of Schaller's statements and my follow up questions.
    I really spend all my downtime replaying podcasts and audiobooks on it. I go to sleep to it. I literally live and breathe it outside of work. The more I focus on it the more I get different angles, I find something or remember something. I even am trying to find out demographics and what the civil rights division was working on. Anything to get a general impression of the political and legal landscape.
    In the Don Juan video what I wanted you to notice as he is minimizing his behavior was the girl to our right is his human lie detector. The girl to our left is terrified of him. That's what I find to be the most interesting thing about the video. Their reactions are far more honest than his. It puts the minimization into an accurate light. I'm worried about those girls.

    The one above, is white. I've watched them of every race and shape and size in interviews and study their behavior...besides homicide, slavery just completely is equally as infuriating. People just take them at face value when if you analyze enough pimps, they have a pattern. If I worked for the FBI I would want to be Alfred Tribble. He's the bees knees. More FBI agents should be like him. He's my favorite. I respect what he does so much.

    Likewise with Hart. I was so stoked to see that press conference. I didn't expect it. I was happy. Extremely so.
     
    Last edited: May 8, 2020
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  18. SwitchnSinden

    SwitchnSinden Member

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    Don't get me started on her. I have nothing but faith she's going to finally get things done. I was enthralled to see her on that press conference from the FBI.
     
  19. eagleyeseymour

    eagleyeseymour Well-Known Member

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    Water under the bridge Switchn. I understand where you are coming from, all of us are passionate about this case if we wound up here and most have a vested interest in the cause. As I mentioned, my interest stems from my intimate experience in the town of Babylon as a teenager and young adult who got mixed up with the wrong crowd and realizing that people I knew , dating back to childhood could have very well became victims.

    This community should be about collaboration not condemnation. We are all very frustrated with this case to say the least. In regards to the LISK podcast, what I find very interesting is the first 5 minutes of the E7: Chief of Deception episode. Dave Schaller being shown the photo lineup of persons of interest and selecting the same man that Sara Karnes reacted to when hearing the voice recordings certainly got my attention. Coincidence? Perhaps. We don't know how many photos/audio files either Dave or Sara saw/heard. However, both reacted with a degree of certainty. Unfortunately they bleep out the response when Dave asked "Do You Know What This Guy Does for a Living?" The only thing I heard was the word "Service". Which leads me to my next inquiry, how many businesses or professions use the word "Service" in the main title? For some reason the first thing that came to mind was Tree Removal Service, don't ask me why. We can only speculate as to what the mans profession or business is, I'd like to know.
     
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  20. SwitchnSinden

    SwitchnSinden Member

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    Interesting. Public Service is how I heard it. I thought this episode was about Burke. Chief of Deception/Chief of Police...I couldn't tell who was saying what in that part.

    I was very disturbed with what Burke said about the Snuff films to another police officer. I want to hear from some female officers in that department who he had an affair with and might have faced retaliation. Their testimony piled on these victims would be crucial.
     
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