WA - Unidentified Male: "Lyle Stevik", Grays Harbor, 17 Sept 2001 - #5

[LucyOso]

I feel that way too, but then I think about the kind of pain he must have been in and wonder if his family was looking for him or worried about him? Sometimes when people are suicidal and depressed they believe no one cares. Maybe he (and others) had people who did care but for one reason or another were unable to help him. They wanted to end their lives anonymously but we don't know if they were in their right minds - likely they were irrational and hurting.

I agree and sometimes they feel they are doing a favour to those around. Their perception gets very skewed. And in his case, if he had ongoing mental health issues it would have never been a decision about "leaving people behind" but more paranoia based or chaotic/disrupted thought-processes.

 

[LucyOso]

Here are the photos...

Valen Roy Hotomanie (looks like a much older school photo)-Wolf Point, MT -Missing since 1995 5'10" 145 lbs

View attachment 116118

Charles Trottier-Missing since 1997, Vancouver BC- 5'10" 193 lbs

View attachment 116119

 

[LucyOso]

What about if he was a killer or id he was murdered this in MHO changes the way i looked ay this case. Not in a bad or good way just changes it completely

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Those are good thoughts. It has been mentioned like this was him walking away and not being able to live with guilt or such in the past. We've discussed 9/11 links and other cultural situations where one would do the "right thing" by taking their own life. I know that sounds bad, but honour can be a big norm in many countries.

 

[Owutatangledweb]

For the first time today...I saw the photos of the scene. It changed a lot for me, how I am viewing this case. Several things struck me...one...his hair was perfect. I guess, from other experiences and in viewing those, the whole thing seemed very off for me. I also think some of the facial comparisons we are doing are not accounting for *GRAPHIC* the position of rest the belt was on his chin, leaving a divet and the angle of his face in death can cause, for lack of better term, almost a mini-face lift. It looked so staged to me. He definitely looked peaceful. My first thought was IK and his first Washington victims. That is neither here nor there...

Given he covered his identity...and we have theories that he was an overstayer in the country and wanted to cut all ties with family. We could be looking at mental health issues as well. Someone who slipped through the cracks, just kept moving, and hiding his identity was more paranoia or a huge piece of mental illness, and not like LEK or something.

There are two profiles of people that may have been looked at and discarded here, but I would like to link them for thoughts and ideas.

http://missingpersonsdata.com/usa/Montana/missing-recent/case-details/23715 VALEN ROY HOTOMANIE

http://cfapp.vancouver.ca/MissingPersons_wac/MissingPersons.exe CHARLES TROTTIER

For some reason my Websleuths page is coming up strange, so I can't post the pictures....

I agree that Charles trottier is a good possibility.

 

[Brainy]

[video=youtube;p7yeDiSY8t4]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=p7yeDiSY8t4[/video]

I have seen this one. Kudos to the guy making the video. Unfortunately, those who very familiar with the case, there wasn't anything new. However, it is a good way to draw new eyes to this case!


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[Brainy]

What about if he was a killer or id he was murdered this in MHO changes the way i looked ay this case. Not in a bad or good way just changes it completely

Enviado desde mi ALE-L21 mediante Tapatalk

No evidence that he was killed or if there was a perpetrator. What makes you believe he might have been a killer? If you believe that, you must base it on something. If that's just a wild idea, we all know that the nature of this case lavishly allows the flexibility of that.


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[mrseeker]

What about if he was a killer or id he was murdered this in MHO changes the way i looked ay this case. Not in a bad or good way just changes it completely

Enviado desde mi ALE-L21 mediante Tapatalk

As far as he being a murderer, its possible he was on the run for committing a crime. He might have killed himself to avoid the consequences or out of guilt. As far as he being murdered, there are a few things pointing away from that. First no sign of a struggle, or trauma other than the hanging. Not likely you could hang someone as he was hung if he were awake. No evidence anyone else was in the room. The money was left with a note that appeared to be his handwriting, and the note with the word suicide found in the trash matched. But the biggest thing i noted pointing away from murder was he inserted a towel under his chin to protect his neck from the buckle and pinching. A murderer would not care nor think of making it comfortable.

