GUILTY WA- 3 N. Seattle brothers, 78,79 & 82, arrested child sex-abuse investigation

[LotsaLatte]

I've heard of two. Edwin's twin who went to foster care and an older sister who was also abused. I can't remember which link it's in. There could be more, but I don't remember hearing about them.

I think if there is another sister besides Edwin's twin, she might be younger? Not sure but in the 1940 census, Edwin's twin is the only daughter listed. Unless they missed the other sister on the census.

 

[Lilibet]

I think if there is another sister besides Edwin's twin, she might be younger? Not sure but in the 1940 census, Edwin's twin is the only daughter listed. Unless they missed the other sister on the census.

You're probably right. I read it as an older sister, but it may have been referring to Edwin's twin as an older sister. The wording was confusing and I remember reading it over a couple of times to make sense of it. I wish I could find the link.

ETA: Found it. I understand that E.V. is Edwin's twin, mother to T.W., grandmother to S.K. It's quite possible this is a misquote by Newsweek or they missed this sister on the census as you suggested.

“We’ve got multiple generations involved here, and nobody in the family ever said anything,” says Edwards, who added that long ago the brothers also molested the elder sister of E.V., the family member the brothers drove into foster care. “In this line of work, there’s bad and there’s very bad. This one is very bad.”
BBM

http://www.newsweek.com/brothers-se...r censored*-murder-rape-kidnap-seattle-653692

 

[MzOpinion8d]

I am just curious how someone can be charged if they are under a guardianship.
I guess they have to fight to prove him incompetent?

IANAL but I think the charges can be placed no matter what. The issue will be competency to stand trial.

 

[Sanz]

I am surely not a psychiatrist not attorney.
But after reading the guidelines on a Mental Health Disability;
And a grave mental health didabilities. Standing trial is sure questionable. Western State Hospital houses criminals who can not stand trial.
WA ST Legislature Mental Disability

http://app.leg.wa.gov/rcw/default.aspx?cite=71.05

WA ST Determination of grave Mental Health Disability
*http://app.leg.wa.gov/RCW/default.aspx?cite=71.05.245


Sent from my SM-G935V using Tapatalk

 

[Lilibet]

IANAL but I think the charges can be placed no matter what. The issue will be competency to stand trial.

I am surely not a psychiatrist not attorney.
But after reading the guidelines on a Mental Health Disability;
And a grave mental health didabilities. Standing trial is sure questionable. Western State Hospital houses criminals who can not stand trial.
WA ST Legislature Mental Disability

http://app.leg.wa.gov/rcw/default.aspx?cite=71.05

WA ST Determination of grave Mental Health Disability
*http://app.leg.wa.gov/RCW/default.aspx?cite=71.05.245


Sent from my SM-G935V using Tapatalk

I agree that Charles will never be found competent to stand trial, nor would he be likely to understand any sentence imposed on him. He's mentally beyond the ability of the justice system to punish him. He might as well be housed in a locked down memory care facility at his own expense. Unfortunately, that will reduce any inheritance EV, TW or SK might eventually receive, but that would have been the case anyway if this case had never come to light.

Section 3 discusses competency and has a flow chart showing the steps taken.

https://www.dshs.wa.gov/sites/defau...al-System-Guide-to-Forensic-Mental-Health.pdf

This interesting article about a dangerous mentally ill defendant, shows the difficulty of handling these issues. This doesn't apply to Charles since he will never be competent, but the whole issue is so complicated.

http://www.thenewstribune.com/news/local/crime/article95468482.html

 

[MsFacetious]

IANAL but I think the charges can be placed no matter what. The issue will be competency to stand trial.

That's so sad. Not in this particular case (no sympathy here) but in others.
The elderly, dementia sufferers, cognitively disabled people... should not be tossed in jail with other people.

 

[watcher9]

You're probably right. I read it as an older sister, but it may have been referring to Edwin's twin as an older sister. The wording was confusing and I remember reading it over a couple of times to make sense of it. I wish I could find the link.

ETA: Found it. I understand that E.V. is Edwin's twin, mother to T.W., grandmother to S.K. It's quite possible this is a misquote by Newsweek or they missed this sister on the census as you suggested.

