Was Burke Involved ? # 3

[TeaTime]

What if the "intruder" was already IN the house when the family got home that night? What IF the note was written while the family was at the White's? What IF it was a person who already knew Jonbenet? So when this person appeared beside her bed, she willing went with them. JR readily admitted that sometimes doors weren't locked or doors were open when he woke in the morning. So staging did happen. By the person who was there for several hours before the family even got home did it...... Just adding something different... The basement window was just a stage. The luggage was just a stage. The intruders left by the front door after he/she accomplished what they came to accomplish. Killing that beautiful baby girl. Not committing to this, just asking how this wasn't considered?

There was no intruder. The intruder theory is a myth, made out of the imagination of PR and JR, supported by Lou Smit, the only detective who comes up with a theory and then 'finds" evidence to support it.

Start with the fact that Burke owned a pair of HiTech hiking boots and was heard by the dispatcher on the 911 call, then ask yourself whey the Rs lied about these things for decades, up and into the DP show, then we'll talk intruder theory in agonizing detail again.

This CBS special nailed this case shut. Burke did it and the parents conspired to cover it up.

 

[TeaTime]

I heard PR say "how could you do this", 5 syllables.

 

[BBB167893]

A couple conclusions drawn in the CBS special that I don't totally agree with.

One is that they sat Patsy served Burke the fruit because her prints were on the bowl. But I feel like it's also possible that perhaps her prints were ther because perhaps she was the one who had last emptied the dishwasher and put the bowl away in the cabinet. Then Burkes were on it because he served himself the fruit. Just another possibility anyway.

Could be right.

Also the idea that he fought with her because she stole a piece of pineapple doesn't quite make sense to me either. If he hit her right after she stole the pineapple, then I think pineapple would have been found in her stomach, rather then in her small intestines. The fact the pineapple was even partly digested makes me think there was more time btw eating the pineapple and getting a likely fatal blow to the head.

Well, I'm not totally sold on the idea that BDI, but I'd like to get everyone's take on this: what if she did it once, and he told her not to, then she did it again?

I think a potential theory could be that Burke and his dad had a thing were he would put him to bed and use a flashlight and Burke maybe liked to sleep with the flashlight by his bed.

I think when he thought everyone was asleep he used the flashlight to sneak downstairs and okay with his toy. I think while he was playing he probably got hungry, so he made himself a snack.

Perhaps while he's eating his snack JBR comes down stairs and wants him to make her a snack too. He doesn't want to make her one, and doesn't want to share his but she keeps begging. Maybe he finally concedes and gives her some, or she takes some, or perhaps he says something like "I'll give you some if we go downstairs and play doctor"

Then perhaps they are playing downstairs when something happens and he ends up hitting her ?

I dunno just speculation.

Pretty awful scenario, but not outside possibility. I'm not sure I'm sold on it, though.

 

[Linda7NJ]

I think a parent FOUND JonBenet naked from the waist down w/ the handle inserted. That's why they cleaned her up, redressed her, staged the garrote to use it as part of the crime scene

They didn't want anyone to see her that way, or anyone to know what Burke did to her.




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[BBB167893]

What if the "intruder" was already IN the house when the family got home that night? What IF the note was written while the family was at the White's? What IF it was a person who already knew Jonbenet? So when this person appeared beside her bed, she willing went with them. JR readily admitted that sometimes doors weren't locked or doors were open when he woke in the morning. So staging did happen. By the person who was there for several hours before the family even got home did it...... Just adding something different... The basement window was just a stage. The luggage was just a stage. The intruders left by the front door after he/she accomplished what they came to accomplish. Killing that beautiful baby girl. Not committing to this, just asking how this wasn't considered?

Not considered by the CBS show? Or by the police in general? Because for a long time, that was the dominant thinking in the DA's office, plus or minus a few details.

 

[BBB167893]

Problem here is that JR supposedly said, " We're not speaking to you!" Before the supposed question from Burke. "What did you find?" A reminder here!!!!! NONE of this is evidence! It is ALL speculation as to what other people thought they heard on that tape.

Speculation? "Speculation," my eye! I know what I heard!