 

[Buttons]

Don't mind me, just checking in to share this with you all. There's been a lot of talk about the possibility that Lyle may have been a criminal in light of the recent YouTube comment and the investigation apparently being considered a criminal one, however, it would seem that there have been no developments of that nature recently. If Lyle was involved in anything untoward, his fingerprints are not in any database as a result. Of course, this does not rule out any criminal activity that was not reported to police but that seems unlikely to me.


Mr. Youmans said this of the matter today:

Not to my knowledge. When I left the Sheriff's Dept. in 2006, the manner of death was ruled suicide. If Lyle was a criminal, his prints aren't on file with the FBI or RCMP. I submitted the fingerprint card to the FBI to run through AFIS twice with no match.

 

[Buttons]

No evidence that he was killed or if there was a perpetrator. What makes you believe he might have been a killer? If you believe that, you must base it on something. If that's just a wild idea, we all know that the nature of this case lavishly allows the flexibility of that.


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The Lori Ruff case comes to mind. So many were convinced that she was a spy or hiding a dark secret when in fact she was a young runaway who wasn't reported missing because she left voluntarily and didn't want to be found.

The answers to all of the questions we have about Lyle are probably more mundane than is speculated, although that doesn't make them any less tragic.

 

[Brainy]

Don't mind me, just checking in to share this with you all. There's been a lot of talk about the possibility that Lyle may have been a criminal in light of the recent YouTube comment and the investigation apparently being considered a criminal one, however, it would seem that there have been no developments of that nature recently. If Lyle was involved in anything untoward, his fingerprints are not in any database as a result. Of course, this does not rule out any criminal activity that was not reported to police but that seems unlikely to me.


Mr. Youmans said this of the matter today:

Not to my knowledge. When I left the Sheriff's Dept. in 2006, the manner of death was ruled suicide. If Lyle was a criminal, his prints aren't on file with the FBI or RCMP. I submitted the fingerprint card to the FBI to run through AFIS twice with no match.

Yes, that is nothing new and that has been discussed over and over. Mr. Youmans mentions that explicitly in his report. There is absolutely no evidence whatsoever to support that Lyle was a criminal. The fact that his fingerprints aren't on file only substantiates that.


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[Brainy]

The Lori Ruff case comes to mind. So many were convinced that she was a spy or hiding a dark secret when in fact she was a young runaway who wasn't reported missing because she left voluntarily and didn't want to be found.

The answers to all of the questions we have about Lyle are probably more mundane than is speculated, although that doesn't make them any less tragic.

Buttons, you can find many answers to you questions if you go back a couple of pages in this thread,... I mentioned how people love taunting with outrageous and over the top ideas to entertain their imagination.... A couple of pages back you can also see us all discussing that Lyle was very likely running away from himself. People want everything to sound like a James Bond movie when in reality people carry massive amounts of pain and life is very real, lack of criminal luster that we so want to see in people.


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[Bill_Rodgers99]

I've been following the recent scuttlebutt on Reddit. I understand that Lyle's prints were run twice through AFIS. However, AFIS wasn't initiated until 1999: https://web.archive.org/web/2012092...-us/cjis/fingerprints_biometrics/iafis/iafis/

I understand that most, but not all, of LE agencies contribute to AFIS. I've also read that the vast majority of older prints were added into the system. However, I do believe there were some agencies (namely tribal police in some areas) that did NOT submit fingerprint records to AFIS. Meaning that Lyle could have been arrested and printed with his prints never having been on record.

Does anyone has a list of tribal agencies that did not contribute to AFIS from between 1999 and September of 2001?

 

[Brainy]

I've been following the recent scuttlebutt on Reddit. I understand that Lyle's prints were run twice through AFIS. However, AFIS wasn't initiated until 1999: https://web.archive.org/web/2012092...-us/cjis/fingerprints_biometrics/iafis/iafis/

I understand that most, but not all, of LE agencies contribute to AFIS. I've also read that the vast majority of older prints were added into the system. However, I do believe there were some agencies (namely tribal police in some areas) that did NOT submit fingerprint records to AFIS. Meaning that Lyle could have been arrested and printed with his prints never having been on record.

