WA WA - Elma, AsianFem 25-40, 330UFWA, Sz6 pearl Avon ring, gold earring w/5 blue sapphires, Oct'88

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It's a very extensive road system. You can actually get to the location from three different roads. The road surface is crushed rock that Weyerhaeuser pays for. It is a huge company that owns millions of acres. The location is actually North of Elma. Fliers were sent everywhere I could think of, and we offered a $5,000 reward for the womans identity. The ring was stamped "Avon". The other earring may have been swallowed with the flesh by a coyote. I went to far as to collect and examine all of the scat I could find. I found a cool (for me) way to examine the scat or droppings. Place them in a tube sock and tie a knot at the top of the sock. Place the sock in another sock and tie a knot. Toss it into a washing machine and run it through a cycle. This removes all of the semi solids, and what you have left is a ball of fur, small creature bones etc. I know in some cases Police have found fingernails, human hair, and jewelry. All I found was animal parts. The hair on the clay reconstruction is similar to hair I found on the forest floor around the body.
 
wannabesleuthkk said:
do mushroom pickers wear gloves?
kk
Click to expand...
Most of the ones I encountered don't. There are different ways to harvest the mushrooms, and that is why there is friction between the different groups. If you use a knife and cut the mushroom, you leave some of the spore, so it can regenerate. Some groups also break up parts of the mushroom and scatter them. Many Asians will remove the entire mushroom, which will totally clean an area out. You wind up learning the oddest things when you work murder cases.
 
CCM, you've reflected on what you've found out there on multiple visits. as if ya'll got called out frequently. What was the typical nature of the calls that got you there, excluding finding Elma.??

thanks, kk
 
http://www.city-data.com/city/Elma-Washington.html

http://www.weyerhaeuser.com/

http://www.weyerhaeuser.com/environment/sustainability/

If you consider some of our theories, these sites may help us be more familiar with surroundings and people and culture. It may be as simple as local couple earing a living picking whatever, maybe also working partime in nearby stores,
mills, etc. He may have been also a truck driver around there. (i have an irreverent wife beater joke that i won't insert here.) I'm gonna do a little more looking around area, east Gray's Harbor county, see what i find.
The man, the killer, surely would have to have had knowledge of this area.
She however, may not have necessarily been from there if they weren't in any kinda longterm relationship.
I just wanted to get some data on area so my theories won't be a mere uneducated guess.
all for now,
kk
 
just fillin my brain with more stuff. Still looking for images for comparison. THis link led me to neat stuff and helped me see the differences in various asian communities in US. Fillipinos for instance, tend to be more 'scattered' throught communities as they tend not to cluster together in neighborhoos as do other Southeast Asians. Some of the ethnis groups though could be as inpenetrable as teh Native Amercian communities and will make it harder to get good info from them. Had you experienced that in the Elmaa communities, CMM? What do you see as the more prevelant asian americans groups in that county.? This link helps define the 3 main groups of Asians, including Indian Asians like from India and Pakistan. I'm hoping this will give us some ideas for other avenues to pursue that haven't been taken yet. Or maybe areas to re-canvas.
http://asianamerican.quickseek.com/

it's lonely in here today
think i'll nap
kk
 
I feel kinda pukey today :sick: . Last night I ate some b-b-Q'ed ribs from a local bar & grill, and it sure was delish but maybe too rich for my tummy! :boohoo:

You've been a busy girl Wannabe! I don't think it will be hard to ID Elma's nationality because her features are so striking. Close set together eyes and broad lower face and jaw. I have to see photos for that, as I don't know what people from Laos and Cambodia look like. My hairdresser is Vietnamese, and she is drop dead perfectly beautiful - all perfect features, so I can't use her even as a guide for Vietnamese.

I know part of the face with an eye socket must have been missing, so in reality her eyes might be a bit further apart. Not much though I think.


Scandi
 
Ooh, Scandi - they sell BBQ ribs in Portland? I'm in Texas right now and am thinking about getting some! Would be nice to know they're available when I get home to Oregon!

I was trying to find some info on the "Loren Scott" brand shirt. It must no longer be in business because all I could find was some eBay "vintage" shirts from the 70s. Interestingly, one was available in WA. I don't know if this info would have much bearing on the case, though, as it may have been a popular brand back in the day.

The woman's stature strikes me as Asian. I wonder if the Indian or Alaskan would have a similar bone structure? She was just so tiny that I picture her being Asian, esp with the flat shoes and earrrings that are likely of Asian origin.