“We’ve got multiple generations involved here, and nobody in the family ever said anything,” says Edwards, who added that long ago the brothers also molested the elder sister of E.V., the family member the brothers drove into foster care. “In this line of work, there’s bad and there’s very bad. This one is very bad.”
BBM

http://www.newsweek.com/brothers-se...r censored*-murder-rape-kidnap-seattle-653692

Maybe the reason they didn't count the elder sister on the census was because she was sent away to foster care and was no longer in the home.

 

[Lilibet]

Maybe the reason they didn't count the elder sister on the census was because she was sent away to foster care and was no longer in the home.

But it was EV, Edwin's twin, who was sent to foster care. She was very young in 1940 and was counted on the census IIRC so it was before she left the home. I think the writer of the article in Newsweek made an error in speaking of an older sister of EV who was abused. Perhaps a younger sister born after 1940? Or a sister who was overlooked in the census somehow. Human error is possible. My husband was a census taker in 1970. They do their best, but mistakes are certainly possible.

 

[Lilibet]

What we do know is that the Emery brothers are bad people, no matter what group with which they were or were not affiliated. There is no evidence at this point that they belonged to any group other than their own perverted family. Time will tell if there is more to this than that.
JMO

 

[rsd1200]

But it was EV, Edwin's twin, who was sent to foster care. She was very young in 1940 and was counted on the census IIRC so it was before she left the home. I think the writer of the article in Newsweek made an error in speaking of an older sister of EV who was abused. Perhaps a younger sister born after 1940? Or a sister who was overlooked in the census somehow. Human error is possible. My husband was a census taker in 1970. They do their best, but mistakes are certainly possible.

I don't know if this is helpful, but, in the 1940 Census that I saw, it lists:

HWE (Father) 44
EE (Mother) 28
DE (Male) 9
JCE (Male) 5
TE (Male) 2
EE (Male) 1
EE (Female) 1

Living in [FONT=&quot]Capitol Hill, Mason, Washington and living there in 1935 as well, and they owned their own home.[/FONT]

 

[Lilibet]

I don't know if this is helpful, but, in the 1940 Census that I saw, it lists:

HWE (Father) 44
EE (Mother) 28
DE (Male) 9
JCE (Male) 5
TE (Male) 2
EE (Male) 1
EE (Female) 1

Living in [FONT=&amp]Capitol Hill, Mason, Washington and living there in 1935 as well, and they owned their own home.[/FONT]

Yes, that's very helpful. I don't see any way that the Newsweek article mentioning an older sister is possible. But a younger sister is possible if they had more than five children. I don't remember if they did, and a younger daughter wouldn't show up on a census until the 1950 census is released in 2020.

The approximately four year gap between DE and JCE is unusual for that time unless there were miscarriages. But there wouldn't be time for a sister to be born, be molested by a precocious DE and die before the 1940 census. So I still think it's safe to discount the Newsweek statement at this point.

 

[rsd1200]

Yes, that's very helpful. I don't see any way that the Newsweek article mentioning an older sister is possible. But a younger sister is possible if they had more than five children. I don't remember if they did, and a younger daughter wouldn't show up on a census until the 1950 census is released in 2020.

The approximately four year gap between DE and JCE is unusual for that time unless there were miscarriages. But there wouldn't be time for a sister to be born, be molested by a precocious DE and die before the 1940 census. So I still think it's safe to discount the Newsweek statement at this point.

We have one four year gap, and a three year gap. Miscarriage and still births would have still, likely, been common. Still births were not recorded, nor were early infant deaths, if they passed between census dates, and, babies who lived only a few weeks, some times didn't get a stone/funeral. Family's had to feed the living, and move forward. The census also does not include children born on, or after, April 1, of 1940. The census date was May 1, 1940, which had instructions as to how they were to list the age for each person.

DE was listed as nine as of his last birthday. He was born in 1931. The highest grade he'd completed was 2nd grade. (So, it appears he was in 3rd grade at the time of the census. I don't have an actual birth date for DE but, again, I'm gonna take a guess and say June was his birth month.)

JCE was born 10/15/34 and was not yet attending school, and as of the census date, he'd have been 5 1/2 years old.

TE was born 07/14/37 so he was very close to three years old, 2 years, 10 months, as of the census date.

The twins were born 11/17/38, so they were closer to 1 1/2 years old.



