WA - Amtrak passenger train derails near Tacoma

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PaulR said:
Also apparently this was new trackage according to @TransitSleuth.
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Yes that is what I've read from BBC news UK. First time this track was used. My Lord - all prayers and thoughts with those involved.
 
So sad.

Prayers for the victims.

I have ridden Amtrak passenger trains many years ago and I dont recall there being any seatbelts. I have to wonder if we are past time where it should be required that all buses and passenger trains have seat belts available for the people that want to wear them.
 
The derailment happened on a newly established Amtrak route aimed at adding more frequent, more reliable and faster service Seattle and Portland, part of an $800 million project called the Cascades High-Speed Rail Capital Program.

The new route, called the Point Defiance Bypass Project, was billed as an improvement over tracks that hugged the scenic Puget Sound but included tight curves and single-track tunnels around Point Defiance. The new route uses an existing rail line that runs along Interstate 5 from south Tacoma through Dupont before reconnecting with the main line.

The improvements also included a new Amtrak station in Tacoma.

https://www.nbcnews.com/news/us-news/amtrak-derailment-train-crashes-near-tacoma-washington-n830751
 
Hatfield said:
So sad.

Prayers for the victims.

I have ridden Amtrak passenger trains many years ago and I dont recall there being any seatbelts. I have to wonder if we are past time where it should be required that all buses and passenger trains have seat belts available for the people that want to wear them.
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Former NTSB director, Mary Schiavo, addressed this on CNN. She suggested that train passengers may soon be required to remain seated and use seatbelts if available.
 
Hatfield said:
So sad.

Prayers for the victims.

I have ridden Amtrak passenger trains many years ago and I dont recall there being any seatbelts. I have to wonder if we are past time where it should be required that all buses and passenger trains have seat belts available for the people that want to wear them.
Click to expand...

I dunno about trains on the west coast, but on the East Coast, the commuter trains, such as NJ Transit and Amtrak, as well as the NYC subways would never entertain the thought of having seat belts in all trains and buses (at least NJ Transit) force as many people onto the bus/train that can fit, including standees. Just because you get on a train or bus here, doesn't mean you get a seat.

Trains get so jam packed here that people have to stand in the vestibule between trains.
 
MelmothTheLost said:
Also from the Mail (caption under one of the photos):



http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/art...ls-highway-bridge-Washington-state-media.html
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Any train wreck is a tragedy, but it is especially sad it was the first voyage (if that's the right word!) for this train. I'm sure people were excited to be on it.

I travel by train on occasion and prefer it to traveling by air. I wish we had more trains in this country (USA), but I have to admit the high-speed trains scare me a bit.

Condolences to the families who lost loved ones today. :(

jmo
 
jessie said:
Yes that is what I've read from BBC news UK. First time this track was used. My Lord - all prayers and thoughts with those involved.
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Thats interesting it was the first time used. I am pretty sure they would have run test runs before letting the real train go through so wondering what went wrong.

Maybe they didnt test at the speed they should have. I heard where it was going roughly 80 mph or so. Thats pretty quick to be going around a curve. The curve did not look too sharp though but it makes you wonder if they tested at the speed they needed to for that curve.
 
Sad,

However,

This shows you how far America is behind other countries with technology. "High-Speed" train in America is 80-100MPH. Many other countries have trains going 300+MPH, and I can't recall one accident ever at those speeds
 
Hatfield said:
I have ridden Amtrak passenger trains many years ago and I dont recall there being any seatbelts. I have to wonder if we are past time where it should be required that all buses and passenger trains have seat belts available for the people that want to wear them.
Click to expand...

It's not always possible to retrofit effective seatbelts to existing vehicles/rolling stock.

Fitting lapbelts is the quickest, easiest and cheapest option, but in a head on collision the passenger is very likely to jack-knife forward with their face taking the impact with the seat in front, so it would be necessary to remove all the seats and reinstall them with wider spaces between the rows. Since seats are lost, this means ticket prices would have to rise.

The three-point seatbelt prevents the jack-knifing but seats in buses and coaches are not always bolted down strongly enough to withstand the force generated by several hundred pounds of passengers being thrown forward. If the seat fixings give way then passengers are likely to be more severely injured than they would be wthout the seatbelts in the first place. Again, the seats need to be removed and reinstalled with much stronger fixings.

Back in the 1980s and 1990s there were a number of major coach and raile crashes in the UK. At the time I worked for National Express (who now own Greyhound) so this debate was had in great detail.
 
MelmothTheLost said:
It's not always possible to retrofit effective seatbelts to existing vehicles/rolling stock.