It's so interesting, CCM, to hear how you and your colleagues leave no stone unturned when delving into a case. Who would think that investigators would put coyote droppings into the washing machine to look for evidence?!? It's absolutely fascinating!
 
i've gotta retype this as i just posted this on my other open thread. I'm not juggling well today.
anyway...Anne my idea is contacting seller of said 'vintage' shirt on ebay adn just inquire as to where they purchased it. Maybe that brand's exclusive to one chain in WA. It won't hurt to ask.
kk
 
http://www.american.edu/TED/mushroom.htm

i'm just full of all kindsa crap today huh?
besides unsolved mysteries, trivia is another love. I've won millions on Who Wants to BE.... right from my living room sofa. I swear. that's one reason i like reading this stuff. I guess i'm also discovering my own approach to investigating. Since i'm all the way across the country, my pc and my phone are my only tools for now. I like a lot of background as one could tell.
i like pics too. i guess i'm just hunting for clues at this point. Tell ya what, my dreams have been interesting.
some where in all this information is the answers to the truth.
any feedback is appreciated
kk
 
after reading that article i just posted, i learned that the majority of immigrant workers in the mushroom picking industry in WA are Cambodian and Mexican. This doesn't meant Elma is, but since i found that site i've just been browsing and here's what i've found. Two pics of Cambodian women.
Unfortunately too much had to be left to the imagination of teh artist in the clay work. I wonder if we can narrow it down to ethnic group, another bust could be done with what type of SE asian she may have been. I'm gonna try the lady at WSU again tomorrow. Maybe before i leave town i could arrange for her to receive fresh pics of Lyle and Elma for her advice. May just forward her contact info to you , CCM and let you send what you can and think she could work with. I'll see what i can do.
Does either of these pics resemble Elma to ya'll.
http://www.pbase.com/kissfoto/image/57058729
http://www.pbase.com/kissfoto/image/57058728
kk
 
annemc2 said:
It's so interesting, CCM, to hear how you and your colleagues leave no stone unturned when delving into a case. Who would think that investigators would put coyote droppings into the washing machine to look for evidence?!? It's absolutely fascinating!
Click to expand...
It was always interesting when I would come home from work and my wife would ask me "What did you do at work today?" Well.................
 
wannabesleuthkk said:
just fillin my brain with more stuff. Still looking for images for comparison. THis link led me to neat stuff and helped me see the differences in various asian communities in US. Fillipinos for instance, tend to be more 'scattered' throught communities as they tend not to cluster together in neighborhoos as do other Southeast Asians. Some of the ethnis groups though could be as inpenetrable as teh Native Amercian communities and will make it harder to get good info from them. Had you experienced that in the Elmaa communities, CMM? What do you see as the more prevelant asian americans groups in that county.? This link helps define the 3 main groups of Asians, including Indian Asians like from India and Pakistan. I'm hoping this will give us some ideas for other avenues to pursue that haven't been taken yet. Or maybe areas to re-canvas.
http://asianamerican.quickseek.com/

it's lonely in here today
think i'll nap
kk
Click to expand...
The Loren Scott brand was sold at K-Mart back in the 80's. IF the lady is Asian, and IF she was from Elma, she was probably Cambodian. Around 1988, there were a number of families (around 20) from Cambodia were living in Elma. When I attempted to contact those families around 1995, all but one family had moved out of the area. There were some people from Laos and Viet Nam living in Grays Harbor as well, but it was mostly Cambodians who lived in Elma.
 
Did you see the article re: mushrooms? CCM? it was very informative and mentioned the two unsolved from Oregon.
Besides in Elma, what other towns had higher numbers of SE asian. Montesano, Tacoma?

kk
 
are the records of INS issued temporary visas accessible or searchable?
They got lists of those whose visas have expired that they try to make contact with at last known address but could they be checked. Surely there's only about 100,000 or so.
kk
 
http://maps.google.com/maps?f=l&hl=...72,-123.314667&spn=0.384498,0.913239&t=h&om=1

I'm just thinking about what circles Elma would have traveled in. The largest Cambodian religion is Buddhism. If converted most se asians, i've noticed, chose catholicism. The Indian Asians have higher Islamic numbers.

Are there flea markets in the area, say at the fairgrounds where these individuals could sell harvest products at? Mushrooms, Salal, etc?
kk
 
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