Does anyone has a list of tribal agencies that did not contribute to AFIS from between 1999 and September of 2001?

There is the possibility of that, but that is very unlikely. With time, the system has become even more uniform and universal. Even if the prints weren't added at one time, the chances are that they are now part of the system. Also, by the late 1990's fingerprint submission was a very common practice and definitely not something that was just starting to develop.

Also, don't forget that Lyle's DNA is also available and there were no matches of that either. It was run through CODIS which stores many different levels of DNA profiles and data.

My point is, it is very unlikely that there is any record of his fingerprints anywhere due to the fact that he had not been involved in any crime. Is this in the realm of all the possibilities? Sure. Do I believe he was a criminal on the run? No.


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[Brainy]

I think we're all looking in the wrong place to find answers. The puzzle is even more difficult as Lyle practiced a good deal of determination and care to conceal his identity. None of his belongings were found. He clearly wasn't from Amanda Park or anywhere nearby. He must have had a bag and other items with him. I have heard lots of theories that he could have dumped his stuff in a lake. That is probably close to what really happened. With personal items lost, we do have the biggest hope -- his face, his DNA and fingerprints. Typically, with so much information available, there is hope that someone may come forward to recognize Lyle. There have been many other unidentified people who have been identified on far fewer available details. There is hope. Personally, it is frustrating to me as the detective involved in this case has been quiet and unresponsive to my suggestions and research that I dedicated to make some information straight.

I don't know where to look. I certainly do not want to give up. I think about this case a lot. Sometimes I have certain impressions that allow me think in a new way but I also realize that my perspective can turn stale due to my direct and consistent focus. To keep this fresh, I focus on one aspect at one time and then redirect my attention elsewhere to revisit this with a clearer mind.

Some thoughts...

If he went to Amanda Park for suicide, why did he stay at the motel for a few days and then commit suicide? Was he waiting on someone or something? Considering that he was very determined, why wait a few days? I don't believe that Amanda Park was a random location. Something brought Lyle to this place. He had either been there before or something made him go there. Whatever the reason, I don't believe he arrived there randomly.

Why to get rid if his belongings? He already provided the wrong name and had no ID on him, why go to any length to dispose of personal items? If you're dead and your face is recognizable then that is one major thing providing clues about your identity. Many personal items aren't even identifiable and can be easily lost. If he put his backpack in a garbage can 20 miles from the motel, then it is lost forever. Such thing would not be a personal identifying piece of evidence unless somebody knew who Lyle was and what he carried in particular.

If he didn't want to be identified, he could have committed suicide somewhere remote and isolated where he is less likely to be found, right? I know we have talked extensively about this, how was "clean" and might have desired a proper burial. Although, being found in a motel would certainly necessitate investigation by the LE in efforts to find out who he is and where he comes from. That is only natural. I do not believe Lyle thought that the LE would go to such extent to identify him but I do believe that he did all he could to exit this world with complete anonymity. What remains interesting is... He did all he could, but he surely didn't have control over who may cone forward to recognize him/ claim his body/ etc.

About his background... I am still heavily leaning towards the theory the he was a Native American man. He might or might have not been part of a tribe. I think He probably grew up in a conservative, isolated environment with little "outside" exposure, this could explain why he continues remaining unidentified as no one comes forward to know him. My speculation is that he might have grown up in a tribe and then left the life he knew as he recognized that he is contending with issues and he sought isolation to move from his pain and depression. He was likely alienated from any family. He probably went to college at some point and held decent jobs and moved around quite a bit. Perhaps his depression deepened further fueled by difficult life circumstances and he decided to go away yet again. I suppose that he had been thinking of committing suicide for quite some time at that point. He packed his stuff and landed in Amanda Park. He carefully got rid of everything... His name and his belongings, and then killed himself. It was perhaps his way of exiting and thinking that nobody ever knew him closely or cared about him.