Fitting lapbelts is the quickest, easiest and cheapest option, but in a head on collision the passenger is very likely to jack-knife forward with their face taking the impact with the seat in front, so it would be necessary to remove all the seats and reinstall them with wider spaces between the rows. Since seats are lost, this means ticket prices would have to rise.

The three-point seatbelt prevents the jack-knifing but seats in buses and coaches are not always bolted down strongly enough to withstand the force generated by several hundred pounds of passengers being thrown forward. If the seat fixings give way then passengers are likely to be more severely injured than they would be wthout the seatbelts in the first place. Again, the seats need to be removed and reinstalled with much stronger fixings.

Back in the 1980s and 1990s there were a number of major coach and raile crashes in the UK. At the time I worked for National Express (who now own Greyhound) so this debate was had in great detail.
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Thanks for this information and I agree with it that it would likely mean replacing or redoing the entire seats themselves.

I had to put a new seat belt in my car and I was surprised how hard it was to install one. I had to take the back seat out and find where the belt got bolted to the floor itself.

I agree that they would likely have to spend a lot of money replacing or redoing things if they want to properly install seat belts. It may be worth the cost though if they do it little by little. That would be the way to handle it. Have a requriement that X number of passenger trains per year need to be retrofitted and give the train companies X number of years to get them all done. That way they dont have to absorb all the cost at once.

I do remember myself thinking I would use a seat belt on the train if there was one and I dont think there was any the last time I rode Amtrack.
 
I just read this morning the recently published NTSB findings for the Amtrac wreck near Philadelphia last year. The report was absolutely scathing in its description of Amtrac's extremely lackadaisical attitude towards safety - at all levels of management.
 
JerseyGirl said:
I dunno about trains on the west coast, but on the East Coast, the commuter trains, such as NJ Transit and Amtrak, as well as the NYC subways would never entertain the thought of having seat belts in all trains and buses (at least NJ Transit) force as many people onto the bus/train that can fit, including standees. Just because you get on a train or bus here, doesn't mean you get a seat.

Trains get so jam packed here that people have to stand in the vestibule between trains.
Click to expand...

I agree that subways and rush hour commuting is a whole other issue.

The Amtrak passenger trains are quite a bit different than the subways. The seating on the Amtrak passengers were rather nice and had quite a bit of room. Subways is a whole different ballgame. The seating on subways was sideways and were more like long benches.

I also know what you mean about riding between the cars and how people stand and hang onto those arm things. In NYC it was common to see people moving from one car to another while the train was moving. I even had to do it a couple times and it is scary to get between the cars while its moving.

I think i remember signs that said nobody should ride the train between the cars but yeah if train is packed I am sure some do still.
 
Hatfield said:
Thanks for this information and I agree with it that it would likely mean replacing or redoing the entire seats themselves.

I had to put a new seat belt in my car and I was surprised how hard it was to install one. I had to take the back seat out and find where the belt got bolted to the floor itself.

I agree that they would likely have to spend a lot of money replacing or redoing things if they want to properly install seat belts. It may be worth the cost though if they do it little by little. That would be the way to handle it. Have a requriement that X number of passenger trains per year need to be retrofitted and give the train companies X number of years to get them all done. That way they dont have to absorb all the cost at once.

I do remember myself thinking I would use a seat belt on the train if there was one and I dont think there was any the last time I rode Amtrack.
Click to expand...

What I've heard is that unlike in car crashes where seatbelts truly save lives, that is not the case with most bus and train accidents. For one, I think there are far fewer bus and train accidents than car accidents. And, large vehicles like busses and trains don't get "as wrecked" as cars do. That's not the right way to explain it, but if you're in a bad car accident, the chances are good that you will be badly injured and a seatbelt can save your life. In a bus or train crash, the chances are good you won't necessarily be that badly injured. If you are in the place of direct impact, of course you will by hurt or killed - but a seatbelt wouldn't help you. Often the train or bus can absorb the impact and a seatbelt isn't needed.

I'm probably not explaining that well at all! But from my understanding, the cost and effort of installing seatbelts on those vehicles wouldn't necessarily result in saved lives, so they are not installed. (I do think they are on some long-distance busses as I think I've seen them on the Mega Bus, but not on regular city bus lines.)

jmopinion
 
Pickl said:
Sad,

However,

This shows you how far America is behind other countries with technology. "High-Speed" train in America is 80-100MPH. Many other countries have trains going 300+MPH, and I can't recall one accident ever at those speeds
Click to expand...

Those speeds are usually in rural areas (at least the train I was in Germany was in the middle of nothing), trains slow down around urban areas.

Also:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wenzhou_train_collision
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Eschede_derailment
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Santiago_de_Compostela_derailment
 
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