That kind of puts them closer together except for the first and second child. The parents were married on 24th of December, 1929. So she had DE within the first two years of their marriage. My guess is June of 1931. I agree with your theory on possible other children. There very well could have even been a failed pregnancy before the first child, a pregnancy after the first child, and another after the twins (if the child were born on or after April 1, 1940, they'd not have been included in the 1940 census. They'd show up as a five, or ten, year old one of the next census.). I'm a bit tired, I hope that all made some sort of sense.

 

[Laughing]

The census research presented makes sense to me, just another aging genealogist.

The gap can also mean that Dad found work in a more remote place, logging perhaps.

During this time frame and into the war years, other relatives living with the family could have been referred to as "sisters;" also these were Depression years, families with stability may have taken in another family's child with both altruistic & economic ideas: an older girl to help take care of the household work & all those kids.

Unfortunately with this group, any young lady in this situation is likely an early victim.

Thanks for checking the census records!

 

[watcher9]

I don't know if this is helpful, but, in the 1940 Census that I saw, it lists:

HWE (Father) 44
EE (Mother) 28
DE (Male) 9
JCE (Male) 5
TE (Male) 2
EE (Male) 1
EE (Female) 1

Living in [FONT="]Capitol Hill, Mason, Washington and living there in 1935 as well, and they owned their own home.[/FONT]

Also agreeing with others that your post is very helpful. Thank you.

Is this home one of the same houses they are investigating now?
If so, I would imagine that the brothers just continued to live there even after they were grown and whatever the parents had in the house was still there. Maybe that's why some of the older cars came to be there and maybe some of the stuff in the garage too?

 

[FlossyMay]

Seems a little off to me if they lived with their parents all their lives.

 

[Lilibet]

OT...Minor detail...Correcting my earlier comment that the 1950 census will be released in 2020, it will be 2022, 72 years after 1950. Disappointing to me as that's the first census I'll show up on. :waiting:
:HHJP:

https://www.cnet.com/news/the-census-broken-privacy-promise/

 

[rsd1200]

Also agreeing with others that your post is very helpful. Thank you.

Is this home one of the same houses they are investigating now?
If so, I would imagine that the brothers just continued to live there even after they were grown and whatever the parents had in the house was still there. Maybe that's why some of the older cars came to be there and maybe some of the stuff in the garage too?

No, I don't think so. This home was on Oakland Bay Road, in Capitol Hill Washington. I think that the family moved a couple years after, by 1942, to Shelton, WA.

 

[rsd1200]

Seems a little off to me if they lived with their parents all their lives.

The father died when the youngest was around 32 years old. The mother passed 17 years later. The one brother bought back the family home. I don't get the feeling that they all lived at home with the their parents. Idk though. There were twins, who lived up the road from me, who never left home, and never married. They lived together, in the same home that they were born in, until the day they died. When the first died, the other died shortly after. They didn't really have anything "wrong" with them but they were kinda what we call "backward". Pretty reclusive. The Es also kind of remind me of the Ward brothers in the documentary 'Brother's Keeper'. Not comparing either of them, in any way to the E brothers, other than the E brothers could have been "backward", growing up, and did live at home, and bought it back to be able to continue to live there. There may possibly have been some sort of generational thing going on too. The twins who lived near me never hurt anyone, and the Brother's Keeper documentary was very different circumstances than this case, but, there were three of them, and they were pretty reclusive.

 

[tlcya]

ADMIN NOTE: items presented as fact must be also be accompanied by supporting links from APPROVED sources MSM or LE. Speculation must also be supported by facts relating to THIS case. Some posts have been removed. They were outside these parameters. If your post was removed and you do not understand why please feel free to message me privately for clarification.

 

[Sanz]

No, I don't think so. This home was on Oakland Bay Road, in Capitol Hill Washington. I think that the family moved a couple years after, by 1942, to Shelton, WA.

Oakland Bay Road is located in Shelton, WA it is across Oakland Bay from the Shelton House located on Highway 3.
Capitol Hill is an area of Seattle, which is located a little over 3 miles from the Seattle House.
I hope this helps with the geographical locations of these two properties. I live in this area and realize how it may be confusing.

Sent from my SM-G935V using Tapatalk