...

Too many thoughts, way too many questions... Keep pondering and praying for closur.



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[WyomingSkyAngel]

The new developments in the case make me think that Lyle was definitely involved in drugs and/or "fringe" relationships. Regarding the strangeness of his suicide I think if he was convinced he had done something bad in a drug/alcohol-induced blackout he might have convinced himself that he needed to "ritualistically" kill himself.

There's a reason people are warned away from heavy drug and alcohol abuse- serious mental changes can occur. Lyle might have just been a victim of his own demons.

& FWIW it's possible for a young male to have the kind of emaciated appearance he had from long term alcoholism. Another side effect of heavy drinking is deep depressive periods.

 

[Lesetoiles]

Possible match for Lyle? Not officially reported missing, the resemblance is very good, please take a look... I wrote about here:
https://www.reddit.com/r/lylestevik/comments/6a2te7/possible_match_for_lyle_stevik/

 

[Brainy]

The new developments in the case make me think that Lyle was definitely involved in drugs and/or "fringe" relationships. Regarding the strangeness of his suicide I think if he was convinced he had done something bad in a drug/alcohol-induced blackout he might have convinced himself that he needed to "ritualistically" kill himself.

There's a reason people are warned away from heavy drug and alcohol abuse- serious mental changes can occur. Lyle might have just been a victim of his own demons.

& FWIW it's possible for a young male to have the kind of emaciated appearance he had from long term alcoholism. Another side effect of heavy drinking is deep depressive periods.

Why? Because it has been labeled a "criminal investigation"? That doesn't really mean anything. LE may be suspecting something and may be looking into it, that doesn't necessarily mean anything or even indicate that Lyle was a criminal.

I am a medical professional and Lyle does not strike me as someone who was going through withdrawal. Nothing was found in his system. Considering that many drugs can be found in your system days and weeks after being taken, I only conclude that Lyle was not a drug user as no drugs were found in his system. There would be numerous other identifying markers that could indicate if he was a heavy drug user. He looked healthy, and autopsy concluded that no abnormalities were found.

I do not believe that Lyle committed suicide and that it was related to drug withdrawal. That is a wild speculation and there is absolutely no evidence indicating that. Also, his meticulous planning and his cleanliness are not consistent with the behavior of an addict. He certainly doesn't strike me as impulsive or abrupt in his decision making.


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[Brainy]

Possible match for Lyle? Not officially reported missing, the resemblance is very good, please take a look... I wrote about here:
https://www.reddit.com/r/lylestevik/comments/6a2te7/possible_match_for_lyle_stevik/

Interesting find. Do you know anything else about this person/ family?


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[Brainy]

Also, the theory of his weight loss is just mere speculation. To some he may look emaciated, but in reality, he may have just been naturally thin. Some people have that kind of body type and what others see as abnormal, unhealthy and too thin may be their normal.


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[Lesetoiles]

The Lori Ruff case comes to mind. So many were convinced that she was a spy or hiding a dark secret when in fact she was a young runaway who wasn't reported missing because she left voluntarily and didn't want to be found.

The answers to all of the questions we have about Lyle are probably more mundane than is speculated, although that doesn't make them any less tragic.

^I think this is accurate and important to remember. I dont think he wasn't reported missing.

The man I found was posted on a missing person's journalist's facebook page that has 500k likes. However, the post is just one of many with less than 1000 likes/shares. Carlos wasn't reported missing in the USA at least from what I found. Perhaps he felt disillusioned and depressed about not finding work in the states and killed himself? It could be anything and likely not criminal. In the post, the sister of the man says he went to the US to find a better life.

I haven't found out much else besides what I wrote on reddit. Seeing the pictures of his young male relatives have almost convinced me this is a match. The physical similarities are unmistakable. Along with the date the sister says he went missing in the post. (Sept 12, 2001) -- a mere 4 days before Lyle died. However one facebook comment by a supposed friend of Carlos contradicts this so we don't know if the last seen date is accurate or not.

Pictures:

http://imgur.com/a/teyt0

http://imgur.com/a/8IvlO