 

[Leomoon80]

Sorry, I got the order confused. I still think the same thought applies. Burke has been told they are not speaking to him anymore, but he can't wrap his mind around what Patsy just said on the phone so he's asks what they found. And yes, it is all speculation. But after listening to the tape I don't think anyone can deny there were different voices at the end of that call.

The 911 operator thought the Grand Jury would call her to testify and offer what she know she heard. Yet no one questioned her, no one interviewed her, and the meeting with the new (CBS team) was the first time in 20 years she was able to tell everyone what she believes she clearly heard when P.R. thought she'd hung up the telephone but had not.

 

[HarmonyE.]

The 911 operator thought the Grand Jury would call her to testify and offer what she know she heard. Yet no one questioned her, no one interviewed her, and the meeting with the new (CBS team) was the first time in 20 years she was able to tell everyone what she believes she clearly heard when P.R. thought she'd hung up the telephone but had not.

And yet the Grand Jury still got it right - even after hearing from Lou Smit.

One has to wonder if Burke's testimony played a role in their conclusions.

 

[Roxye]

Speculation? "Speculation," my eye! I know what I heard!

This reminds me of the "Ghost shows".... "[FONT=Libre Baskerville, Georgia, Times, Times New Roman, serif]Microphones capture ambient sounds during the investigation" [/FONT]

This was a group of people manipulating sound, A patch of 6 seconds. AGAIN 6 seconds. Even in those 6 seconds, some of the group think PR said, "Help me Jesus, help me Jesus." Not "What did you do?" Even the "What did you find?" Is speculative. You heard what they wanted you to hear. There is NO way to prove that these statements were actually made during that 6 seconds, MOO

 

[x_files]

My mind is not entirely made up, but I am leaning towards BDI. I'm trying not to form an opinion until I see part 3 (or have caught up to all the theories of the case) but the ransom note is nagging the back of my mind.

Burke has never read the ransom note. Other people have expressed concern about this and I agree with them. There is no reason to NOT read the ransom note, especially when your entire family has been accused of writing it.

Burke's reaction to the question about whether it's Patsy's handwriting is strange. The first thing he says is that his mother reminded him to be neater with his handwriting. Maybe because it's his handwriting?

Patsy's handwriting was never entirely ruled out. Is it because handwriting of parents and children can be similar?

http://www.ijcer.org/index.php/ojs/article/viewFile/685/299

I also found a post here on websleuths that Burke has only ever used a typewriter after his sister's death:

http://www.websleuths.com/forums/sh...handwriting-(and-Burke-s)&p=546143#post546143

If this is true - and I'm assuming that it would be since this forum has high standards of posting - all of this taken into context is very damning indeed.

I have read the ransom note quite a few times. I always found the "don't try and grow a brain" sentence to be a rather juvenile thing to say. Also how it seems to resemble a child mimicking in movies what they have seen/heard before (the Danny Devito clip). The ransom amount of 118000$ is chump change compared to the news story run about the Ramsey's making over 10 billion in sales. I don't consider it outside the realm of possibility that Burke (or even some other child) might have overheard P&JR talking about the Christmas bonus and put it in the letter.

I don't know, I'm still open minded to the possibility of an intruder because of the news stories and Patsy admitting she had hundreds of people tromping through her house in the days before Christmas. It's safe to say that the police botched the job and have only ever been fixated on Patsy to the exclusion of all other possibilities. However I really am leaning towards BDI because he admits to going downstairs and pineapple is found in JBR's stomach. I can't ignore these things.

Just my own opinion, as always.

If Burke wrote the note after striking JBR on the head, was he trying to scare his parents? Get their attention? interesting.

 

[TheOtherChristina]

This reminds me of the "Ghost shows".... "[FONT=Libre Baskerville, Georgia, Times, Times New Roman, serif]Microphones capture ambient sounds during the investigation" [/FONT]

This was a group of people manipulating sound, A patch of 6 seconds. AGAIN 6 seconds. Even in those 6 seconds, some of the group think PR said, "Help me Jesus, help me Jesus." Not "What did you do?" Even the "What did you find?" Is speculative. You heard what they wanted you to hear. There is NO way to prove that these statements were actually made during that 6 seconds, MOO

I'm not entirely sold on the leading interpretations of the enhanced 911 call, but that doesn't obviate its evidentiary value. It's no more speculative than your average eyewitness testimony. There's no such thing as evidence that isn't filtered through the lens of interpretation in some way or another. It may not be a smoking gun, but it has its place in the totality of the evidence, which, IMO, is deeply compelling.

 

[Roxye]

If Burke wrote the note after striking JBR on the head, was he trying to scare his parents? Get their attention? interesting.

Seriously? There is no way a 9 year old that wrote note.

 

[BBB167893]

This reminds me of the "Ghost shows".... "[FONT=Libre Baskerville, Georgia, Times, Times New Roman, serif]Microphones capture ambient sounds during the investigation" [/FONT]

This was a group of people manipulating sound, A patch of 6 seconds. AGAIN 6 seconds. Even in those 6 seconds, some of the group think PR said, "Help me Jesus, help me Jesus." Not "What did you do?" Even the "What did you find?" Is speculative. You heard what they wanted you to hear. There is NO way to prove that these statements were actually made during that 6 seconds, MOO

Oh, now it was fake? Get real.

Actually, there may be a way to prove it. I was thinking about this as I watched it. The police must have samples of John's, Patsy's and Burke's voices on file somewhere. What about voiceprint analysis?

 

[Roxye]

I'm not entirely sold on the leading interpretations of the enhanced 911 call, but that doesn't obviate its evidentiary value. It's no more speculative than your average eyewitness testimony. There's no such thing as evidence that isn't filtered through the lens of interpretation in some way or another. It may not be a smoking gun, but it has its place in the totality of the evidence, which, IMO, is deeply compelling.

Compelling yes, but still not hard evidence, There were simpler ways to cover up an accident if it occurred.

 

[Roxye]

Oh, now it was fake? Get real.

Actually, there may be a way to prove it. I was thinking about this as I watched it. The police must have samples of John's, Patsy's and Burke's voices on file somewhere. What about voiceprint analysis?

I didn't say it was fake. I said it was manipulated. Yes, I agree, voiceprint analysis would put an end to this debate.

 

[TheOtherChristina]

Compelling yes, but still not hard evidence, There were simpler ways to cover up an accident if it occurred.

No, it's not hard evidence, but what is? Even scientific analysis is subject to interpretation. The very concept of bulletproof evidence is somewhat spurious.

On its own, the enhanced 911 call is virtually worthless. In the context of the avalanche of evidence in this case, it points squarely back at the family.

 

[BBB167893]

I didn't say it was fake. I said it was manipulated. Yes, I agree, voiceprint analysis would put an end to this debate.

So, the questions now:

-can they be done? (Taking into account if the police have voice samples and how much, if at all, they could match to the audio here.)

-will they do it?

 

[otg]

(bbm)

And yet the Grand Jury still got it right - even after hearing from Lou Smit.

One has to wonder if Burke's testimony played a role in their conclusions.

The GJ's term was for 12 months. Before it ended, since they hadn't completed their investigation, it was extended for (I think) another 6 months. I believe Burke was the last (or at least one of the last) "witnesses" called to testify right after the extension began. It was right after his testimony (I'd have to look up how long) that they wrapped it up and had several short intermittent sessions, presumably to vote on the true bills prepared by Mike Kane and complete their work.

I can't say these circumstances are proof of their conclusions, but I've often wondered (even before we knew about the true bills) if what you suggest was actually what happened.

 

[fedfan4life]

I think he was thinking #what the hell is the pineapple to do with my sister dying#

Please. He knows good-and-well the significance of the pineapple. This young man is not an idiot.

 

[fedfan4life]

This reminds me of the "Ghost shows".... "[FONT=Libre Baskerville, Georgia, Times, Times New Roman, serif]Microphones capture ambient sounds during the investigation" [/FONT]

This was a group of people manipulating sound, A patch of 6 seconds. AGAIN 6 seconds. Even in those 6 seconds, some of the group think PR said, "Help me Jesus, help me Jesus." Not "What did you do?" Even the "What did you find?" Is speculative. You heard what they wanted you to hear. There is NO way to prove that these statements were actually made during that 6 seconds, MOO

No, this was a group of highly-specialized investigators who consulted with the folks who had the applicable technology and training to enhance the recording. You may not want to believe what you don't want to believe, but do not insult these professionals by comparing them to paranormal wackadoos.